Automation Control of Multiple Centralite Systems

[kayemsi]

We are currently installing a Centralite litejet (LJ) system that will consist of a LJ48 (2 LJ24 connected together) for downstairs and a LJ24 for upstairs. The LJ48 will be connected to one serial port on an automation panel (Omni Pro II or ELK M1 Gold) and the LJ24 will also be connected to a different serial port. In this way we are hoping that the Omni or ELK will allow us to create some whole house scenes (all on / all off / party for example) that involve executing individual scenes in each LJ House code at the same time.

Our installer was told by Centralite (before the purchase) that this was doable with an Omni. However I have been told (in response to a post on Worthington's forum) that this was not possible and the Omni would only support a single Centralite system. The installer has since checked with HAI and was told that the two systems could be hooked up to the Omni, but the issue would be that each would say it was "Identity 1", so if we commanded unit 3 to turn off, load 3 on both systems would turn off. One of the Centralite systems would have to report it was Identity 2 (for instance). He is going to check with Centralite about this.

I wanted to check here to see if any one can confrim this about the Omni or could tell me if this is possible with an ELK. Or would the ELK have the same problem?

I want the security panel to be able to turn on all the lights to a reasonable level in an emergency, or flash lights for a breakin, that kind of thing. The basic lighting scenes would be programmed into the individual LJ.

Basically I want to use touch screens via CQC for some top level control of the lighting via the Omni or ELK as CQC doesn't have a driver for Centralite directly. I want to be able to get and set the on/off status of light thru CQC and command LJ scenes.

Any insight or suggestions?

 

[ctay]

I'm really interested in the answer to this. Our 48 load system is really streched to its maximum so another 24 loads would make wiring a lot easier...

Chris

 

[rocco]

This is my understanding of how it would work with the Elk. No guarantee that it is correct, but I'm sure Spanky or Wayne or E can correct my Elk mistakes.

The LiteJet-48 will act as one system, and the LiteJet-24 will act as a separate, autonomous system. So your automation controller needs to control them both individually.

It appears that the Omni controls the lights based on what the device reports itself to be, not based on where it is connected, hence the conflict when you have two LiteJet systems reporting that they are the same thing.

With the Elk, you need to install a serial-expander for each LiteJet system. Each serial-expander has its own address, and assigns the lighting circuits based on that address. So the Elk should support two LiteJet systems in much the same way as it supports both ZWave on one serial-expander and Insteon on another.

Keep in mind that the Elk still has to control both systems individually, but that should be transparent to your rules.
------------
Side thought: Wow, 72 loads !

On my remodel, I fit everything on a LiteJet-24. I must be doing something wrong.

 

[brotsten]

Side thought: Wow, 72 loads !

On my remodel, I fit everything on a LiteJet-24. I must be doing something wrong.

You must be. I ran out with 96 loads and had to augment with UPB

You need to post your plans and let us tell you how to spend your money to up you load count!

Brian

 

[kayemsi]

As an update on this issue: My installer has several discussions with people at HAI and Centralite and it comes down to the fact that the LiteJets are all hardwired to be configured as "Identity 1" on serial. Also the HAI's serial ports are all looped together. So that even though the individual LJ systems are connected to separate serial ports on the Omni, they are all Identity 1 and when the command to turn on unit 3 goes to one of them they both get the same message and load 3 on both systems turns on.

Centralite says it would require a firmware change to allow the Identity to be configured (which of course they don't plan to do) OR HAI would have to completely independant serial ports (which they don't plan to do).

Does any one know if the ELK would have this issue as well?

My options are
1) to upgrade the 3 LJ24's I already have to an Elegance (probably $$$, trying to get a cost for this)

2) a kludge by which I would connect the LJ 24 to the LJ48 and connect the LJ48 to the HAI. I could program the LJ48 to send certain scene commands (All on/ All off, Party, etc) out it's 3rd Party port to the relatively independent LJ24 to act on. In this setup the HAI and therefore CQC would only know about the LJ48 and not the other loads on the LJ24. The LJ 48 would not even know any thing about the status of the LJ24's loads

3) Find out if I could use an ELK instead if it has indepenent serial ports

4) Write a CQC driver for Centralite to control them directly by independent serial ports. Would I have to use 2 different CQC server PCs, or would different instances of the new driver on one PC be able to talk independently to devices with the same "Identity"?

Any ideas?

EDIT: I was editing this while for a while and missed the rocco's helpful comments. THanks, I have asked my installer to check into using an ELK instead to confirm this will work.

 

[WayneW]

With the Elk, you need to install a serial-expander for each LiteJet system. Each serial-expander has its own address, and assigns the lighting circuits based on that address. So the Elk should support two LiteJet systems in much the same way as it supports both ZWave on one serial-expander and Insteon on another.

disclaimer: I am not a LiteJet expert or even a UPB expert.

I am not sure this will work the way you intended. My understanding is that Elk treats the two serial expanders of the same interface type as redundant. So both LiteJets would get the same commands. Some have apparently used this to their advantage to have one UPB interface in the main house and one interface in an out building.

On the other hand, Elk maps all devices, regardless of their interface type to a 1-255 scheme (aka A1-P16 in X-10 lingo). If Centralite lets you map the first 64 loads as 1-64 and the second as 65-128, then this might work. I think that when you try to control light 57, the command goes to both Elk serial interfaces and to both LiteJet panels, where one uses the command and one ignores the command?

 

[rocco]

I am not sure this will work the way you intended. My understanding is that Elk treats the two serial expanders of the same interface type as redundant. So both LiteJets would get the same commands.

Ahh, then it would work similar to the Omni . . . not good. So, like the Omni, UPB and ZWave work together because they are different interfaces, not because they have different serial-expanders. darn.

Elk should fix this.

The load numbers on a LiteJet can not be changed (example: On a LiteJet-24, load 25 is always a fan-speed controller on Aux-1, whether it exists there or not). So load numbers will conflict between the two LiteJets.

However, scenes and their numbers are programmed by the user, so they can be programmed to not conflict. Also, they can be programmed such that the scenes on both LiteJets operate in concert. This will be true with the Omni, as well.

So I think the problem can be circumvented by exclusively using scenes. I'm not sure how practical that is, however.

 

[Spanky]

This is the word from the Centralite Guru. Litejet has a limit of 48 loads. 1 to 24 on the first Litejet-24 and 25 to 48 on the second Litejet-24. Litejet can not handle any load numbers above 48.

You can install a Centralite Elegance system and handle 190+ loads.

 

[Pursuit20]

I am very familiar with the Centralite products. Even though the LiteJet only goes up to 48 loads, I can create a custom module for you on the side that will allow the HAI or the Elk to turn on loads on the LJ24 panel independently from the 48. but still activate scenes as a whole. What is the time frame you are looking at having this solution complete? Just tell me what you need in detailed and I can do it for you.

Let me know,

 

[DavidL]

I don't believe Cinemar's new Centralite plugin will connect to two panels at once either. But, it is very possible to run MLServer 3 (with another software license) on a second PC and have a second Centralite plugin talking to the second panel. These updates are then "Redirected" to the primary MLServer so all status is contained in one place for event processing and UI updating.

Don't know if this same strategy can be used with CQC or not. Don't know if the CQC license model supports this, but I suspect it will based on these types of conversations of the past.

 

[kayemsi]

Basically the idea had been to use the automation panel to do 3 things

1) expose the loads (status and control) and scenes from the two LJ systems to CQC via the HAI or ELK driver for integrated home control.

2) allow the security panel to control both systems in emergency situations and program actions involving the lights for events like motion sensing to turn on certain lights, arming system turn off all lights, etc.

3) allow some limited interaction between the two systems, like a button pressed on the LJ24 system (possibly tied to an internal scene) that the automation panel would receive and cause it to run a custom macro to command a scene on the LJ48 to be run (as well as possibly do other automation panel tasks). For instance turn on lights tied to one system from a keypad tied to the other.

As far as timeframe: We are running the electrical wiring and installing the LJ panels now. The security panel has not been purchased yet. Trim out of keypads will be later, of course. The house won't be ready until mid to late fall.

 

[rocco]

This is the word from the Centralite Guru. Litejet has a limit of 48 loads. 1 to 24 on the first Litejet-24 and 25 to 48 on the second Litejet-24. Litejet can not handle any load numbers above 48.

You can install a Centralite Elegance system and handle 190+ loads.

I guess this means that Elk doesn't want to fix it either.

I suspect it also means that CentraLite makes more money on Elegance.

So the CentraLite Guru confirms it. The 24 loads of the LiteJet-24 will overlap the first 24 loads of the LiteJet-48.

You could still make this work with either the Omni or Elk by programming with scenes, but the fact that the LiteJet only supports 30 scenes may make this impractical. Where a load does not need to interact with the other LiteJet or with the Omni/Elk, you could still use loads.

using an Elegance system would be more . . . well . . . elegant.

 

[ctay]

Could you use both an ELk and an Omni and control each light jet independently yet combine them through programing in CQC or ML or whatever?

 

[DavidL]

Without me having any background with Litejet, but do have some experience with ELK and Omni, that probably would work with at least Mainlobby. You could use an ELK to talk to Panel A, and the MLELKM1 plugin to talk to the ELK from Mainlobby server software, and then the MLLighting / LiteJet driver would be connected to Panel B. Within MLServer, there would be variables for "MLELKM1_lighting1 = ON" and also "MLLighting_lighting1 = OFF" (just examples for illustration).

 

[kayemsi]

Thanks DavidL,

What kind of functionality for the centralite does the ML driver expose? I did not see it listed on a quick look over the ML drivers webpage, but I could have missed it.