Can I access a tstat without using Nexia? Looking for automation setup advice.

[widget77]

Thats the base question I have.
 
We are getting a new furnace and getting a new thermostat.  Wife and I don't really like the look of the plain monotone tstats out there.  White box, black letters.  We like the look of the nest and these 824/850/950 thermostats BUT we on't like the idea of having to pay the nexia fee.  $10/month.
 
So our setup would ideally include getting and setting up a good looking thermostat, door locks, couple cameras, lights, motion sensor, couple other basic things maybe.  I'm open to whatever system and can handle some hacking on my own but want things fairly easy to automate together and a big key is to access it all remotely from our phones, etc.
 
I do need to mention my HVAC system DOES have a heat pump.  I've read 2nd Gen Nest can run these now?
 
The quote I got from the furnace guy says this about the furnace:
 
Installation of an American Standard 97% efficient variable speed furnace Mod# AUH2B060 with a two stage gas
valve in-place of the electric furnace. Installation will include the proper removal and disposal of the old equipment,
New indoor evaporator coil, easy access filtered return, supply plenum, gas piping from the gas meter,
condensation drain piping, American Standard ACONT802 touchscreen thermostat.
 

American Standard GOLD824 color touch screen Nexia thermostat w/bridge. $ 380.00
Bright Brass lever lock entry door lock. $ 218.00
Light Module. $ 58.00
Indoor wireless camera. $ 206.00
Outdoor wireless camera. $ 297.00
Door Sensor. $ 61.00
Motion Sensor. $ 82.00

 

 

[LarrylLix]

The Venstar thermostats can be controlled directly from a ISY994i using it's Network Resource module. To get status back requires another CPU left on. This can be established using a RPi running VenLink.
 
There are Insteon Thermostats that will do multiple stages but I wouldn't recommend them for full house control.
 
I assume you must live in a very cold climate to make the high-efficiency ever payback. I live in Ontario and the extra cost and maintenance of the 93% unit in my previous home was never worth it. Perhaps the differences in prices has come down.

 

[jkmonroe]

I saw your post on reddit.  If you really want a Nest, why don't you just call their support line and ask if it's compatible?
 
Don't run yourself in circles because your installer recommended something.  Everything you've asked for is (relatively) easy to achieve including remote/phone access.

 

[widget77]

One reason they want efficent where I live is they give a good sized credit back to you.  I think the US just is trying to play catchup and pushing efficency.
 
I probably will call Nest to see if they are compatiable but I'm just using this line first to see if people know of any other options.  I know I could just get one of those(imo) bland thermostats but I actually like the American Standard ones but they are zwave and just not sure you have to use nexia or not.  I'm not sure they'd show up with an ip on the network that I just buy something and attach it and then run it or its going to be more complicated.
 
I looked at the Vera and read a good review and it seems like everything I'd like too and hoping the compatibility is there.

 

[jkmonroe]

If it's Z-Wave, you can use most software packages with a z-wave controller, but there might need to be some custom programming to get that particular thermostat model fully supported (And Z-Wave isn't IP, it's 900MHz RF).  IMO, getting into z-wave needs to have a more thought out approach to whole home integration, rather than just hooking up a couple of 'connected devices' like a Nest or Ecobee and smart lock.  A quick glance over the forums here will show you just how rough it can be to get a solid z-wave network configured.
 
Good luck!

 

[LarrylLix]

The biggest hurdle for many of us is the popular ones are all cloud based monitoring and cloud based control.
 
Websites go down, companies suddenly go out of business or stop support, somebody can monitor your data, somebody can control your thermostat or hack into it, and costs can suddenly get implemented and/or increase.
 
The latest complaint I saw last week was DDNS service just increased from $25 to $40 from some popular provider.

 

[widget77]

If it's Z-Wave, you can use most software packages with a z-wave controller, but there might need to be some custom programming to get that particular thermostat model fully supported (And Z-Wave isn't IP, it's 900MHz RF).  IMO, getting into z-wave needs to have a more thought out approach to whole home integration, rather than just hooking up a couple of 'connected devices' like a Nest or Ecobee and smart lock.  A quick glance over the forums here will show you just how rough it can be to get a solid z-wave network configured.
 
Good luck!

 
Thats why I've come here asking for advice on systems.  I'm looking for the best way to get a system integrated.  First up in line for us though is installing the thermostat and we are being selective in the one we choose because we like the options and look of only a few that are out there.
 
We want a whole integrated system, not a bunch of stuff from different companies that don't mesh well together.  I want stuff thats reliable, has a solid history and like the other guy said isn't going to just go out of business.  So if you have suggestions on how to best go about oing this I am all ears.
 
If that advice is "Suck it up and go with a more open(and uglier) thermostat because they integrate better", well thats advice I can listen to.
 
I have called Vera and have called Nest.  Vera wasn't open, Nest had very short wait time to take to what sounded like a cute 23 year old girl.  I didn't have any questions for her other than does Nest run a heat pump and a two stage furnace.  Vera I'm going to ask about compatiablity with the Trane/American Standard thermostats.
 
Like I'd said though, I'm still new to this whole thing so I'm still learning as I go.
 
Any advice, throw me a line.  =)

 

[LarrylLix]

Nobody makes a complete system with all the lines and/or the best looks and/or functionality. It's a real mish-mosh of quality to junk and only for he guy that likes to "tech" his way through it.
 
HA is in it's infancy, so far. There has never been enough OCD people to support the hobby properly for manufacturers to take notice much.
 
My house visitor still roll their eyes and my kids still unplug everything when they stay overnight. Who wants a light coming on about 15% in the middle of the night when you get up to pee in a strange house? Most people are comfortable with broken toes and running onto cribs.

 

[jkmonroe]

I guess that's the rub.  There is no complete 'system' out there; it's all DIY for now, or use something like a hub (ST, Wink, Vera) and live with their limitations.
 
Questions like this open up the larger debate on how exactly Home Automation is achieved.  There are a couple of models here:  Full Control, Integration, and Alternative Control (Hubs).
 
Full Control: your HA platform actively controls all aspects of your 'system' from lighting to HVAC to audio and video to security.
 
Integration: your HA platform integrates these various components while allowing them full independent/native control.
 
Alternative Control: you find this in a lot of the hubs; the devices all connect to the hub and you get alternative control via mobile and tablet apps.  the other 2 also do this.
 
Something like control4/Crestron would be an example of full control.  Software packages like CQC and HomeSeer would be examples of Integrators.  Wink/SmartThings/Vera would be examples of alternative control.
 
Personally, I like the idea of integration versus full control (I use CQC).  I have Hue lights, Nest Thermostat, Dropcams, Nest Protect, Sonos Audio, Tivo and Plex for Video.  Each of these 'systems' is integrated with CQC but still allows native control from each dedicated interface (Hue App, Nest App, Sonos App, Tivo App, Plex App), and I can use the built in abilities of each system wholly independent of my HA controller like alarms and timers, scenes, etc.  My integrator still picks up on each of these native things, but in the event that my server crashes, most things will still work as expected and I will still retain control over each system.  It's great because my wife prefers the native apps for things, so we get the best of both worlds.
 
I would recommend that you take a look around at the various products that you might want to buy in each major category: Lighting, HVAC, Audio, Video, Security, Irrigation, and see if your products have the ability to be controlled via an API of some sort or RS232, and then find an integration suite like CQC or HomeSeer that supports the products you select.
 
Lighting:  Hue, Z-Wave (requires master controller), Insteon, Lutron Caseta, Lutron RadioRA2
HVAC: Nest, EcoBee, Z-Wave, Insteon (i don't know too much in this space since I use Nest)
Audio: Sonos, Russound, MonoPrice, Xantech
Video: Oppo (BluRay), Tivo, Plex, Roku, IP Controlled TVs like Sony/LG/Sharp/BenQ
Security: HAI Omni II, Elk M1, DSC, GE CaddX
Irrigation: Rachio (the only one I know)