Discussion on Cingular's Unlimited Internet Plan

[BraveSirRobbin]

Post Edited April 22, 2007:

I was recently streaming my Slingbox to my mobile phone (Compaq Ipaq HW 6515). After an hour my phone would shut off and no longer have ANY Internet access.

This happened on two different days. I called customer service to see if I had any restrictions on my unlimited Internet access, even told them I was streaming a Slingbox, and they said I had unlimited access and the problem is probably with my phone.

They even sent me to the second level of support and he confirmed that it indeed is my phone because I don't have any limits on my Internet account. He went so far as to send me another phone so I could send this one back as it is still under warranty.

The second time this happened my phone would not even stay powered on! It would power off after a few seconds.

Well, I have a second phone exactly like this one (they mistakenly sent two to me when I ordered the phone a few months back) so I put the sim card in this second phone after I couldn't get any Internet access and guess what, still no Internet access (which means it is NOT the phone).

Well today (which is another new day) my phone (original one) is working exactly as it should. I have Internet access and can even stream my Slingbox once again.

So I (mistakenly) thought Cingular is limiting the Internet access on their unlimited access plans. (See posts below on the explanation):

I looked under the terms of use/service agreement and found nothing stating that I had any kind of bandwidth restrictions. Matter of fact the only restriction that I know of is that you should not tether your phone to a laptop so it is acting like a gateway/modem for its Internet access (which I don't do).

 

[ivan]

sorry... but your logic is crap.

You said "after an hour my phone would shut off"

So, you think Cingular's sending a mysterious signal to your phone to cause it to power off?

More likely, it is because you have the piece of crap IPAQ.
The device has 64 MB of RAM (or perhaps 128 MB). The OS, the programs, and all your temporary files are stored in this memory. When all the memory's used, the device shuts off. Pretty simple, really.

As for the second device not being able to connect to the data portal, perhaps the data settings are misconfigured.

Check out Cingular's device support tutorials to confirm your settings.

 

[Micah]

sorry... but your logic is crap.

Glad to know we've got such a HA heavy hitter to weigh in with his well thought out response based on years of experience from tinkering and playing.

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum. Now let me be the first to tell you to shut your trap.

BSR, have you found anyone else having this same type of problem?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

ivan, welcome to CocoonTech. It is always good to get a different perspective/opinion to a problem.

I really don't think it is my "piece of crap IPAQ". In both cases (i.e. both days that I had this problem) the phone worked perfectly the next day (without making any changes to the device).

Also, I made sure this was repeatable, which is why I did the test on another day. Again, I was streaming for an hour (almost to the minute) both times! Both times the Internet access would not be available till the next day. The second time this happened I even tried multiple times to access the Internet well into the evening. Access was not returned till the next morning.

Micah, I did do a search and have not found anyone reporting this exact problem, though there are a lot of people mentioning bandwidth limits on their "unlimited" accounts.

I looked over my account settings with Cingular and could only find the word "unlimited" in describing the Internet access. Wanting to make sure I truly had unlimited access I sent the following question to Cingular's Wireless Email Customer Service Department.

Q1:Enter the wireless number associated with the account you're
inquiring about
A1:***-***-****

Q2lease enter your phone question below:
A2o I have true unlimited Internet access with my plan for my phone
(i.e. without time/bandwidth limitations)?

Here is the Email response I received.

Dear ************,

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail Cingular Wireless regarding your media net availability. I am happy to help you with your inquiry and I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I have reviewed your account and you have the PDA Connect unlimited which would allow you to use all the media net transfer you want. Text messaging is .15 cents per message in and out, and .20 per message out to international locations. This is on your ***-***-**** line only, the other two lines on your account will be charged .0195 cents per kilobyte of data transferred.

Have you heard about Cingular * Services? There are four services that we currently offer. You can check your minutes by pressing *646#, then pressing the call button. You can check your data usage by pressing *3282#, then pressing the call button.  You can check your balance by pressing *225#, then call. You can also make a payment by pressing *729, then call. This service is available 24 hours a day/7 days a week and it is free of charge.

I hope that the information provided has been helpful and has resolved all of your questions. If you need further assistance, feel free to reply to this e-mail or contact customer service at 1-800-331-0500 or
611 from your Cingular Wireless phone.

I encourage you to visit our web site (www.cingular.com) often to view current and previous monthly statements, make payments and to shop for new product and service offerings. Thank you for allowing Cingular Wireless to serve as your wireless company. We will do our best to ensure that your wireless experience is a success.

Sincerely,

Ray Doucet
Cingular is now the new AT&T
Online Customer Care Professional

 

[politics123]

BSR--

A few questions:
1) What type of service are you receiving? EDGE, UMTS, GPRS?
2) Were you connected to the same towers in all cases (eg: similar location)
3) It is certainly conceivable that there is a usage threshold. Count your packets over the course of a few days and figure out if there's any logic in where the cut offs are.
4) Its also possibly a firmware conflict with the phones (that happened to me all the time... multiple phones of the same type all stopped working). Try a different make of phone and see if that gets you anywere
4) Still, in the absense of any proof, its just as likely that they're having network/tower/router/problems.

Why not push back a little more than you have been and figure out whether they're sincere or not:
a ) Keep a log of all outtages
b ) Call Cingular for each outage, tell them that its not your phone, that there network sucks, and demand 1 day of service credit for the outtage

There are risks: they could cancel you (which makes it more likely they really were screwing with your account, but even then, they could cancel you for excess numbers of calls requesting adjustments). They could decide to take a different approach to churn you out (send you a bill for 'fraudulent' usage, or just permanently disconnect you for fraud)

 

[mustangcoupe]

try the second phone on a day when you have normal internet access. verify both phones get internet and then hit your slingbox with the second phone and see if it times out, then switch your card and try the internet and then your slingbox. Report back to us what happens.

 

[dcdemon813]

HEY!
i work for them, first off. you will find that the unlimited service is unlimited. BUT! if you are downloading too much stuff(or streaming), your connection will automatically time out for a few minutes. this is something the network does automatically. (goto a corp store and pick up a booklet on data plans or laptop plans and read the fine print). the best way to describe is... there are many cell towers at one location, each pointing in a different direction to provide signal to the proper areas- more towers facing one direction, the stronger the signal.
why does this matter? well, were all, more or less, geeks on here. sooo, you have a router at home that has four computer connecting to the internet through that access point.
one computer is downloading from bit torrent, another is from limewire- and theyre both movies(or tv shows for this case). and the other two want to get on. and theyre connection SUCKS, cuz all the bandwidth is being used to download stuff. you wont be able to get a good connection all night/day cuz the service is clogged. doesnt even matter if its dsl or cable(edge/3g) its taking all the action away from others. so the towers will automatically reset to even distribute the signal to everyone, not just the people who are constantly downloading things.
i prob made things more hard than they already are. all the equipment is good, and its not a limited service- u just cant have a constant (heavy) stream ofstuff without interfering with someone else's signal that they paid for as well, so they are automatic things to stop data hoggs. .... like yourself.
i really hope your not streamin things to your device when the TV is in the next room.
peace

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Thanks for the reply and welcome to CocoonTech.

I am not doubting your explanation, but I really don't think this was my problem (tower traffic) as I could also not get any connection when I went home that evening (different tower site).

Also, this lasted for the late evening and into the night (i.e. more then a few minutes). Wasn't till the next morning when I could regain my Internet access.

As for being a "data hog" I say "NI" to you! I only watched my Slingbox that long the day of the VT Shootings and then again to see if I could repeat the problem.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hmmm, I hate to admit it, but there may be something to dcdemon813's tower theory above. Politics123 also hinted about using a different tower.

I was doing a third test at home (different location than the first two tests) and also at 10:00 PM (instead of during peak business hours). I was streaming the Slingbox and it cut off after about one hour and twenty minutes of use. I was able to reconnect right after this stream failed though, unlike the first two times.

So, it seems dcdemon813 & politics123 may be correct. I will have to do a fourth test in my office (same tower site as the first two tests) and also during peak hours (when I get some time).

Thanks again all for the replies.

 

[Skibum]

Hey BSR...

Did you read the terms?

Prohibited and Permissible Uses: Data Service sessions may be conducted only for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) corporate intranet access (including access to corporate email, customer relationship management, sales force automation, and field service automation applications). PROHIBITED USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS, TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS; (II) AS SUBSTITUTE OR BACKUP FOR PRIVATE LINES OR DEDICATED DATA CONNECTIONS; (III) FOR VOICE OVER IP; (IV) IN CONJUNCTION WITH WWAN OR OTHER APPLICATIONS OR DEVICES WHICH AGGREGATE USAGE FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES PRIOR TO TRANSMISSION; (V) USING THE SERVICES FOR ANY ACTIVITY THAT ADVERSELY AFFECTS THE ABILITY OF OTHER PEOPLE OR SYSTEMS TO USE EITHER THE SERVICES OR OTHER PARTIES' INTERNET-BASED RESOURCES INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO EXCESSIVE CONSUMPTION OF NETWORK OR SYSTEM RESOURCES (WHETHER INTENTIONAL OR UNINTENTIONAL) AND "DENIAL OF SERVICE" (DOS) ATTACKS AGAINST ANOTHER NETWORK HOST OR INDIVIDUAL USER; OR (VI) INTERFERENCE WITH OR DISRUPTION OF OTHER NETWORK USERS, NETWORK SERVICES OR NETWORK EQUIPMENT. EXCEPT FOR CONTENT FORMATTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH CINGULAR'S CONTENT STANDARDS, UNLIMITED PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR UPLOADING, DOWNLOADING OR STREAMING OF VIDEO CONTENT (E.G. MOVIES, TV), MUSIC OR GAMES. FURTHERMORE, UNLIMITED PLANS (EXCEPT FOR DATACONNECT AND BLACKBERRY TETHERED) CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY APPLICATIONS THAT TETHER THE DEVICE (THROUGH USE OF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, CONNECTION KITS, OTHER PHONE/PDA-TO-COMPUTER ACCESSORIES, BLUETOOTH® OR ANY OTHER WIRELESS TECHNOLOGY) TO LAPTOPS, PCS, OR OTHER EQUIPMENT FOR ANY PURPOSE.

Seems like a prettty clear and straightforward policy. (Not one that I like... but)

 

[Steve]

Morgan (BSR),

I truly have to admit I find your attitude and tone horrendous. Yes, I work for Cingular/AT&T and you know that (now everyone does). For a technical professional your post was nothing like your detailed how-to's. I'm glad you put the same effort in before you just go around making accusations without knowing facts. Even as an employee I will be the first to admit when Cingular has problems and does something wrong. I have even suggested people switch carriers in certain circumstances. But I am also the first one to jump up and offer help whenever I can. If you simply asked what was going on I would have found an engineering manager that could answer/explain your situtation, but instead, based on a few test you simply rant telling people Cingular sucks and to stay away - what kind of message does that send about your professionalism and an admin here. And you know, because you saw it in the chat room when someone pointed you to a thread on Howard forums that Verizon and T-Mo DO have limits while advertising unlimited. I honestly do not know whether the explanations above are true or not or if Cingular does have certain facilities in place to cut off usage if it will endanger the network. If offered to help you in the past until you went off like a madman threatening to sue, thats when I backed off. If people would just stop getting all crazy emotional and see what facts are life would be so much more pleasureable.

If you hate AT&T so much, I would encourage you to switch carriers - what is the point of sticking with something that makes you unhappy all the time?

I appreciate your passion and your willingness to help people around here, you just really need to channel your frustration better. Shame on you personally and shame on you for using this site as your ranting platform.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hello Steve;

Thanks for your reply. I would like to address some of your statements.

I truly have to admit I find your attitude and tone horrendous. Yes, I work for Cingular/AT&T and you know that (now everyone does). For a technical professional your post was nothing like your detailed how-to's. I'm glad you put the same effort in before you just go around making accusations without knowing facts.

I actually toned down my post quite a bit before posting. I do admit posting the “unlimited” definition from Dictionary.com was a bit extreme. As far as knowing facts, I thought I had performed enough tests by duplicating the same disconnect/access cut-off (within a few minutes) as the first time. Both times Internet connectivity was not restored till the next day. I did make the effort (took an hour) to perform this second test before posting.

If you simply asked what was going on I would have found an engineering manager that could answer/explain your situation, but instead, based on a few test you simply rant telling people Cingular sucks and to stay away - what kind of message does that send about your professionalism and an admin here.

Again, I performed the testing listed above and was able to duplicate the problem. If I came to the wrong conclusion, I would be the first to admit it. If you noticed in my last post above I did admit that dcdemon813 was in fact correct, that the problem is most likely with the tower site.

As far as “rant telling people Cingular sucks and to stay away” please re-read my original post. The “run away, run away” may be excessive, but it is also a reference to a Monty Python movie (trying to also inject humor). If you noticed my handle I am a Monty Python fan. Perhaps that wording should have been chosen better based on your response.

Also, please refer to my original post and try to find the statement “Cingular sucks”. I agree such a statement would be unprofessional in a post here. Matter of fact, scan the entire thread and note who used that word .

If offered to help you in the past until you went off like a madman threatening to sue, thats when I backed off. If people would just stop getting all crazy emotional and see what facts are life would be so much more pleasurable.

Sorry, but when exactly did I ask for your help here? A year or so ago I did send you a (private) Email asking for addresses for the purpose of sending registered letters/subpoenas after an exhausting period of getting incorrect charges (over $300 worth), and having gone through hours of being on the phone with customer service over many days, constantly getting pinged around to different departments and managers without any resolve. I don’t see where that has any relevance to this post. As far as “going off like a madman” I think that statement is a little extreme.

If you hate AT&T so much, I would encourage you to switch carriers - what is the point of sticking with something that makes you unhappy all the time?

Yes, I agree totally and I will investigate this after my current contract obligations have expired.

I appreciate your passion and your willingness to help people around here, you just really need to channel your frustration better.

Thanks for the compliment. You yourself (as the sixth highest poster on CocoonTech) also go to great lengths to help other as well. As far as channeling my frustrations better, the only thing I should have done differently was not post the definition of “unlimited” and word the humor/sarcasm (“run away, run away”) better. As far as the chat is concerned, that is a little more of a “free for all” and gets a lot of people venting frustrations all the time (factual or otherwise) as it is more “real time”.

Shame on you personally and shame on you for using this site as your ranting platform.

I’m truly sorry you feel this way. I certainly hope I didn’t start a trend here on our forums. Next thing you know our membership will start ranting about other items such as home automation software product’s performance (especially during upgrade/revisions), automated lighting protocol’s not working properly, etc…

In all seriousness, as a valued member of our forums, if you feel strongly about some of the above statements in my posts, please let me know of the offending words and I will edit them out. I will even delete the entire thread and repost if necessary.

Connectivity of this type to cellular phones is getting more and more common and I believe it is a matter of time till a lot of us explore various features that let us connect our home automation/theater systems to them. When I first obtained the “unlimited Internet” access I specifically asked the supervisor of customer sales at that time if I can stream video of my home security cameras (I didn’t have a Slingbox at that time). The answer (after she searched around a bit) was yes, because it is unlimited. I even went so far as telling her the method of streaming I would be using.

This was the main reason of getting the Internet access for my phone. So I could connect to the features implemented with my home security/automation system. Granted this did not at first take into account using a Slingbox, but, because of recent news events, I was on longer than normal and noticed a repeatable problem with the service.

I do feel strongly that other forum members here should know about these types of limitations so they do not fall down the same patch as I did, nor obtain/pay for a service that they will find out later, has problems with the implementation methodology they intended.

I am not actually listing all the details on my customer service experience when I called them, but just let me quickly summarize it by telling you over an hours time was spent with four different people, and the conclusion that they came up with was not only incorrect, but now I have to go through the hassle of returning a working phone via the RMA process. Yes, this experience did influence my posting above.

Regards,

BSR

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hi Skibum;

PROHIBITED USES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, USING SERVICES: (I) WITH SERVER DEVICES OR WITH HOST COMPUTER APPLICATIONS, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WEB CAMERA POSTS OR BROADCASTS, CONTINUOUS JPEG FILE TRANSFERS, AUTOMATIC DATA FEEDS, TELEMETRY APPLICATIONS, PEER-TO-PEER (P2P) FILE SHARING, AUTOMATED FUNCTIONS OR ANY OTHER MACHINE-TO-MACHINE APPLICATIONS;

I actually interpreted this (maybe incorrectly) that this was illegal if doing it "continuously". Of course one could argue that streaming for over an hours time violates the agreement.

Matter of fact, re-reading this you could make the interpretation that ANY such actions are a violation, thus making devices such as Slingbox and it's software SlingPlayer Mobile illegal alltogether (even if used for a minute).

 

[Steve]

BSR,

I am not going to go into a point by point pis**** match with you because I have more respect for you than that and we are both above that.

The bottom line for me is that your post is full of the words 'fraud' and 'illegal' and I take those allegations seriously. I think the biggest issue you have is perhaps a customer service experience, which, while not right is a bit to common for large companies selling technical services. But, on the flip side, how many companies would at least trry to 'fix' the problem by sending you replacement equipment immediately? Yes, unfortunately it is the wrong solution to the wrong problem, but at least they tried.

Whatever the 'legalities' are, any company running a network has a personal responsibility to protect ALL of its customers. In reality, ALL networks are finite. If you know of any type of network that can handle thousands of customers streaming video at the same time, please let me know. If my web host advertises 'unlimited' bandwidth but everyone of their subscribers tries to stream for hours at a time, what do you think will happen. If all the users where you work try to download files at the same time, what's going to happen? That's why people use Bits and other throttling or protection strategies.

So, I think it is more like "Unlimited until it is sense to cause a network outage or impact to all users". I don't know exactly what the specifics are either, but I think it should pretty logical to guys like us that there is some sort of protective throttling happening and not fraud and illegal activity. But I do intend to contact and engineer and find out what the mechanism is, even for my own knowledge.

So, there you have it - saying things like "fraud", "illegal" and "run away" can have serious implications and is simply not appropriate, not funny and not called for unless you have documented proof of intent to defraud.

And yes, I agree there are disconnects between what appears to be the terms ski pointed to and what cust service tells you, thats just where you need to escalate to a knowledeable person/department or call on your 'friends' here before you call foul. We are all human and make mistakes and sometimes vent innapropriately in the heat of the moment and thats what I see here.

Oh, and it is my understanding that even if your service is cut off, you can always make a 911 call from a cell phone, regardless of the carrier. If your phone was actually powering down and not turning back on, that definitely sounds like a firmware/hardware problem.

Now can we please get back to some fun stuff, education, etc which is what we're all here for

 

[Skibum]

My interpretation is never.
That has been backed up whenever I call and inquire about VOIP.