CCTV Overview

IVB

Senior Member
I just typed up this summary of my Monday night CCTV walkthrough with my neighbors and sent it out. Dang they loved it; it's not really that insightful, but I s'pose if you've not had any exposure to CCTV, this could help.
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Why I put up cameras:

1) 55% of the value to me was the ability to remotely view the cameras over my cellphone in the event of a false alarm. I’ve had 2 instances over the past 6 months where I was erroneously contacted, and the ability to confirm that everything was fine gave me piece of mind. Once was when I was alone and wife/kids were out of town, so I was definitely a little skittish about potentially coming home to a robbery in progress, and it’s not like I’d want to ask my neighbors to put themselves in harms way by checking it out. The police will start charging for false alarms, so this was a simple way of confirming that life was good.

2) 45% of the value to me was security in case the bad guys do come. Of that 45%, there’s 2 components:

2a) Recording what’s happening on the sidewalk outside my house in the event of a mugging there or someone running away from a mugging, so there’s legit evidence of what happened. (ie, no need for Neighborhood Watch Network emails with text-based and potentially vague descriptions about who was the guy who robbed you/broke into your car, but an actual picture.

2b) Recording of the bad guys stealing my stuff. This is clearly the smallest overall percentage since my stuff will still be gone, but hopefully this will help the police somewhat.


What equipment you need:

1) Cameras. The sweet spot is from $125 to $175, my Vitek brand, night vision color 1/3” 480line cameras are $156 if you get them from automatedoutlet.com.

2) Either:

2a) A CCTV DVR, which is basically a tivo-type unit with camera inputs and specialized software. This runs anywhere from $700-$2000, based on # of cameras you want to record, quality, internet/PDA viewing.

2b) A CCTV card for computer. This could run $150->$1000, mine cost $400 and is a pretty dang decent one. It’s the AverMedia NV5000. It’s very picky though and only works on Intel computers (not AMD). If you opt for the same card I have and are computer-savvy, you can read through the hardware recommendations on the AverMedia site. Warning, it’s pretty technical, as I’m sure they need to legally defend themselves (http://www.avermedia.com/nvd/hardware-recom.asp)

You do NOT need both the computer and the DVR, it’s one or the other


3) Cabling to run from the camera to the PC or DVR (unless you get wireless cameras, which I know very little about since I don’t have them). You can use either

3a) CAT5 network cable with adapters on the end, or

3b) RG6 (video signal) and 18gauge/2 conductor (for low-voltage power).


How hard is it:

- If you’re comfortable with getting up on a ladder, have easy access to your attic, and know how to use a drill, this is pretty basic stuff. The first time you drill a hole through your outer wall is a little freaky, but once you get in the attic and look around at how craftsman style homes are built, you realize that it’s all very very simple.


Other thoughts:

- Consider camera placement before purchasing cameras. If you’re only going to have one, then putting up high where you just grab a shot of the top of the perpetrator’s head isn’t going to be useful as all a jury will ever think is “yes, the suspect had a bald spot”. If you have more than one, that’s less of an issue.

- If you’re going to go through this hassle, don’t skimp on the most important bit and get a cheapo camera. Keep in mind that the jury system requires “proof beyond a reasonable doubt”, so getting something cheap and grainy won’t really help you that much if the bad guys come knocking.
 
Axis has really great cameras, I have yet to meet someone who doesn't like them. Obviously you will pay for that kind of quality, but if you have the budget, definitely worth considering.
 
Nice writeup...

Although I'm shooting myself... I just yanked and reran all my fiber/coax/low-voltage lines out of my 2" conduit between the house and the outuilding so i could run more stuff. I knew i should have bouht some more coax and run it when i had the chance!

thx for always informative stuff
-brad
 
It's interesting to read the "other side". :p Different things are important to me, however the customer is always right.

Only 2 things I'll mention, to help you guys out in the future.

RG6 shouldn't be used unless you have real knowledge of what you are getting. You should use RG59u all copper, if you need RG6 or RG11 it should also be all copper (not copper clad steel crap). Of course you also have a house so massive you'd probably hire a pro.

Cameras really don't have a "sweet" spot for price as no single cam works in all places. Generally though it's $150/($250)/$400/$1000 and there are HUGE swings in this, not all $1k cameras are equal (I personally am not crazy about Axis and Extreme CCTV). Same goes not all $150 cameras are equal... Limiting to that budget basically limits you to quality black and white, then basic true 24 hour, deluxe 24 hour, then megapixel. Also all in ones are usually cheaper however vandal domes demand a premium for their armor. Lots of variables in doing bang:buck calculations. :D

I'll add in some free advise.

If the stuff you buy doesn't have a brand on it GE, Panasonic, Bosche, Sony... The spec sheets are most likely overstated if not blatently incorrect, some of the midgrade brands do it too. It's impossible to compare apples/apples with them. You gotta buy one and see, also QC/QA issues are much bigger if you buy enough cameras you can often percieve it. Not to mention usable life, GE and Panasonics get replaced due to technology not death. Price is a factor however making it priority 1, I dunno.

If the cam has IR LEDs on it, there are very few useful places to install it. I would almost venture to say they are worthless, if you really need IR buy it seperate and understand why you need it.


I hope your system serves you well for a long long while! :D
 
very interesting, thanks for that.

Why would you say that a camera with IR LEDs are worthless and very few useful places to install?
 
IVB,

I'm curious, where did you use yours for the verification? I would primarily/ideally like about 3/4 cameras outside if i did this (with wide coverage of my lot, the back and front of my house). Maybe one for close up coverage by the front door and 1/2 inside for the main living area...

In my opinion, night vision/LED would be good in all cases...
But all of these look kind of big to hide either indoors or out...

Also - regardless of the PC/DVR approach, wouldn't equipment placement be an issue ? I.e. if someone robs my house and spots the cams, i doubt they're gonna leave without trying to find the recording equipment...

-brad
 
Also - regardless of the PC/DVR approach, wouldn't equipment placement be an issue ? I.e. if someone robs my house and spots the cams, i doubt they're gonna leave without trying to find the recording equipment...
IMHO that gets back to other stuff like making it noisy and uncomfortable in the house. If you put a couple of piezo screamers inside, with one near the equipment, the guys ears are gonna bleed before he has the time to get the equipment, especially if its locked up or in a security case.
 
Why would you say that a camera with IR LEDs are worthless and very few useful places to install?
It's just a flawed design, several reasons actually.

1. They use 10* LEDs so the pattern is very tight like a "pencil beam", this allows for a greater throw however anything infront of the camera reflects the IR directly back into the lense. If they are even remotely close to the camera it has a whiteout effect on most often their face. That kills your evidence value...

2. The index of refraction is different from the visable spectrum of light, to maintain proper focus you need IR corrected optics and most helpful auto backfocus. This is especially true in the systems I sall as they are TRUE 24 hour. Bullet cams have neither and the few (like IIRC <10) that do cost more then a good camera and seperate IR. If the IR is seperate it is almost impossible to bounce enough into the camera to cause the whiteout. This assumes you buy normal IR and not something halogen that needs 120v power.

3. The cameras are 9:10 NOT true 24 hour cameras, as such that have a crappy light filter that washes colors during the day. Then at night they simply digitally remove the color saturation and crank up the gain. This results in a BW picture but with MUCH less light percieved and much grainier due to the excessive gain.

4. Even the crappiest of OEM crap outlives the LEDs. If IR is seperate it's no big deal to replace.

5. IR is for stealth, thats it. It has no benefit to anyone other then law enforcement and investigation over a normal floodlight. It makes everyone look like an alien, doesn't help in the evidence department.



For these reasons I don't sell cameras with integrated IR, period.


Also - regardless of the PC/DVR approach, wouldn't equipment placement be an issue ? I.e. if someone robs my house and spots the cams, i doubt they're gonna leave without trying to find the recording equipment...


My commerical installs get special treatment in this area, I hide the DVRs pretty well. :^)

For a home user...

Run your multiplex out to an old TV/VCR combo you can get in most pawn shops for $50-75. Put that up in the master bedroom and stick a tape in (still exposed, not all the way in) that has a label reading something like "CCTV tape". Leave the TV on 24/7.

Commercially I often also mount a camera in the TV/VCR, so as they try to steal/remove it... I great a GREAT shot of their face. :^D


Have fun!
Collin
 
I'm fairly certain I screwed up the location for the outer one - it's too far to be usable.

As far as location, let's just say i'm not worried about that.

CollinR - looks like I need to take pics of the front of my house, and you/I need to talk about what other camera I should put and where.
 
If you look at your pics from the CQC quad view thread, that fog the camera sees...

That piss poor construction ontop of flawed design.

Whats happening is the IR is bleeding over into the lense area, it's bousing off the glass at the front of the camera and going back into the lense. Thats something you'll never see with my setups.


Either that or it really was that foggy that night. :p


I think you have good mounting locations thus far, just need cameras more suited to the application. Some might be better then others but overall your insticts were pretty darn good. You just got wrapped up in marketing as few tell the straight dope, there isn't as much money in doing it right as there is in being a low cost provider.

I can get cams like that into the $30 range, I just choose not to. That would be roughly $130 in profit, per cam!!! With the stuff I sell to you guys I'm dang lucky to keep 10% margin. Thats hardly enough to keep the lights on... it does let me sleep well though. I know when my systems are called apon they will perform.
 
I can get cams like that into the $30 range, I just choose not to. That would be roughly $130 in profit, per cam!!! With the stuff I sell to you guys I'm dang lucky to keep 10% margin. Thats hardly enough to keep the lights on... it does let me sleep well though. I know when my systems are called apon they will perform.

Collin,

I agree with one of your other posts that specs and pricing (to a degree) are useless when trying to compare different cameras. I have researched quite a bit, and came to the conclusion, you don't know until you purchase and try it. That's not very cost effective for a one time setup.

I'd love a recommended list of cameras with prices that you can provide. I have no problem with a 10% markup. I realize everyones situation is different, but some ballpark prices for decent cameras and a brief description of their strengths and weaknesses could be a great start for many of us. Leave off the model specifics to prevent random surfers from benefiting your expertise without supporting you.

Brian
 
5. IR is for stealth, thats it. It has no benefit to anyone other then law enforcement and investigation over a normal floodlight. It makes everyone look like an alien, doesn't help in the evidence department.

I can think of one benefit of IR... It is just plain unpleasant to have outdoor lighting on all night. It is a form of pollution no different from smog or noise. At least with IR you don't feel like you are living next to a Wal Mart parking lot. I would suggest if it gets to the point where your highest priority is to have bright lights on all the time to help gather evidence against criminals then it is time to move somewhere safer.
 
I have a motion sensitive light for my outdoor stuff. The IR is just for those really really slow moving criminals :)
 
5. IR is for stealth, thats it. It has no benefit to anyone other then law enforcement and investigation over a normal floodlight. It makes everyone look like an alien, doesn't help in the evidence department.

I can think of one benefit of IR... It is just plain unpleasant to have outdoor lighting on all night. It is a form of pollution no different from smog or noise. At least with IR you don't feel like you are living next to a Wal Mart parking lot. I would suggest if it gets to the point where your highest priority is to have bright lights on all the time to help gather evidence against criminals then it is time to move somewhere safer.


Oh too true!

I didn't say I don't sell IR at all, jusy not integrated into the actual cameras.

You might be surprised at what a quality camera can see with starlight alone.


I know my $150 BW bullet can see the shadow of my mailbox 60 feet away from the light produced by a 13w florescent porchlight.


If it's setup properly IR is usually not needed, it does have its places.
 
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