jenhazelton said:
...I am not any closer to determining what technology I want to use. So I have decided to post and ask for help.
...Next step will be to replace about 3-4 switches on my main level.
I have eliminated X10, UPB, Insteon, so it really comes down to zigbee or z-wave. ....
Jen,
Amazingly frustrating to get a handle on the choices isn't it? This was
my first post here, asking questions about Insteon. At that point, I had pretty much resolved to take my first steps with Insteon after a way long YEAR during which I alternately considered and began investing in (either time, money, or both): X10, Lutron hard-wired, ALC, A10, Lutron "Radio Ra", Crestron, Zigbee, Zwave, UPB, and finally Insteon (and I'm probably missing a few).
I think I can speak from some considerable recent experience with frustration when I say it's a madhouse out there right now (although it could be that just in the last few months it's begun to sort itself out at least a little ... or maybe I've finally paid my dues). It doesn't help that vendors want to sell you what they have, imo, and if they need to keep quiet about some "dirty little secrets" (e.g., zwave calls for 2 way communication in the spec but doesn't support it in any currently available implementations ... and vendors vested in zwave won't tell you this) in order to make a sale, too many are willing to do so. Maybe I am too hard on the vendors; it is, after all, like a food-fight right now and maybe they don't know the facts, either.
By "2 way" I mean that the switch broadcasts the the information any time its state has changed (someone flipped it by hand or a controller requested a state change; without this, no other device - including your house computer that is trying to orchestrate everything - can be sure whether the light is on or off ... I regard this a drop dead issue - even though I had a preposterous number of vendors tell me (once I called them on it) that it wasn't important (because, imo, their system couldn't do it; they can't do it so it can't be important...once they can do it, I expect these same people will tell you it is vital. This really happened to me, repeatedly in fact, and I am still ticked...and out of money).
Anyway, having recenty run the gauntlet of choosing, here is my take:
Zigbee is too far out from general availability - I suggest you not even consider it if you are looking for a solution anytime in the next few years. This standard is owned by Committee and you know the joke about how a camel is a horse designed by committee. This thing is way overpowered for normal household automation issues .. and this shows up in chip complexity, probably bugs, and cost. Do you want and need a jet to take you to the corner store?
Zwave may be okay, but hard to be sure, as real product (vs. vaporware and partial implementations) is only *just* now coming on the scene. In another year the truth here will hopefully be apparent (and the fact that Leviton went with this standard is very encouraging, imo, as I doubt they want to be associated with less than a sterling choice).
UPB>> is the safest bet in terms of complete, time-tested, "open" standards. I've not tested it in person but I almost went this way and will quite possibly pick up some of these, as well as some zwave, to play around.
Only reported downsides I've heard of: -fairly expensive (though cheap vs. Lutron ... and possibly also cheap if your time is really valuable); -a tad noisy (it buzzes every time it signals and some people find this to be irritating). -switches are large and not too glamorous and may be difficult to fit in a tight switchbox. -some reported problems of switches getting confused and gridlocked. -very small lag time between command and change in state (not generally considered a problem, unlike X10, but not quite instant). -lack of built in support for wireless control (will probably be worked around eventually, but the work around cannot be "native" as UPB is intrinsically fully power-line controlled)
Major pros: -professional HA people love it and vouch for its exceedingly high reliability -obviously it does support 2 way -has advanced software to aid in the process of mapping out and keeping control of your many switches.
UPB should be a top contender, I have no doubt, and many pros will tell you it is the ruling contender right now and likely for some time.
INSTEON>> I was late to this choice and may eventually have some major frustrations...though I am hopeful not too much as:
Pros: (1) Least expensive option - Switchlinc's are $39.95 and "ICON" brand is an unheard of $19.95 each. This, to me, makes it irresistable to at least buy a few and try them out. Trying them out, you will almost surely love them. UPB, by comparison may be - 3 or 4 times this cost (last time I checked?) (2) Really elegant look and feel to switches (3) taking the world by storm right now, with lots and lots of control system vendors testing beta software (4) Smarthome is the manufacturer and Smarthome is a 600 lb gorilla in this market. Smarthome is acting like they have "bet the company" on this technology and they are quickly addressing any bugs/problems reported and moving on. (5) Very fast and functional "2 way" with mutiple retry until a sent request is acknowledged as received (6) very easy to install and make use of without any need of a HA computer. (7) dual communication standard. The switches are powerline only, but any Insteon system requires at least 2 "switchlinc relays" which improve reliability and speed by communicating with each other using radio frenquency and putting any received transmissions on the power line (redundancy and signal amplification by each node is part of the standard). (8) the RF standard support means that future wireless remote control devices should be able to work with today's switches. I think this is going to be BIG (and a problem for UPB) but that is perhaps just my fantasy.
Cons: (1) no track record and poor software support, especially with regard to advanced functions of mapping and maintaining your network nodes (reportedly you can have a real problem if a node goes out) (2) high failure rate - possibly as high as 20-30% at present. Smarthome is reportedly good about replacements, but there is still a hassle (i had a failure which I've not yet reported to the vendor). (3) Bugs doubtless remain in hardware and software. Some have reported that Smarthome really didnt' design Insteon with central home automation computers in mind ... but is having to go back and address that now.
Lutron>> Pros: excellent, reliable system which looks like a million dollars. Supported by many HA controllers. Cons: (1) You probably spent almost a million dollars ;-) and, in terms of real functionality, are probably no better off than with UPB. I'm joking, obviously, about the million dollar purchase price, but it is at least 10x the cost of an insteon system with snobby salespeople.
Crestron>> Forget about it, unless you want to look down your nose at people who can "only" afford Lutron and, in turn, LIKE being treated like a mushroom (and a source of cash to be sucked) by salespeople.
X10 is way past obsolete so don't waste your time or money (you appear to already know this, but none of the recently published "how to" books even acknowledge it as obsolescent).
Zwave has recently had a slew of new products and may be better okay now Leviton or someone may have worked around the lack of 2 way communication The misinformation, disinformation, and confusion (deliberate and otherwise) really sucks.
----
I suggest you pick up a few Insteon and UPB and play with them. For maybe $500 you will have enough functional switches to figure out for yourself which you want to deploy more fully.
One parting thought (hopefully I won't have any others
: You CAN use more than one type of switch in your system as long as you are planning on a central HA controller to tie things together. So this isn't really an "all or nothing" choice as long as you select open standards and go slowly.
Hopefully all this helps. I know the folks here at Cocoontech have been invaluable .. worth more to me than the dozen or more other forums I visited before landing on this oasis of wisdom. Welcome!
