<AutomatedOutlet> is david planning on logging in in a few minutes then?
<fitzpatri8> Typical...all us Home Automation types are just ahead of our time...(by about three minutes, by my clock...)
<AutomatedOutlet> guess that leaves me time to get another beer. glad we have them in the coke machine in the office!
<AutomatedOutlet> there's david
<AutomatedOutlet> hi david
<GuyLavoie> hi
<AutomatedOutlet> hey guy, i saw your post on google today - well said!
<GuyLavoie> and I saw your reply...also to the point
<GuyLavoie> hi bsr
<bravesirrobbin> hi
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, things like that are what are making boards like this one and others more popular
<AutomatedOutlet> hi morgan
<bravesirrobbin> hey
<bravesirrobbin> did you guys start the chat with david yet?
<AutomatedOutlet> david, how many of those echo speakers can i drive off of the M1 before needing an elk-800?
<gordon> not yet bsr
<David0126> Hello everyone. You can go to a 2 ohm load, but limit the volume.
<AutomatedOutlet> english por favor
<AutomatedOutlet> hi mike
<justonemore> love ya martin. was thinking the same thing
<GuyLavoie> 2 ohms, that's four 8 ohms speakers in parallel
<AutomatedOutlet> can i hook 2 in?
<David0126> Just got back from advanced M1 training at SetNet. I learned more than they did.
<mbreeden> evening
<bravesirrobbin> Hi David, thanks for being our guest speaker tonight
<GuyLavoie> clap clap
<David0126> I am glad to be here. Just fire any questions you have.
<Squintz> **APLAUSE**
<justonemore> we appreciate you taking the time to chat with us'
<AutomatedOutlet> OK, let me try it this way. I want to hook 2 speakers (elk echo speakers) into the M1 in the office. do I just plug both sets of wires into the output for the speaker?
<bravesirrobbin> th format is open, so lets start the chat
<David0126> M1 Ethernet module is scheduled to start shipping Monday. I hope!
<fitzpatri8> So David, give us a general discription of this M1 gadget.
<justonemore> elk viewer here. so I'll let u guys fire away and I'll observe
<GuyLavoie> ao, you could put up to four 8 ohm speakers, all wired in parallel
<WayneW> yes, martin, you can connect up to 4 speakers
<David0126> M1 is an advanced security and home automation control.
<AutomatedOutlet> Both sets of wires into the same output - thanks
<Stinger> Howdy
<AutomatedOutlet> i figured it had the juice for it
<David0126> The M1 has up to 208 zones with 16 on the main control.
<bravesirrobbin> David, I often touted the Elk M1 Gold as a cross between an Ocelot with its digital input and outpt modules and a Caddx security system
<David0126> It has a 2.5 amp switching power supply.
<justonemore> what can elk do for me that my motion sensors and door/window sensors run with homeseer cans?
<justonemore> can't (sorry)
<David0126> I think the automation programming is easier, with Whenever/and/then programming.
<WayneW> jom, it can be 100% reliable
<AutomatedOutlet> lot more reliable too
<Stinger> Plus it's certified for insurance
<GuyLavoie> David, do you have exmaples of it/then scripts somewhere?
<David0126> The M1 is designed to run forever without crashing.
<WayneW> is it UL listed yet?
<electron> hey guys
<GuyLavoie> examples...
<Stinger> hey dan
<AccessX10> howdy
<justonemore> I can appreciate the built in logic. But most of us can do same
<bravesirrobbin> David, Guy Lavoie is a good sounding board as he is an expert in the ladder logic CMax programming of the Ocelot
<GuyLavoie> whaddya mean "hey guys"...there's only one me ;-)
<justonemore> ins issues are VERY relevant though
<David0126> I will get the SetNet training site and you can see example programs.
<justonemore> as well al reliability
<fitzpatri8> See the training site? I'd like that.
<Squintz> lol guy
<justonemore> me too!
<fitzpatri8> Isn't integrating security and automation asking for trouble?
<justonemore> wow
<David0126> Training site from SetNet: http://www.setnetpro.com/store.asp
<justonemore> isn't using automation in one's house asking the same?
<AccessX10> David, can you share any information on the upcoming touchscreen controller?
<justonemore> sorry Fitz. very emotional about my setup.
<justonemore> my thinking is if I set it up. I know how it ticks
<David0126> The M1 integrates security and automation in a system designed to run forever. Homeseer can use the inputs and outputs to execute its programs.
<Stinger> It's like the stargate, but the M1 Gold is listed as an alarm panel
<Stinger> (ie. for ins)
<David0126> Touchscreen is still open. We are working on a system now. I do not know if it will be STN or TFT yet.
<fitzpatri8> (No offense taken. If my current HA crashes, my lights don't come on, but my alarm will still sound if I get burgled.)
<bravesirrobbin> Can you expand a little on the digital input and outputs of the Elk?
<bravesirrobbin> Maybe that will explain things better fitzp
<David0126> The M1 has 34 zone definitions including analog zone definitions.
<justonemore> I see your point with that fitz
<David0126> The zone definitions include all types of burglar, fire, police, medical, arm disarm, temperature.....
<justonemore> but I guess I am feeling too complacent thinking my security sys is just part of my HA sys
<smee> What about interfaces to other hardware? W800RF32, for example.
<David0126> You can write Rules on the burglar zones to control the other home automation functions like using motion detectors for light control.
<GuyLavoie> I'm still looking for scripting examples on the setnet site...
<David0126> The M1 interfaces to HAI, RCS, Aprilaire, ON
<David0126> OnQ alc, centralite, X10, Zwave, UPB lighting
<bravesirrobbin> any insteon planned?
<justonemore> David. Say I am a typical HomeSeer user......How can I incorporate your security product into my homegrown system and what might it entain?
<David0126> We now even interface to Creston and AMX
<bravesirrobbin> ok, now you lost points
<AccessX10> When you say interfaces to HAI, can you elaborate on that?
<bravesirrobbin> hehe
<smee> Is supporting new hardware something that the end user can do?
<smee> I'm thinking hardware that doesn't send/receive messages that the M1 uses.
<Mark> AccessX10 - HAI thermostat
<David0126> We have an open archicture ASCII data bus that you can use Homeseer to control the M1 and gather data from the M1 to control other things.
<fitzpatri8> What happens when an attached device crashes, or in the case of X10, starts reporting a signal storm?
<justonemore> dumb it up please
<smee> So if I want to connect a W800, I'll need to go through a computer first?
<David0126> We can send custom ASCII strings to any equipment and recognize custom ASCII strings.
<justonemore> that is correct for the W800\
<smee> ok.
<smee> I'm not actually sure what the W800 messages look like.
<David0126> I plead ignorance on the W800. Not familiar with it.
<justonemore> the W800 is basicly a RF security receiver that works like a serial dongle
<justonemore> I believe
<smee> receives all x10 RF, normal HA and security.
<justonemore> y
<smee> Like a "super-MR26A"
<justonemore> pretty much
<justonemore> I just installed mine yesturday
<David0126> If the W800 sends out X10 power line commands we can recognize them and react to them to control things.
<justonemore> I unplugged my MR and all MS and such is still received
<Mark> David - Any additional platforms you plan to support in addition to Crestron, etc.
<justonemore> Plus still receives security sigs from my DS10As
<David0126> Elan, Novu is in the works.
<Mark> Lutron...hint...hint..
<AccessX10> Russound?
<David0126> Lutron Radio Ra is on the list. We have the protocol, just not done yet.
<GuyLavoie> Kind of funny to see the name "elan", which is the word for an "elk" in french!
<justonemore> hehe
<David0126> Any device that can be controlled from an ASCII string we can control going out of the M1.
<bravesirrobbin> so, you can set up custom devices via all those serial ports then
<AutomatedOutlet> guy, only you would pick up on that one!
<GuyLavoie> are there multiple serial out ports?
<smee> are the serial ports buffered?
<bravesirrobbin> how many serial ports does the elk have, i thought a "bunch"
<David0126> We have one serial port on the control at 115K baud and expandable to 7 more.
<smee> interrupt driven?
<electron> even just supporting the MR26A would be a great asset, but I think the protocol might be too complicated
<David0126> Yes interrupt driven.
<GuyLavoie> and can the serial ports each be receiving at the same time?
<David0126> MR26A?
<bravesirrobbin> so the intent was to interface to devices such as serial controlled thermostats and such?
<bravesirrobbin> MR26A is another universal X-10 RF receiver
<smee> The W800 spits out 4 bytes (at least) for each incoming signal: http://www.wgldesigns.com/protocols/w800rf32_protocol.txt
<justonemore> E. U saying support of the MR26A in compilation with the elk?
<Mark> Has there been any discussion of having the M1 react to ASCII data coming into the Serial Port?
<AccessX10> BSR- pc's - programming, etc.
<justonemore> That might be sweet to incorporate already in use RF motion sensors
<WayneW> I think the MR26a and w800 might be too "low end" for their intended market... they already support Caddx wireless sensors
<David0126> We already react to custom ASCII string coming into the M1.
<AutomatedOutlet> good point wayne
<WayneW> just use "chepie geeks" wanting to use our $8 DS10a's
<David0126> Questions have been going by fast, if I missed any let me know/
<bravesirrobbin> I guess another question would be, how had would it be to support custom serial device, do you need a driver? Is the serial capability advanced enough in programming to create custom devices, etc...
<justonemore> then I guess consider me the "LOW END" GUY....CAUSE THAT 'S MY MAIN USEAGE
<WayneW> whats the speed of a swallow?
<GuyLavoie> gulp@
<fitzpatri8> African or European swallow?
<WayneW> no insult intended, I use DS10a's too, but I won't use them for mission critical stuff
<David0126> The serial port expander has custom drivers for the thermostats and lighting system other than X10. X10 support is built on the main control.
<justonemore> That's what my shotgun and dog are for
<bravesirrobbin> very cool
<bravesirrobbin> we need someone like smee to take a look at that protocal
<GuyLavoie> how is X10 interfaced? PSC-05? other?
<AutomatedOutlet> psco5
<GuyLavoie> so it can't receive extended X10?
<WayneW> so no preset dim support, right?
<David0126> You can download the serial protocol from the website: m1dealer.elkproducts.com
<Mark> Serial Received - Never saw that until now...Thanks
<fitzpatri8> How are the HA functions split out from security features? Can I trust an end-user not to screw up security while playing with HA?
<pauL> you cant trust an end user.
<pauL> at all
<AccessX10>
<fitzpatri8> I resemble that remark!
<David0126> We have preset dim support for all the devices, including X10
<AutomatedOutlet> guy, that's what i have installed on mine (PSC05) not sure if you could use other interfaces
<David0126> The home automation functions are all programmed from a PC. The security functions are programmed from the keypad or PC.
<GuyLavoie> yes, preset dim is a "standard" x10 command. a psc-05 can also send extended (eg. Leviton) direct dims, but can't receive them
<David0126> The PSC05 does not do extended.
<GuyLavoie> it does for sending, but not receiving
<AccessX10> David- keypad mic and speaker - can they be accessed from an external device?
<David0126> Yes it only transmits extended.
<David0126> We have a two way listen in module kit that can be accessed from any telephone anywhere on the M1.
<AccessX10> OK, so I couldn't broadcast HomeSeer voices and use the Mic for VR?
<bravesirrobbin> The Elk has an "on-board" voice vocabulary correct
<electron> So if I understand this right, 1-wire would be supporting using a simple serial interface?
<AutomatedOutlet> 500 words - is that going to be increased soon david?
<justonemore> OT. I swear I'm gonna REALLY read up on 1-wire.
<David0126> There are over 500 voice phrase built in with upto 60 seconds of custom recorded voices that you record from a telephone connected to the system.
<hotwire> Is it possible to control Lutron Radio RA with the serial port on a M1 gold?
<smee> To see the serial protocol, do you need to log in?
<justonemore> How-to's bookmared though
<David0126> Radio Ra is in development.
<DavidL> hi all
<justonemore> hi
<AccessX10> hey
<David0126> You can download all the manuals and support literature now with no log in.
<GuyLavoie> where?
<smee> where?
<justonemore> ditto
<David0126> M1dealer.elkproducts.com is the website.
<smee> I'm there, but I can't find anything.
<David0126> Hang on I will check the site.
<bravesirrobbin> do you need a password?
<justonemore> It's kinda late....and on a FRI night after a long week. Give us a direct URL so we can bookmark for later viewing
<AutomatedOutlet> not for the manuals. i can also email it to anyone
<bravesirrobbin> smee, do you understand the protocol of the elk then?
<bravesirrobbin> serial port i mean
<smee> no - I can't find it.
<bravesirrobbin> ok, well no pressure, but we are all relying on you to figure this out for us
<AutomatedOutlet> smee, pm me your email and i'll send it to you
<GuyLavoie> same here ao...
<AutomatedOutlet> k
<David0126> My mistake on the download page: http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/m1documentation.htm
<AutomatedOutlet> ah, ok
<justonemore> well....after tonight ..... I think I'm going to be ording about 5 more DS10A's from you Martin
<smee> ok. Thanks, David.
<smee> and thanks, AO.
<AutomatedOutlet> sure
<fitzpatri8> That should clear things up a bit.
<bravesirrobbin> David, can you expand a little on the analog input cabability of teh Elk
<AutomatedOutlet> david, are there plans for future releases to have larger vocabularies?
<David0126> All inputs send the analog level back to the main control. Therefore we have the analog information available.
<AccessX10> David, any plans for alternate keypad solutions (other then touchscreen)?
<David0126> Write a rule that checks the analog level of a zone on a time basis along with an And rule to control things.
<David0126> We are working on some foreign languages now. More words need to be requested. New decora keypad is coming.
<brian> I was thinking to have Elk setup up as a monitor for hs computer if something happens call elk and have it reset puter remotely
<David0126> It is quite easy to monitor a computer and if it crashes, the M1 can disconnect power and repower. I do it with my Vonage Telephone system.
<fitzpatri8> Automatic watchdog. That's handy.
<David0126> The M1 has both software and hardware watchdogs on board. Only way to go.
<fitzpatri8> How does it react to an X10 signal storm?
<brian> david did you describe how you do this anywhere?
<David0126> When the Vonage dies, I get a telephone fault. I trigger a rule on the telephone fault and cycle the Vonage power.
<GuyLavoie> I've finally found a programming example! It looks ladder logic-like, somewhat like a JDS controller and an Ocelot.
<fitzpatri8> Guy, have a link?
<GuyLavoie> which leads me to ask: can you set variables or flage to "communicate" between "rules"?
<AutomatedOutlet> yep doing that here too - resets my routers
<David0126> There are 64, 16 bit counter that can act like flags and be used in any rule.
<GuyLavoie> I found an example in the downloadable installation manual, page 55 of the pdf
<GuyLavoie> those who know me know that I thrive on ladder logic...
<electron> I love ladder logic, my entire life is based on it
<GuyLavoie> everyone gone to look at the manual?
<electron> yea looks like it
<smee> guilty
<fitzpatri8> Yup!
<GuyLavoie> good!
<electron> so what do you guys think about being able to monitor the 1-wire stuff
<WayneW> 1-wire support should be on the to-do list
<smee> still trying to figure out serial devices
<David0126> We are developing a stand alone prox reader board that may have the dallas IButton on it.
<GuyLavoie> guys, I have to go now but I want to read this a bit later so I'm going to stay connected, but will be absent from the screen
<smee> 1-wire is fairly complicated - probably best with a "smart" interface - like a TEMP08
<AutomatedOutlet> later guy!
<electron> Guy, I will post the transcript on Cocoon tonight or tomorrow, thanks for stopping by tho!
<GuyLavoie> later all!
<justonemore> l8r guy
<WayneW> so build the temp08 into an official Elk M1 module
<justonemore> there ya go
<David0126> I will try to compile some Rule examples.
<electron> Does the M1 have as much memory/flexibility as the Ocelot when it comes to HA programming ?
<brian> Now just get Elk to do IR and no need for ocelot
<smee> How much memory and how slow does reaction become when it's full.
<smee> ?
<justonemore> dave.....we have been pulling on you quite a bit. I suggest you have a beer and we re-convine under more social circumstances! hehe
<AutomatedOutlet> YEAH - how about an IR module??
<David0126> We have been relying on companies like the Ocelot to provide IR. Squeaky wheels get the grease though.
<smee> found the number of rules in the manual: M1: 100 rules, M1G 528
<WayneW> each rule can have many lines of code in it
<WayneW> a complex if-then-else is only 1 rule
<smee> but I assume that many large rules will eat up memory.
<David0126> A Rule is a Whenever/Then statement. An AND or additional Thens are a Rule.
<smee> ok.
<David0126> Next software release will have more users and Rules.
<fitzpatri8> I like what I see in the manual so far... how many more rules?
<smee> It looks like the strings that can be sent out serial ports have to come from a canned list?
<pauL> an ability to shock the end user when he/she does something stupid would be a nice touch
<fitzpatri8> LOL!
<pauL> people dont like it when i sneak up on them with a cattle prod
<pauL> why'd you touch that? *ZAP*
<smee> I have a laptop power supply here that might do that.
<David0126> The strings come from a canned list with variable add ins.
<smee> Can you control the format of the variable add ins?
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, i set up a rule for one of the guys that comes in. if he disarms the system in the morning it says "You have been violated, thank you"
<smee> each text message counts as a rule, too.
<David0126> Every 8 characters count as a rule. Variable formating is very limited in this software release. What do you want?
<smee> Thanks. don't know yet. decimal -> binary type conversions
<David0126> The nice thing is that as we release new software releases, you just download them and reprogram the M1 and its peripherals.
<smee> How much room do you have left for firmware?
<AutomatedOutlet> 562 GB
<AutomatedOutlet> hehe
<WayneW> is there enough memory on board for all planned growth?
<David0126> No decimal to binary in this release, but a good idea.
<David0126> We have the next version processor in the works that will not have a memory problem. Currently things are tight at 256K.
<Mark> How will the new version be handled for upgrades?
<David0126> Same as now. Download upgrades from the website and reflash them.
<Mark> I mean the next version processor
<David0126> The next processor upgrades like the current processor, but more code space is available.
<smee> What processor is it using, if you don't mind the question?
<David0126> Coldfire!
<WayneW> what is upgrade process to new process o& more memory?
<brian> I think hes mean for existing elk m1 owners is there something in place to upgrade are panels?
<David0126> When Elk has software changes you can upgrade you control to the latest software without have to buy memory chips or send it back to the factory.
<David0126> There will be continued support for the current processor. You will not see a new processor for over a year.
<Treetop> evenin' all
<AutomatedOutlet> hey tt
<Mark> I would like to thank David for all the help he has provided to me during the HS Elk-M1 Plug-in build.
<David0126> You are welcome mark. You need an ethernet module now.
<AutomatedOutlet> i'd like to thank him for dealing with this barrage he's gotten tonight and hopefully well see him as a regular at cocoontech
<Mark> You're right!
<Treetop> what I miss!
<Treetop> lol
<Treetop> I pinged out
<David0126> This has been an experience. The great thing is the questions you as help to decide what is needed next. Keep asking the questions,
<AutomatedOutlet> did harleydude ever show up?
<fitzpatri8> Thanks David! Is there a place on your website I can hear a sample of the M1 talking?
<AutomatedOutlet> david, how do i get one of my motion sensors not to affect the arming of the system if the motion sensor is near the keypad?
<AutomatedOutlet> must be a setting
<Mark> AO - Just stop moving...hehe...
<David0126> I do not believe there is a sound example available to listen to. Good idea.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, that's hard for me to do sometimes
<fitzpatri8> (Martin, that's always been impossible on systems I've worked with.)
<David0126> Program the motion detector as a Force Arm Zone.
<AutomatedOutlet> ok, what will that do for me?
<AutomatedOutlet> "force armable"?
<David0126> If the motion detect is active it will be temporily bypassed and restored into the system when motion quits.
<AutomatedOutlet> cool
<AutomatedOutlet> just did it - i love how it's so easy to program!
<fitzpatri8> If motion quits while arming, and it force arms, won't it go off when he turns to leave?
<AutomatedOutlet> tsting now
<David0126> Make the garage door force armable and you can leave it open when arming. Close the door and it goes back into the system.
<smee> I'm playing with the ElkRP demo. In particular, I'm setting up a rule for serial inputs. Whenever the following text is received "Some Text" ... Is there a way to act on "random" data coming in, like a temperature value?
<David0126> Make it a delay or interior zone and once armed it will not restore until the exit time expires.
<AutomatedOutlet> not quite doing it
<AutomatedOutlet> ah
<AutomatedOutlet> definition 7?
<David0126> You can make characters wildcards or ignored and react on the remaining characters.
<AutomatedOutlet> intereor night delay?
<AutomatedOutlet> is that what i want?
<electron> hi dwayne!
<dwayne> Hello all
<AutomatedOutlet> guess i'll try it
<smee> If a string coming in looks like "T1,75" is there any way I can use the "1" and "75"?
<David0126> Interior night delay is used to put interior zones back into the system when arming in the Stay mode. Such as a basement or garage.
<AutomatedOutlet> which zone number should i use then?
<Mark> How do you set a character to ignore or wildcard (*)?
<David0126> Zone definitions like 1 or 2, 4,5,6,7
<David0126> The string parsing is limited. I know what you want and will look into it.
<smee> Thanks. This would be useful for adding things like 1-wire or a W800.
<AutomatedOutlet> David, that seemed to work. I set the zone at 07 -= buglar interior night delay and also have checked - force armable - is that right?
<David0126> The wild card setup is in the manual. I think is uses the '^' but I will have to check. Old age is setting in.
<David0126> Yes that should work as one option.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, seems to work the way i wanted it to - thanks!
<AutomatedOutlet> if there's a better way, please let me know though so i learn it
<David0126> You do not have to just use Interior night delay. The other zone types will work also to arm with a motion detector at the keypad.
<AutomatedOutlet> so, what would you suggest to set the type to then?
<David0126> Cross Zoning Option can be used with two motion detectors in the same room. both must go into alarm with 30 seconds to trigger an alarm.
<AutomatedOutlet> just burg, interior
<David0126> Being it is at the keypad, set it for Exit Delay 1 or 2.
<AutomatedOutlet> no, this isn't a pass though room though
<AutomatedOutlet> i have the front and rear contacts set to that too
<David0126> I need more info on the setup of the doors and motions to give a good response.
<AutomatedOutlet> guess maybe i should open up the manual. it still amazes me that i was able to set this thing up without the manual though
<David0126> It is pretty easy if you have some security experience. The keypad acts like a manual also.
<Mark> Good night everyone...Thanks David.
<AutomatedOutlet> I don't really have much at all. went to the caddx training last year but still never finished installing mine at the house right. i'm going to yank that out and replace it with an elk too.
<jayfro> I had a security salesman come to the door today.. It was a lot of fun knowing more than he did!
<HALMAN> Caddx is good but it does take a masters in physics to program.
<AutomatedOutlet> i did change that setting to burg, interior and it works fine like that too
<AutomatedOutlet> it's a pain in the butt
<AutomatedOutlet> jayfro - that's funny
<David0126> All exit entry and interior zones are delayed on exit.
<jayfro> even after telling him I had one, he wanted to sell me his "free" wireless system with $40 per month monitoring
<AutomatedOutlet> cool - it seems to be working great. i really like that prox reader i installed inthe keypad
<AutomatedOutlet> jayfro - probably one of those great x10 wireless ones!
<AutomatedOutlet> hehe
<Jello4> I've been thinking about the prox reader.
<David0126> If you set the Prox user code option to Access you can use the prox cards as a small access control system.
<Jello4> What is the max read distance?
<jayfro> it was the "Ademco" from "Honeywell".... he knew only what he read in a script
<AutomatedOutlet> need to be pretty close
<jayfro> in fact, I told him I had a wireless/wired hybrid, and he asked to see what a wired door sensor looked like
<brian> I considered it but didn't want anything else on keys guess i need to cut my hand open to put one in
<David0126> The prox reader in the keypad is about an inch, but use an external prox reader normally 4 inches but you can buy one up to 4 feet.
<AutomatedOutlet> david, any way to have it so you don't use up 2 user ids if a person has a 4 digit code and a prox card?
<DavidL> don't see krumpy here so i will ask a question he has asked - any chance that the elk can support a W800 wireless?
<DavidL> he wants to reuse his X10 wireless sensors to trigger an elk via W800 radio
<David0126> Use a 26 bit Weigand finger print reader. They work with no keys or codes.
<Jello4> ooh, there is an interesting idea!
<David0126> Any reader device that has 26 bit Weigand protocol output will work just like the prox reader.
<brian> I use caddx wireless keyfob any have ELk open the door
<AutomatedOutlet> did you say that you were coming out with an outside version?
<AutomatedOutlet> of the reader or keypad
<David0126> The reader in the keypad is a Rosslare. Just use one of their readers to make the cards or keyfobs compatible.
<David0126> HID or anyones 26 bit readers can be used.
<WayneW> why don't you sell a prox bundle of 5 discs & 5 cards? I don't need 10 of each
<AutomatedOutlet> wayne, we sell singles now
<David0126> They make an outdoor stainless steel keypad that has 26 bit Weigand output.
<AutomatedOutlet> one card also comes with the reader too
<AutomatedOutlet> i like the key fobs better though
<David0126> At ELK, we put the readers at butt level and put the credit card style cards in our bill folds in our rear pocket. Swipe your butt against the reader and you are in. We tell people it is a butt sniffer.
<brian> we have them at work too
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, but you have to get within one inch for that right?
<brian> No not that close
<WayneW> martin, the singles at $7, in bulk they are only $4.25... I am cheap!
<AutomatedOutlet> let me check - doesn't sound right
<David0126> No the external readers that can connect to the keypad has a 4 inch read range. But you can get longer read ranges.
<AutomatedOutlet> fixed it
<Cocooner> anyone still here?
<AutomatedOutlet> we added 100 new products last month - messed that one up....
<WayneW> thanks martin!
<AutomatedOutlet> sure, not sure where those other numbers came from but they weren't right
<David0126> M1 guys! Things have slowed down. I am getting to eat my dinner.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, it's about time for me to leave the office too and go home
<AutomatedOutlet> little burned out
<sdanks> The price you pay for being successful.
<AutomatedOutlet> wayne, thanks for letting me know about that
<Cocooner01> I just joind in - was the ethernet card discussed?
<David0126> It has been great. I have had a long day. Try to see you next Friday. Ethernet scheduled to release Monday.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, been trying to get electron to move here but no luck yet. need more people than what we have
<AutomatedOutlet> good because i have a pile of them on order
<sdanks> Automatedoutlet - I ordered a powerlinc from you a couple of weeks ago. Works well.
<AutomatedOutlet> looking forward to getting them in
<AutomatedOutlet> oh good, i'm glad you like it. that's what i use too
<smee> Thanks for answering all the questions, David.
<WayneW> so is the product line complete (for now) or is there more stuff coming out real soon?
<AutomatedOutlet> yes, thank you david!
<Cocooner01> I have an original card and the new software will not work with it. I was told today that it will be "soon" but I have head that for a while.
<David0126> Let me forwarn all you good distributors. Most people are ignorant of ethernet even though they think they know what is going on. Ethernet is going to require alot of tech support.
<AutomatedOutlet> what card?
<Cocooner01> ethernet card.
<David0126> The origional ethernet cards are to be replaced first. Free.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, i could see that .... it's one thing to connect the card but then what do you do with it...
<Cocooner01> I am awair of the replacement program. The question is will it be in a week or a year?
<AutomatedOutlet> are there setting in the rp software for smtp, etc?
<AutomatedOutlet> cocooner01 - i think you'll see it probably next week
<David0126> The origional ethernet modules were single connection. The new ones are multiple connection. The single connection cards that were shipped back in Jan/Feb are being replaced. They cannot be upgraded.
<Cocooner01> the new RP has everything for email for reporting to central monitoring as well as users. Now all we need is a good card.
<Cocooner01> My question is when will the new card be shipping?
<AutomatedOutlet> think he said probably monday
<David0126> The central station reporting currently is add in software at the central station until be get Osborn Hoffman's ethernet protocol.
<David0126> New ethernet is scheduled for Monday.
<Cocooner01> Great news if it is true. I have several on back order and one to replace. I will check in next week.
<AutomatedOutlet> i'm blasting off now - time to leave the office. talk to you later. thanks again david!
<David0126> My pleasure.
<Cocooner01> David - I thought I head a while back that a touch screen was in the works, is that true?
<Cocooner01> Or alternate panles in general?
<David0126> Yes. We are working on a 7.8 inch touchscreen.
<Cocooner01> that is great news!!!
<Cocooner01> Time frame for beta or a glimps?
<David0126> We have a smaller version of the M1 called the M1 EZ8 coming out in July. Betas are being shipped now.
<Cocooner01> This version has a touch screen?
<David0126> The touchscreen has to have plastic tooling done yet. 3rd- 4th quarter
<Cocooner01> what are the fundimental differances in the ez vs the gold?
<David0126> Ez8 has 8 zones, expandable to 200. No Voice or telephone remote control. Everything else is the same as M1 Gold.
<Chakara> Cool, David, glad your still here. I meant to be hear sooner, but got caught up in something at work.
<Chakara> I just got home, started to go work on my Gold, and then remembered you might still be here..hehe
<Cocooner01> Clients what touch screens, but do you think the functioning is worth it? Is there integration with other systems such as audio etc?
<David0126> We are here!
<Chakara> I'm loving the panel...don't have much (anything) done with it yet. More like bench testing some things, trying to keep the WAF up at the same time..haha
<Treetop> Clients want touchscreens?!? So do I! hehe
<David0126> It has a browser. If the other systems serve a webpage, it can communicate.
<Chakara> Hm, what kind of resolution? I may wait on my second keypad for something like that.....
<Cocooner01> Pricing? (yes I am punping you for as much as you will give)
<Cocooner01> Pictures?
<Cocooner01> give us a scoop!
<David0126> 640 X 480 resolution. We are also looking at integrating the Pepper Pad into the M1 family. www.pepper.com
<Treetop> C1, have you seen the videos yet?
<Cocooner01> No
<David0126> I do not know who is listening. Contact your favorite distributor for pricing.
<Chakara> Your killing me here - this thing is gonna break my pocketbook eventually!
<Cocooner01> What video
<DavidL> David0126 - any thoughts on the W800 question?
<Chakara> Oh yeah, that would be very nice (W800)
<Treetop> http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=1876
<Cocooner01> the touch screen has a price already??? The ethernet card wasn't priced untill the first version was out.
<smee> after looking at some of the programming, I think something like the W800 will need to be done in firmware.
<David0126> I am going to have to research the W800 and look at its protocol to see how compatible the M1 is.
<DavidL> thanx
<Chakara> I was wondering if anyone smarter than me had looked at that smee - the data from the W800 too dynamic for the serial expander rules (and 500 line limit?)
<smee> You can find the W800 at www.wgldesigns.com. They have the protocol: http://www.wgldesigns.com/protocols/w800rf32_protocol.txt
<David0126> Beta Zwave boards are due in about 4 weeks. Sign up for beta testing of Zwave.
<Treetop> W800?
<Treetop> I thought there were wireless sensors for the M1
<smee> W800RF32A - X10 RF receiver (normal devices and security). serial output.
<Treetop> man, I missed toooo much to night
<brian> where to sign up
<smee> I'm a fan of x10 palmpads for remote control - even if you don't use the security devices.
<Chakara> There are wireless - Caddx based ones. Much more expensive than X10 stuff....of course probably that much more reliable too.
<David0126> There is a wireless X10 receiver that puts out X10 on the power line. We can receive that signal now. I do not know the X10 part number of the wireless receiver however.
<Cocooner01> Is there an effort to have greater integration with Centralite?
<brian> dave who/where do I need to go and sign up for Zwave beta testing my house is all Zwave
<David0126> We operate with Centralite now. Any further integration has not been requested that I know about.
<Chakara> David0126 - the W800 can recieve the all X10 house codes at once, as well as X10 home security type transmitters.
<smee> but the serial from the W800 is faster (fewer steps getting to the M1) and it will handle the security devices, too. There aren't any transceivers that do that.
<Cocooner01> I have imediate client application for zwave. I am looking forward to the final release.
<Treetop> Sorry if this question has been asked tonight...
<Treetop> Can I get a discount with my homeowners insurance?
<David0126> Contact [email protected] and request to be considered for the Zwave beta test. You need a M1.
<Chakara> Basically David0126 - if you decide to recieve X10 RF directly in the ELK, the W800 is the device to do it with.
<Treetop> Allstate tld me that it had to be monitored...
<Treetop> I told em it was... emai and phone call
<brian> Monitored with my cell phone
<Treetop> me too
<Treetop> I even have it call my neighbors
<Chakara> http://www.wgldesigns.com/w800.html
<David0126> OK, I will look into the W800 more. Maybe it could interface with a serial port expander and let the serial port expander translate the data.
<Treetop> but it didnt quaify for cheaper insurance...
<Chakara> Most companies are like that - get monitoring month to month from a local company for cheap.
<David0126> UL listings are in the final throws. They are doing the 30000 operation test now. It takes weeks to complete.
<Treetop> mmm... maybe I should get a tax license then
<Cocooner01> I think the M1 is great. Equal to the M1 are the people at Elk. Brad is amazingly patiant in trouble shooting with me. I recomend the product because it, as well as the company are great. Please pass the thanks on the the great staff.
<brian> yes every exporence Elk has been number 1 i wish other manufactures would learn from you guys
<David0126> We all try to keep our customers happy and we listen to what you say.
<Chakara> Yeah, I have to say they have all been great. Staff on the different forums, basically all contact I've had with them has been excellent. Haven't used support yet (maybe won't have to...HA!).
<Cocooner01> You do a great job and it is appreciated!
<David0126> Wade Moose would have it no other way than customer satisfaction.
<dwayne> David, is the 7.8 touch screen the same one RCS has developed?
<David0126> We are partnering with RCS. Ours will have different software and maybe some different hardware features.
<dwayne> still winCE?
<DavidL> David - any decision on Flash on it?
<dwayne> I am the owner of RedRadio, by the way
<David0126> TFT LCD is still an option. It is WinCE. I would like to see a Flash player added. I think we can.
<dwayne> They did a great job with the 7.8 dual scan display, about as good as you can do without TFT. A TFT display will be more expensive.
<David0126> RedRadio discussion came up Wednesday.
<dwayne> Oh? Where the heck was I? lol
<David0126> RedRadio touchscreens is another option that we are looking at.
<Cocooner01> I am trying to find a picture of the RCS screen - does anyone know where one is posted?
<HALMAN> Dwayne what does one of the reference kits cost?
<dwayne> My personal feeling is that a home needs one larger touch screen, like the RCS 7.8, and lots of little ones, like ours.
<David0126> The touch screen is too deep in engineering to have pictures. If you were at the ISC show in Vegas, you could see a machined prototype made by RCS.
<dwayne> Retail on the R2718EV-A4 (PC, windows, 4 touch screens) is $2495. These are intended for developers/manufacturers and come with heavy engineering support. The actual cost for dealers/manufacturers is lower, but you need to be registered to get that info.
<David0126> I think the small touch screens are a great idea.
<Cocooner01> wasn't there. David, do you think it will be shown at the next Cedia?
<dwayne> Thanks David
<dwayne> I saw the RCS at the ISC show. Its a terrific product.
<David0126> For sure in September.
<dwayne> Kudos to them.
<Cocooner01> great.
<Cocooner01> Just checking . . .other keypad options in the works?
<dwayne> RedRadio?
<David0126> RedRadio is a very viable solution and should be made to work with the M1. We needed a single touch screen solution in the hundreds of dollars area.
<dwayne> We are deciding on our dual-gang size right now. It will be either 3.5, 3.8, 4.0 or 5.6 size. And it will be Quarter VGA.
<David0126> They say bigger is better.
<HALMAN> We will make it work with redradio via a mainlobby to ELK M1 Plugin
<Cocooner01> Another product I would like to see is an outdoor prox reader.
<HALMAN> 1/4 Screen Dwayne thats great!
<dwayne> Agree on bigger, but, the 4.0 and smaller fit in a standard dual gang wallplate. 5.6 will be oversize and wont match standard wallplates.
<David0126> You can buy an off the shelf Rosslare outdoor prox reader right now. It should be 26 bit Weigand protocol to work fine.
<dwayne> Thanks and you will be able to mix 1/8th, 1/4, and ultimately VGA all from the same video card. Mix and match.
<Cocooner01> OK - thanks. I have asked in the past and did not get that answer.
<dwayne> This is the product roadmap.
<HALMAN> Nice!
<David0126> We are developing an arming station that fits in a decora wall plate, single gang.
<dwayne> Anyone looked at the new Acenti designs? I like them alot. Want them in my house.
<dwayne> But nothing out there (HA wise) to fit them yet.
<David0126> Yea, they are a bigger opening for more stuff.
<dwayne> But fit in standard boxes
<dwayne> Its a very nice product
<Qubert> Sorry, Just now able to get to get here. Will a transcript of this chat be available?
<Chakara> According the messageboard, Qubert - yes it will sometime this weekend.
<Qubert> Thanx!
<David0126> I got to go to bed my wife is calling. See you next week.
<Qubert> Any news on an M1 Zwave?
<DavidL> thanx david
<dwayne> Thanks David, take care
<Chakara> Cya David0126 - thanks for the info!
<fitzpatri8> Typical...all us Home Automation types are just ahead of our time...(by about three minutes, by my clock...)
<AutomatedOutlet> guess that leaves me time to get another beer. glad we have them in the coke machine in the office!
<AutomatedOutlet> there's david
<AutomatedOutlet> hi david
<GuyLavoie> hi
<AutomatedOutlet> hey guy, i saw your post on google today - well said!
<GuyLavoie> and I saw your reply...also to the point
<GuyLavoie> hi bsr
<bravesirrobbin> hi
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, things like that are what are making boards like this one and others more popular
<AutomatedOutlet> hi morgan
<bravesirrobbin> hey
<bravesirrobbin> did you guys start the chat with david yet?
<AutomatedOutlet> david, how many of those echo speakers can i drive off of the M1 before needing an elk-800?
<gordon> not yet bsr
<David0126> Hello everyone. You can go to a 2 ohm load, but limit the volume.
<AutomatedOutlet> english por favor
<AutomatedOutlet> hi mike
<justonemore> love ya martin. was thinking the same thing
<GuyLavoie> 2 ohms, that's four 8 ohms speakers in parallel
<AutomatedOutlet> can i hook 2 in?
<David0126> Just got back from advanced M1 training at SetNet. I learned more than they did.
<mbreeden> evening
<bravesirrobbin> Hi David, thanks for being our guest speaker tonight
<GuyLavoie> clap clap
<David0126> I am glad to be here. Just fire any questions you have.
<Squintz> **APLAUSE**
<justonemore> we appreciate you taking the time to chat with us'
<AutomatedOutlet> OK, let me try it this way. I want to hook 2 speakers (elk echo speakers) into the M1 in the office. do I just plug both sets of wires into the output for the speaker?
<bravesirrobbin> th format is open, so lets start the chat
<David0126> M1 Ethernet module is scheduled to start shipping Monday. I hope!
<fitzpatri8> So David, give us a general discription of this M1 gadget.
<justonemore> elk viewer here. so I'll let u guys fire away and I'll observe
<GuyLavoie> ao, you could put up to four 8 ohm speakers, all wired in parallel
<WayneW> yes, martin, you can connect up to 4 speakers
<David0126> M1 is an advanced security and home automation control.
<AutomatedOutlet> Both sets of wires into the same output - thanks
<Stinger> Howdy
<AutomatedOutlet> i figured it had the juice for it
<David0126> The M1 has up to 208 zones with 16 on the main control.
<bravesirrobbin> David, I often touted the Elk M1 Gold as a cross between an Ocelot with its digital input and outpt modules and a Caddx security system
<David0126> It has a 2.5 amp switching power supply.
<justonemore> what can elk do for me that my motion sensors and door/window sensors run with homeseer cans?
<justonemore> can't (sorry)
<David0126> I think the automation programming is easier, with Whenever/and/then programming.
<WayneW> jom, it can be 100% reliable
<AutomatedOutlet> lot more reliable too
<Stinger> Plus it's certified for insurance
<GuyLavoie> David, do you have exmaples of it/then scripts somewhere?
<David0126> The M1 is designed to run forever without crashing.
<WayneW> is it UL listed yet?
<electron> hey guys
<GuyLavoie> examples...
<Stinger> hey dan
<AccessX10> howdy
<justonemore> I can appreciate the built in logic. But most of us can do same
<bravesirrobbin> David, Guy Lavoie is a good sounding board as he is an expert in the ladder logic CMax programming of the Ocelot
<GuyLavoie> whaddya mean "hey guys"...there's only one me ;-)
<justonemore> ins issues are VERY relevant though
<David0126> I will get the SetNet training site and you can see example programs.
<justonemore> as well al reliability
<fitzpatri8> See the training site? I'd like that.
<Squintz> lol guy
<justonemore> me too!
<fitzpatri8> Isn't integrating security and automation asking for trouble?
<justonemore> wow
<David0126> Training site from SetNet: http://www.setnetpro.com/store.asp
<justonemore> isn't using automation in one's house asking the same?
<AccessX10> David, can you share any information on the upcoming touchscreen controller?
<justonemore> sorry Fitz. very emotional about my setup.
<justonemore> my thinking is if I set it up. I know how it ticks
<David0126> The M1 integrates security and automation in a system designed to run forever. Homeseer can use the inputs and outputs to execute its programs.
<Stinger> It's like the stargate, but the M1 Gold is listed as an alarm panel
<Stinger> (ie. for ins)
<David0126> Touchscreen is still open. We are working on a system now. I do not know if it will be STN or TFT yet.
<fitzpatri8> (No offense taken. If my current HA crashes, my lights don't come on, but my alarm will still sound if I get burgled.)
<bravesirrobbin> Can you expand a little on the digital input and outputs of the Elk?
<bravesirrobbin> Maybe that will explain things better fitzp
<David0126> The M1 has 34 zone definitions including analog zone definitions.
<justonemore> I see your point with that fitz
<David0126> The zone definitions include all types of burglar, fire, police, medical, arm disarm, temperature.....
<justonemore> but I guess I am feeling too complacent thinking my security sys is just part of my HA sys
<smee> What about interfaces to other hardware? W800RF32, for example.
<David0126> You can write Rules on the burglar zones to control the other home automation functions like using motion detectors for light control.
<GuyLavoie> I'm still looking for scripting examples on the setnet site...
<David0126> The M1 interfaces to HAI, RCS, Aprilaire, ON
<David0126> OnQ alc, centralite, X10, Zwave, UPB lighting
<bravesirrobbin> any insteon planned?
<justonemore> David. Say I am a typical HomeSeer user......How can I incorporate your security product into my homegrown system and what might it entain?
<David0126> We now even interface to Creston and AMX
<bravesirrobbin> ok, now you lost points
<AccessX10> When you say interfaces to HAI, can you elaborate on that?
<bravesirrobbin> hehe
<smee> Is supporting new hardware something that the end user can do?
<smee> I'm thinking hardware that doesn't send/receive messages that the M1 uses.
<Mark> AccessX10 - HAI thermostat
<David0126> We have an open archicture ASCII data bus that you can use Homeseer to control the M1 and gather data from the M1 to control other things.
<fitzpatri8> What happens when an attached device crashes, or in the case of X10, starts reporting a signal storm?
<justonemore> dumb it up please
<smee> So if I want to connect a W800, I'll need to go through a computer first?
<David0126> We can send custom ASCII strings to any equipment and recognize custom ASCII strings.
<justonemore> that is correct for the W800\
<smee> ok.
<smee> I'm not actually sure what the W800 messages look like.
<David0126> I plead ignorance on the W800. Not familiar with it.
<justonemore> the W800 is basicly a RF security receiver that works like a serial dongle
<justonemore> I believe
<smee> receives all x10 RF, normal HA and security.
<justonemore> y
<smee> Like a "super-MR26A"
<justonemore> pretty much
<justonemore> I just installed mine yesturday
<David0126> If the W800 sends out X10 power line commands we can recognize them and react to them to control things.
<justonemore> I unplugged my MR and all MS and such is still received
<Mark> David - Any additional platforms you plan to support in addition to Crestron, etc.
<justonemore> Plus still receives security sigs from my DS10As
<David0126> Elan, Novu is in the works.
<Mark> Lutron...hint...hint..
<AccessX10> Russound?
<David0126> Lutron Radio Ra is on the list. We have the protocol, just not done yet.
<GuyLavoie> Kind of funny to see the name "elan", which is the word for an "elk" in french!
<justonemore> hehe
<David0126> Any device that can be controlled from an ASCII string we can control going out of the M1.
<bravesirrobbin> so, you can set up custom devices via all those serial ports then
<AutomatedOutlet> guy, only you would pick up on that one!
<GuyLavoie> are there multiple serial out ports?
<smee> are the serial ports buffered?
<bravesirrobbin> how many serial ports does the elk have, i thought a "bunch"
<David0126> We have one serial port on the control at 115K baud and expandable to 7 more.
<smee> interrupt driven?
<electron> even just supporting the MR26A would be a great asset, but I think the protocol might be too complicated
<David0126> Yes interrupt driven.
<GuyLavoie> and can the serial ports each be receiving at the same time?
<David0126> MR26A?
<bravesirrobbin> so the intent was to interface to devices such as serial controlled thermostats and such?
<bravesirrobbin> MR26A is another universal X-10 RF receiver
<smee> The W800 spits out 4 bytes (at least) for each incoming signal: http://www.wgldesigns.com/protocols/w800rf32_protocol.txt
<justonemore> E. U saying support of the MR26A in compilation with the elk?
<Mark> Has there been any discussion of having the M1 react to ASCII data coming into the Serial Port?
<AccessX10> BSR- pc's - programming, etc.
<justonemore> That might be sweet to incorporate already in use RF motion sensors
<WayneW> I think the MR26a and w800 might be too "low end" for their intended market... they already support Caddx wireless sensors
<David0126> We already react to custom ASCII string coming into the M1.
<AutomatedOutlet> good point wayne
<WayneW> just use "chepie geeks" wanting to use our $8 DS10a's
<David0126> Questions have been going by fast, if I missed any let me know/
<bravesirrobbin> I guess another question would be, how had would it be to support custom serial device, do you need a driver? Is the serial capability advanced enough in programming to create custom devices, etc...
<justonemore> then I guess consider me the "LOW END" GUY....CAUSE THAT 'S MY MAIN USEAGE
<WayneW> whats the speed of a swallow?
<GuyLavoie> gulp@
<fitzpatri8> African or European swallow?
<WayneW> no insult intended, I use DS10a's too, but I won't use them for mission critical stuff
<David0126> The serial port expander has custom drivers for the thermostats and lighting system other than X10. X10 support is built on the main control.
<justonemore> That's what my shotgun and dog are for
<bravesirrobbin> very cool
<bravesirrobbin> we need someone like smee to take a look at that protocal
<GuyLavoie> how is X10 interfaced? PSC-05? other?
<AutomatedOutlet> psco5
<GuyLavoie> so it can't receive extended X10?
<WayneW> so no preset dim support, right?
<David0126> You can download the serial protocol from the website: m1dealer.elkproducts.com
<Mark> Serial Received - Never saw that until now...Thanks
<fitzpatri8> How are the HA functions split out from security features? Can I trust an end-user not to screw up security while playing with HA?
<pauL> you cant trust an end user.
<pauL> at all
<AccessX10>
<fitzpatri8> I resemble that remark!
<David0126> We have preset dim support for all the devices, including X10
<AutomatedOutlet> guy, that's what i have installed on mine (PSC05) not sure if you could use other interfaces
<David0126> The home automation functions are all programmed from a PC. The security functions are programmed from the keypad or PC.
<GuyLavoie> yes, preset dim is a "standard" x10 command. a psc-05 can also send extended (eg. Leviton) direct dims, but can't receive them
<David0126> The PSC05 does not do extended.
<GuyLavoie> it does for sending, but not receiving
<AccessX10> David- keypad mic and speaker - can they be accessed from an external device?
<David0126> Yes it only transmits extended.
<David0126> We have a two way listen in module kit that can be accessed from any telephone anywhere on the M1.
<AccessX10> OK, so I couldn't broadcast HomeSeer voices and use the Mic for VR?
<bravesirrobbin> The Elk has an "on-board" voice vocabulary correct
<electron> So if I understand this right, 1-wire would be supporting using a simple serial interface?
<AutomatedOutlet> 500 words - is that going to be increased soon david?
<justonemore> OT. I swear I'm gonna REALLY read up on 1-wire.
<David0126> There are over 500 voice phrase built in with upto 60 seconds of custom recorded voices that you record from a telephone connected to the system.
<hotwire> Is it possible to control Lutron Radio RA with the serial port on a M1 gold?
<smee> To see the serial protocol, do you need to log in?
<justonemore> How-to's bookmared though
<David0126> Radio Ra is in development.
<DavidL> hi all
<justonemore> hi
<AccessX10> hey
<David0126> You can download all the manuals and support literature now with no log in.
<GuyLavoie> where?
<smee> where?
<justonemore> ditto
<David0126> M1dealer.elkproducts.com is the website.
<smee> I'm there, but I can't find anything.
<David0126> Hang on I will check the site.
<bravesirrobbin> do you need a password?
<justonemore> It's kinda late....and on a FRI night after a long week. Give us a direct URL so we can bookmark for later viewing
<AutomatedOutlet> not for the manuals. i can also email it to anyone
<bravesirrobbin> smee, do you understand the protocol of the elk then?
<bravesirrobbin> serial port i mean
<smee> no - I can't find it.
<bravesirrobbin> ok, well no pressure, but we are all relying on you to figure this out for us
<AutomatedOutlet> smee, pm me your email and i'll send it to you
<GuyLavoie> same here ao...
<AutomatedOutlet> k
<David0126> My mistake on the download page: http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/m1documentation.htm
<AutomatedOutlet> ah, ok
<justonemore> well....after tonight ..... I think I'm going to be ording about 5 more DS10A's from you Martin
<smee> ok. Thanks, David.
<smee> and thanks, AO.
<AutomatedOutlet> sure
<fitzpatri8> That should clear things up a bit.
<bravesirrobbin> David, can you expand a little on the analog input cabability of teh Elk
<AutomatedOutlet> david, are there plans for future releases to have larger vocabularies?
<David0126> All inputs send the analog level back to the main control. Therefore we have the analog information available.
<AccessX10> David, any plans for alternate keypad solutions (other then touchscreen)?
<David0126> Write a rule that checks the analog level of a zone on a time basis along with an And rule to control things.
<David0126> We are working on some foreign languages now. More words need to be requested. New decora keypad is coming.
<brian> I was thinking to have Elk setup up as a monitor for hs computer if something happens call elk and have it reset puter remotely
<David0126> It is quite easy to monitor a computer and if it crashes, the M1 can disconnect power and repower. I do it with my Vonage Telephone system.
<fitzpatri8> Automatic watchdog. That's handy.
<David0126> The M1 has both software and hardware watchdogs on board. Only way to go.
<fitzpatri8> How does it react to an X10 signal storm?
<brian> david did you describe how you do this anywhere?
<David0126> When the Vonage dies, I get a telephone fault. I trigger a rule on the telephone fault and cycle the Vonage power.
<GuyLavoie> I've finally found a programming example! It looks ladder logic-like, somewhat like a JDS controller and an Ocelot.
<fitzpatri8> Guy, have a link?
<GuyLavoie> which leads me to ask: can you set variables or flage to "communicate" between "rules"?
<AutomatedOutlet> yep doing that here too - resets my routers
<David0126> There are 64, 16 bit counter that can act like flags and be used in any rule.
<GuyLavoie> I found an example in the downloadable installation manual, page 55 of the pdf
<GuyLavoie> those who know me know that I thrive on ladder logic...
<electron> I love ladder logic, my entire life is based on it
<GuyLavoie> everyone gone to look at the manual?
<electron> yea looks like it
<smee> guilty
<fitzpatri8> Yup!
<GuyLavoie> good!
<electron> so what do you guys think about being able to monitor the 1-wire stuff
<WayneW> 1-wire support should be on the to-do list
<smee> still trying to figure out serial devices
<David0126> We are developing a stand alone prox reader board that may have the dallas IButton on it.
<GuyLavoie> guys, I have to go now but I want to read this a bit later so I'm going to stay connected, but will be absent from the screen
<smee> 1-wire is fairly complicated - probably best with a "smart" interface - like a TEMP08
<AutomatedOutlet> later guy!
<electron> Guy, I will post the transcript on Cocoon tonight or tomorrow, thanks for stopping by tho!
<GuyLavoie> later all!
<justonemore> l8r guy
<WayneW> so build the temp08 into an official Elk M1 module
<justonemore> there ya go
<David0126> I will try to compile some Rule examples.
<electron> Does the M1 have as much memory/flexibility as the Ocelot when it comes to HA programming ?
<brian> Now just get Elk to do IR and no need for ocelot
<smee> How much memory and how slow does reaction become when it's full.
<smee> ?
<justonemore> dave.....we have been pulling on you quite a bit. I suggest you have a beer and we re-convine under more social circumstances! hehe
<AutomatedOutlet> YEAH - how about an IR module??
<David0126> We have been relying on companies like the Ocelot to provide IR. Squeaky wheels get the grease though.
<smee> found the number of rules in the manual: M1: 100 rules, M1G 528
<WayneW> each rule can have many lines of code in it
<WayneW> a complex if-then-else is only 1 rule
<smee> but I assume that many large rules will eat up memory.
<David0126> A Rule is a Whenever/Then statement. An AND or additional Thens are a Rule.
<smee> ok.
<David0126> Next software release will have more users and Rules.
<fitzpatri8> I like what I see in the manual so far... how many more rules?
<smee> It looks like the strings that can be sent out serial ports have to come from a canned list?
<pauL> an ability to shock the end user when he/she does something stupid would be a nice touch
<fitzpatri8> LOL!
<pauL> people dont like it when i sneak up on them with a cattle prod
<pauL> why'd you touch that? *ZAP*
<smee> I have a laptop power supply here that might do that.
<David0126> The strings come from a canned list with variable add ins.
<smee> Can you control the format of the variable add ins?
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, i set up a rule for one of the guys that comes in. if he disarms the system in the morning it says "You have been violated, thank you"
<smee> each text message counts as a rule, too.
<David0126> Every 8 characters count as a rule. Variable formating is very limited in this software release. What do you want?
<smee> Thanks. don't know yet. decimal -> binary type conversions
<David0126> The nice thing is that as we release new software releases, you just download them and reprogram the M1 and its peripherals.
<smee> How much room do you have left for firmware?
<AutomatedOutlet> 562 GB
<AutomatedOutlet> hehe
<WayneW> is there enough memory on board for all planned growth?
<David0126> No decimal to binary in this release, but a good idea.
<David0126> We have the next version processor in the works that will not have a memory problem. Currently things are tight at 256K.
<Mark> How will the new version be handled for upgrades?
<David0126> Same as now. Download upgrades from the website and reflash them.
<Mark> I mean the next version processor
<David0126> The next processor upgrades like the current processor, but more code space is available.
<smee> What processor is it using, if you don't mind the question?
<David0126> Coldfire!
<WayneW> what is upgrade process to new process o& more memory?
<brian> I think hes mean for existing elk m1 owners is there something in place to upgrade are panels?
<David0126> When Elk has software changes you can upgrade you control to the latest software without have to buy memory chips or send it back to the factory.
<David0126> There will be continued support for the current processor. You will not see a new processor for over a year.
<Treetop> evenin' all
<AutomatedOutlet> hey tt
<Mark> I would like to thank David for all the help he has provided to me during the HS Elk-M1 Plug-in build.
<David0126> You are welcome mark. You need an ethernet module now.
<AutomatedOutlet> i'd like to thank him for dealing with this barrage he's gotten tonight and hopefully well see him as a regular at cocoontech
<Mark> You're right!
<Treetop> what I miss!
<Treetop> lol
<Treetop> I pinged out
<David0126> This has been an experience. The great thing is the questions you as help to decide what is needed next. Keep asking the questions,
<AutomatedOutlet> did harleydude ever show up?
<fitzpatri8> Thanks David! Is there a place on your website I can hear a sample of the M1 talking?
<AutomatedOutlet> david, how do i get one of my motion sensors not to affect the arming of the system if the motion sensor is near the keypad?
<AutomatedOutlet> must be a setting
<Mark> AO - Just stop moving...hehe...
<David0126> I do not believe there is a sound example available to listen to. Good idea.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, that's hard for me to do sometimes
<fitzpatri8> (Martin, that's always been impossible on systems I've worked with.)
<David0126> Program the motion detector as a Force Arm Zone.
<AutomatedOutlet> ok, what will that do for me?
<AutomatedOutlet> "force armable"?
<David0126> If the motion detect is active it will be temporily bypassed and restored into the system when motion quits.
<AutomatedOutlet> cool
<AutomatedOutlet> just did it - i love how it's so easy to program!
<fitzpatri8> If motion quits while arming, and it force arms, won't it go off when he turns to leave?
<AutomatedOutlet> tsting now
<David0126> Make the garage door force armable and you can leave it open when arming. Close the door and it goes back into the system.
<smee> I'm playing with the ElkRP demo. In particular, I'm setting up a rule for serial inputs. Whenever the following text is received "Some Text" ... Is there a way to act on "random" data coming in, like a temperature value?
<David0126> Make it a delay or interior zone and once armed it will not restore until the exit time expires.
<AutomatedOutlet> not quite doing it
<AutomatedOutlet> ah
<AutomatedOutlet> definition 7?
<David0126> You can make characters wildcards or ignored and react on the remaining characters.
<AutomatedOutlet> intereor night delay?
<AutomatedOutlet> is that what i want?
<electron> hi dwayne!
<dwayne> Hello all
<AutomatedOutlet> guess i'll try it
<smee> If a string coming in looks like "T1,75" is there any way I can use the "1" and "75"?
<David0126> Interior night delay is used to put interior zones back into the system when arming in the Stay mode. Such as a basement or garage.
<AutomatedOutlet> which zone number should i use then?
<Mark> How do you set a character to ignore or wildcard (*)?
<David0126> Zone definitions like 1 or 2, 4,5,6,7
<David0126> The string parsing is limited. I know what you want and will look into it.
<smee> Thanks. This would be useful for adding things like 1-wire or a W800.
<AutomatedOutlet> David, that seemed to work. I set the zone at 07 -= buglar interior night delay and also have checked - force armable - is that right?
<David0126> The wild card setup is in the manual. I think is uses the '^' but I will have to check. Old age is setting in.
<David0126> Yes that should work as one option.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, seems to work the way i wanted it to - thanks!
<AutomatedOutlet> if there's a better way, please let me know though so i learn it
<David0126> You do not have to just use Interior night delay. The other zone types will work also to arm with a motion detector at the keypad.
<AutomatedOutlet> so, what would you suggest to set the type to then?
<David0126> Cross Zoning Option can be used with two motion detectors in the same room. both must go into alarm with 30 seconds to trigger an alarm.
<AutomatedOutlet> just burg, interior
<David0126> Being it is at the keypad, set it for Exit Delay 1 or 2.
<AutomatedOutlet> no, this isn't a pass though room though
<AutomatedOutlet> i have the front and rear contacts set to that too
<David0126> I need more info on the setup of the doors and motions to give a good response.
<AutomatedOutlet> guess maybe i should open up the manual. it still amazes me that i was able to set this thing up without the manual though
<David0126> It is pretty easy if you have some security experience. The keypad acts like a manual also.
<Mark> Good night everyone...Thanks David.
<AutomatedOutlet> I don't really have much at all. went to the caddx training last year but still never finished installing mine at the house right. i'm going to yank that out and replace it with an elk too.
<jayfro> I had a security salesman come to the door today.. It was a lot of fun knowing more than he did!
<HALMAN> Caddx is good but it does take a masters in physics to program.
<AutomatedOutlet> i did change that setting to burg, interior and it works fine like that too
<AutomatedOutlet> it's a pain in the butt
<AutomatedOutlet> jayfro - that's funny
<David0126> All exit entry and interior zones are delayed on exit.
<jayfro> even after telling him I had one, he wanted to sell me his "free" wireless system with $40 per month monitoring
<AutomatedOutlet> cool - it seems to be working great. i really like that prox reader i installed inthe keypad
<AutomatedOutlet> jayfro - probably one of those great x10 wireless ones!
<AutomatedOutlet> hehe
<Jello4> I've been thinking about the prox reader.
<David0126> If you set the Prox user code option to Access you can use the prox cards as a small access control system.
<Jello4> What is the max read distance?
<jayfro> it was the "Ademco" from "Honeywell".... he knew only what he read in a script
<AutomatedOutlet> need to be pretty close
<jayfro> in fact, I told him I had a wireless/wired hybrid, and he asked to see what a wired door sensor looked like
<brian> I considered it but didn't want anything else on keys guess i need to cut my hand open to put one in
<David0126> The prox reader in the keypad is about an inch, but use an external prox reader normally 4 inches but you can buy one up to 4 feet.
<AutomatedOutlet> david, any way to have it so you don't use up 2 user ids if a person has a 4 digit code and a prox card?
<DavidL> don't see krumpy here so i will ask a question he has asked - any chance that the elk can support a W800 wireless?
<DavidL> he wants to reuse his X10 wireless sensors to trigger an elk via W800 radio
<David0126> Use a 26 bit Weigand finger print reader. They work with no keys or codes.
<Jello4> ooh, there is an interesting idea!
<David0126> Any reader device that has 26 bit Weigand protocol output will work just like the prox reader.
<brian> I use caddx wireless keyfob any have ELk open the door
<AutomatedOutlet> did you say that you were coming out with an outside version?
<AutomatedOutlet> of the reader or keypad
<David0126> The reader in the keypad is a Rosslare. Just use one of their readers to make the cards or keyfobs compatible.
<David0126> HID or anyones 26 bit readers can be used.
<WayneW> why don't you sell a prox bundle of 5 discs & 5 cards? I don't need 10 of each
<AutomatedOutlet> wayne, we sell singles now
<David0126> They make an outdoor stainless steel keypad that has 26 bit Weigand output.
<AutomatedOutlet> one card also comes with the reader too
<AutomatedOutlet> i like the key fobs better though
<David0126> At ELK, we put the readers at butt level and put the credit card style cards in our bill folds in our rear pocket. Swipe your butt against the reader and you are in. We tell people it is a butt sniffer.
<brian> we have them at work too
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, but you have to get within one inch for that right?
<brian> No not that close
<WayneW> martin, the singles at $7, in bulk they are only $4.25... I am cheap!
<AutomatedOutlet> let me check - doesn't sound right
<David0126> No the external readers that can connect to the keypad has a 4 inch read range. But you can get longer read ranges.
<AutomatedOutlet> fixed it
<Cocooner> anyone still here?
<AutomatedOutlet> we added 100 new products last month - messed that one up....
<WayneW> thanks martin!
<AutomatedOutlet> sure, not sure where those other numbers came from but they weren't right
<David0126> M1 guys! Things have slowed down. I am getting to eat my dinner.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, it's about time for me to leave the office too and go home
<AutomatedOutlet> little burned out
<sdanks> The price you pay for being successful.
<AutomatedOutlet> wayne, thanks for letting me know about that
<Cocooner01> I just joind in - was the ethernet card discussed?
<David0126> It has been great. I have had a long day. Try to see you next Friday. Ethernet scheduled to release Monday.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, been trying to get electron to move here but no luck yet. need more people than what we have
<AutomatedOutlet> good because i have a pile of them on order
<sdanks> Automatedoutlet - I ordered a powerlinc from you a couple of weeks ago. Works well.
<AutomatedOutlet> looking forward to getting them in
<AutomatedOutlet> oh good, i'm glad you like it. that's what i use too
<smee> Thanks for answering all the questions, David.
<WayneW> so is the product line complete (for now) or is there more stuff coming out real soon?
<AutomatedOutlet> yes, thank you david!
<Cocooner01> I have an original card and the new software will not work with it. I was told today that it will be "soon" but I have head that for a while.
<David0126> Let me forwarn all you good distributors. Most people are ignorant of ethernet even though they think they know what is going on. Ethernet is going to require alot of tech support.
<AutomatedOutlet> what card?
<Cocooner01> ethernet card.
<David0126> The origional ethernet cards are to be replaced first. Free.
<AutomatedOutlet> yeah, i could see that .... it's one thing to connect the card but then what do you do with it...
<Cocooner01> I am awair of the replacement program. The question is will it be in a week or a year?
<AutomatedOutlet> are there setting in the rp software for smtp, etc?
<AutomatedOutlet> cocooner01 - i think you'll see it probably next week
<David0126> The origional ethernet modules were single connection. The new ones are multiple connection. The single connection cards that were shipped back in Jan/Feb are being replaced. They cannot be upgraded.
<Cocooner01> the new RP has everything for email for reporting to central monitoring as well as users. Now all we need is a good card.
<Cocooner01> My question is when will the new card be shipping?
<AutomatedOutlet> think he said probably monday
<David0126> The central station reporting currently is add in software at the central station until be get Osborn Hoffman's ethernet protocol.
<David0126> New ethernet is scheduled for Monday.
<Cocooner01> Great news if it is true. I have several on back order and one to replace. I will check in next week.
<AutomatedOutlet> i'm blasting off now - time to leave the office. talk to you later. thanks again david!
<David0126> My pleasure.
<Cocooner01> David - I thought I head a while back that a touch screen was in the works, is that true?
<Cocooner01> Or alternate panles in general?
<David0126> Yes. We are working on a 7.8 inch touchscreen.
<Cocooner01> that is great news!!!
<Cocooner01> Time frame for beta or a glimps?
<David0126> We have a smaller version of the M1 called the M1 EZ8 coming out in July. Betas are being shipped now.
<Cocooner01> This version has a touch screen?
<David0126> The touchscreen has to have plastic tooling done yet. 3rd- 4th quarter
<Cocooner01> what are the fundimental differances in the ez vs the gold?
<David0126> Ez8 has 8 zones, expandable to 200. No Voice or telephone remote control. Everything else is the same as M1 Gold.
<Chakara> Cool, David, glad your still here. I meant to be hear sooner, but got caught up in something at work.
<Chakara> I just got home, started to go work on my Gold, and then remembered you might still be here..hehe
<Cocooner01> Clients what touch screens, but do you think the functioning is worth it? Is there integration with other systems such as audio etc?
<David0126> We are here!
<Chakara> I'm loving the panel...don't have much (anything) done with it yet. More like bench testing some things, trying to keep the WAF up at the same time..haha
<Treetop> Clients want touchscreens?!? So do I! hehe
<David0126> It has a browser. If the other systems serve a webpage, it can communicate.
<Chakara> Hm, what kind of resolution? I may wait on my second keypad for something like that.....
<Cocooner01> Pricing? (yes I am punping you for as much as you will give)
<Cocooner01> Pictures?
<Cocooner01> give us a scoop!
<David0126> 640 X 480 resolution. We are also looking at integrating the Pepper Pad into the M1 family. www.pepper.com
<Treetop> C1, have you seen the videos yet?
<Cocooner01> No
<David0126> I do not know who is listening. Contact your favorite distributor for pricing.
<Chakara> Your killing me here - this thing is gonna break my pocketbook eventually!
<Cocooner01> What video
<DavidL> David0126 - any thoughts on the W800 question?
<Chakara> Oh yeah, that would be very nice (W800)
<Treetop> http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=1876
<Cocooner01> the touch screen has a price already??? The ethernet card wasn't priced untill the first version was out.
<smee> after looking at some of the programming, I think something like the W800 will need to be done in firmware.
<David0126> I am going to have to research the W800 and look at its protocol to see how compatible the M1 is.
<DavidL> thanx
<Chakara> I was wondering if anyone smarter than me had looked at that smee - the data from the W800 too dynamic for the serial expander rules (and 500 line limit?)
<smee> You can find the W800 at www.wgldesigns.com. They have the protocol: http://www.wgldesigns.com/protocols/w800rf32_protocol.txt
<David0126> Beta Zwave boards are due in about 4 weeks. Sign up for beta testing of Zwave.
<Treetop> W800?
<Treetop> I thought there were wireless sensors for the M1
<smee> W800RF32A - X10 RF receiver (normal devices and security). serial output.
<Treetop> man, I missed toooo much to night
<brian> where to sign up
<smee> I'm a fan of x10 palmpads for remote control - even if you don't use the security devices.
<Chakara> There are wireless - Caddx based ones. Much more expensive than X10 stuff....of course probably that much more reliable too.
<David0126> There is a wireless X10 receiver that puts out X10 on the power line. We can receive that signal now. I do not know the X10 part number of the wireless receiver however.
<Cocooner01> Is there an effort to have greater integration with Centralite?
<brian> dave who/where do I need to go and sign up for Zwave beta testing my house is all Zwave
<David0126> We operate with Centralite now. Any further integration has not been requested that I know about.
<Chakara> David0126 - the W800 can recieve the all X10 house codes at once, as well as X10 home security type transmitters.
<smee> but the serial from the W800 is faster (fewer steps getting to the M1) and it will handle the security devices, too. There aren't any transceivers that do that.
<Cocooner01> I have imediate client application for zwave. I am looking forward to the final release.
<Treetop> Sorry if this question has been asked tonight...
<Treetop> Can I get a discount with my homeowners insurance?
<David0126> Contact [email protected] and request to be considered for the Zwave beta test. You need a M1.
<Chakara> Basically David0126 - if you decide to recieve X10 RF directly in the ELK, the W800 is the device to do it with.
<Treetop> Allstate tld me that it had to be monitored...
<Treetop> I told em it was... emai and phone call
<brian> Monitored with my cell phone
<Treetop> me too
<Treetop> I even have it call my neighbors
<Chakara> http://www.wgldesigns.com/w800.html
<David0126> OK, I will look into the W800 more. Maybe it could interface with a serial port expander and let the serial port expander translate the data.
<Treetop> but it didnt quaify for cheaper insurance...
<Chakara> Most companies are like that - get monitoring month to month from a local company for cheap.
<David0126> UL listings are in the final throws. They are doing the 30000 operation test now. It takes weeks to complete.
<Treetop> mmm... maybe I should get a tax license then
<Cocooner01> I think the M1 is great. Equal to the M1 are the people at Elk. Brad is amazingly patiant in trouble shooting with me. I recomend the product because it, as well as the company are great. Please pass the thanks on the the great staff.
<brian> yes every exporence Elk has been number 1 i wish other manufactures would learn from you guys
<David0126> We all try to keep our customers happy and we listen to what you say.
<Chakara> Yeah, I have to say they have all been great. Staff on the different forums, basically all contact I've had with them has been excellent. Haven't used support yet (maybe won't have to...HA!).
<Cocooner01> You do a great job and it is appreciated!
<David0126> Wade Moose would have it no other way than customer satisfaction.
<dwayne> David, is the 7.8 touch screen the same one RCS has developed?
<David0126> We are partnering with RCS. Ours will have different software and maybe some different hardware features.
<dwayne> still winCE?
<DavidL> David - any decision on Flash on it?
<dwayne> I am the owner of RedRadio, by the way
<David0126> TFT LCD is still an option. It is WinCE. I would like to see a Flash player added. I think we can.
<dwayne> They did a great job with the 7.8 dual scan display, about as good as you can do without TFT. A TFT display will be more expensive.
<David0126> RedRadio discussion came up Wednesday.
<dwayne> Oh? Where the heck was I? lol
<David0126> RedRadio touchscreens is another option that we are looking at.
<Cocooner01> I am trying to find a picture of the RCS screen - does anyone know where one is posted?
<HALMAN> Dwayne what does one of the reference kits cost?
<dwayne> My personal feeling is that a home needs one larger touch screen, like the RCS 7.8, and lots of little ones, like ours.
<David0126> The touch screen is too deep in engineering to have pictures. If you were at the ISC show in Vegas, you could see a machined prototype made by RCS.
<dwayne> Retail on the R2718EV-A4 (PC, windows, 4 touch screens) is $2495. These are intended for developers/manufacturers and come with heavy engineering support. The actual cost for dealers/manufacturers is lower, but you need to be registered to get that info.
<David0126> I think the small touch screens are a great idea.
<Cocooner01> wasn't there. David, do you think it will be shown at the next Cedia?
<dwayne> Thanks David
<dwayne> I saw the RCS at the ISC show. Its a terrific product.
<David0126> For sure in September.
<dwayne> Kudos to them.
<Cocooner01> great.
<Cocooner01> Just checking . . .other keypad options in the works?
<dwayne> RedRadio?
<David0126> RedRadio is a very viable solution and should be made to work with the M1. We needed a single touch screen solution in the hundreds of dollars area.
<dwayne> We are deciding on our dual-gang size right now. It will be either 3.5, 3.8, 4.0 or 5.6 size. And it will be Quarter VGA.
<David0126> They say bigger is better.
<HALMAN> We will make it work with redradio via a mainlobby to ELK M1 Plugin
<Cocooner01> Another product I would like to see is an outdoor prox reader.
<HALMAN> 1/4 Screen Dwayne thats great!
<dwayne> Agree on bigger, but, the 4.0 and smaller fit in a standard dual gang wallplate. 5.6 will be oversize and wont match standard wallplates.
<David0126> You can buy an off the shelf Rosslare outdoor prox reader right now. It should be 26 bit Weigand protocol to work fine.
<dwayne> Thanks and you will be able to mix 1/8th, 1/4, and ultimately VGA all from the same video card. Mix and match.
<Cocooner01> OK - thanks. I have asked in the past and did not get that answer.
<dwayne> This is the product roadmap.
<HALMAN> Nice!
<David0126> We are developing an arming station that fits in a decora wall plate, single gang.
<dwayne> Anyone looked at the new Acenti designs? I like them alot. Want them in my house.
<dwayne> But nothing out there (HA wise) to fit them yet.
<David0126> Yea, they are a bigger opening for more stuff.
<dwayne> But fit in standard boxes
<dwayne> Its a very nice product
<Qubert> Sorry, Just now able to get to get here. Will a transcript of this chat be available?
<Chakara> According the messageboard, Qubert - yes it will sometime this weekend.
<Qubert> Thanx!
<David0126> I got to go to bed my wife is calling. See you next week.
<Qubert> Any news on an M1 Zwave?
<DavidL> thanx david
<dwayne> Thanks David, take care
<Chakara> Cya David0126 - thanks for the info!
