Elk Keypad Choice

[SteveS]

Hello,
 
This is my first post.  I'm preparing to order an ELK M1G.  I'm thinking of ordering the M1GSYS3 from automated outlet.com.  I'm replacing a 19 year-old DSC panel with eight hardwired zones.  Initially I will just replace it without adding capability, but plan to add wireless zones later.  We currently have two DSC keypads that are frustrating to use because there is no text display -- just LEDs next to zone numbers and arm status.  All but the most basic operations are done with numerical codes.
 
I have two questions.  My wife pretty much anti-tech so I thought it would be better to have the M1KPNAV for ease of use.  First, is there any downside to having two M1KPNAVs instead of the more basic keypads?  Second, my DSC keypads have a four-conductor wire to the panel.  I thought I read that the KPNAV has a six-conductor connector.  Does it need more than four conductors to the ELK panel?
 
Thanks,
Steve S.

 

[RAL]

Each of the keypads have pros and cons.  I don't have a KPNAV, but some common complaints are that the screen is a bit small, and it is not as easy to use the function keys (i.e. it takes multiple touches, rather than a single touch with the other keypads).  Also, the KP2 allows you to mount a speaker behind the keypad for audio.  With the KPNAV, you'll need to figure out some other way of mounting one.
 
If your 4-wire cables are home run back to the panel from each keypad location, then you'll need a M1DBHR retrofit hub in order to connect them to the M1.  Note that this is different from the M1DBH, which uses 6-wire CATx cables.

 

[Del91574]

From having installed every Elk keypad out there, I personally prefer the standard KP's because they can have prox installed internally, have the extra function keys, the keys are covered themselves, and the built in temperature. I've put in a bunch of KP2's on spec/request and even with the speaker behind it, I don't see the attraction, even with the flush wall plate.

 

[ddennerline]

I have a KP1 and KP3. The KP3 is located in bedroom because I thought the lid would provide some shading. Unfortunately, the lid hinge has not worn out, and the lid will not stay closed.  I am going to buy  a KP1 for same reasons that DEL mentions. I would have bought the M1KPNAV touchscreen had Elk made the screen a little bigger, added extra function keys, and a temperature sensor.

 

[mikefamig]

I installed a KP in the detached garage and a KP2 in the house and I do wish that the KP2 had the two extra function keys that the KP has.
 
The reason that I used the kp2 in the house is because you can mount a speaker in the box behind the keypad. It is in a very visible spot in the house I didn't want to see a speaker. Add to that the fact that it is flush mount and I just prefer the way that it looks.
 
The reason that I used the KP in the garage is because I wanted the thermometer in the garage and if you want M1togo or ekeypad to have six function keys then you need at least one of your physical keypads to have all six function keys. This is because the software just emulates the keypads.
 
Mike.

 

[ecborgoyn]

Same here.  I have a KP in an attached garage.  Two interior KP2's so that I can have the integral speaker (looks better too).  And a KP in the basement near the panel.  Too bad Elk doesn't have a better looking keypad with six function keys, a temp sensor, and integral speaker....  I'm guessing that the integral prox RFID reader module isn't that important in most residential environments.

 

[Del91574]

I usually end up installing a flush speaker in the general vicinity of the KP and don't have too many issues with the sound.
 
Running a prox reader to the outside from the keypad is more common for me than putting Zwave locks. Distance becomes an issue.
 
While I'd love a little shallower profile, larger buttons and less of a kidney shape (traditional rectangular/electrical device profile) it is what it is IMHO. The display size, buttons and a few other key features usually dictate what I choose to install vs. what an end user would specify.

 

[crossbar]

I have a KP for the main entry and a KP2 (blue) for the Bedroom.
 
I believe the KP is the only keypad with a speaker (for the beeps only no voice) but allows volume adjustment of the beeps.  The others only have on or off for the beep volume (button key press beeps and alarm sounds are at the same volume no way to turn off key beeps but still have alarm sounds).  The KP2 with the blue LCD display also has blue button back lighting.  The KP with green LCD has amber button back lighting.   I don't know about the others but the KP2 has a bug that causes the the back light to flash to full intensity for a split second periodically when set to a low level.  I have one in our bedroom and notice it at night but it's not too annoying.  Initially I just thought there was lighting outside until I figured out what was going on. 
 
The KP display is larger so you can read it from a greater distance.   With the KP you can display the internal keypad temperature alternating with the date/time plus you can add one additional temperature sensor display from a temperature sensor or keypad (but not from thermostats) via a rule.  With the other Keypads you can only display one temperature alternating with the data/time (without using function keys).  So with the KP you can have Inside temp and Outside temp both alternating on the display.
 
Looks like the KP has the same back-light flashing issue.  I was just watching it now and it flashed to full intensity for split second.   For a bedroom you can turn off the back light but then you can't see the state of the F Keys without pressing a button to activate the back light (if you use the F keys for visual status of something like the garage door , etc.)  This is a point to think about as well if you want a keypad with a keypad door cover.  When the cover is on you can't see that F key lights.  The KP has 2 F keys that are not covered by the keypad cover.

 

[Del91574]

KP flash is a known bug in the M1 that hasn't been addressed.
 
I have KPB's installed (liked the look of the old Moose Z1100E's). Wish Elk had either modified the key colors or kept the same soft menu features of the old Z1100E. I've also had the KP speakers fail (Elk was nice enough to advance me some).

 

[ddennerline]

> little shallower profile, larger buttons and less of a kidney shape
 
I agree. I have never figured out why there is a need for five different keypads. In my mind, Elk should have just two keypads a touch/GUI and enhanced/traditional alarm. The enhanced alarm would combine all the best features of KP1/2/3. In addition, it would be nice if keypad had same proximity motion sensor as OmniPro2, so you can disable the back-lighting for bedroom and not have to fumble to find keys in dark.

 

[drvnbysound]

> little shallower profile, larger buttons and less of a kidney shape
 
I agree. I have never figured out why there is a need for five different keypads. In my mind, Elk should have just two keypads a touch/GUI and enhanced/traditional alarm. The enhanced alarm would combine all the best features of KP1/2/3. In addition, it would be nice if keypad had same proximity motion sensor as OmniPro2, so you can disable the back-lighting for bedroom and not have to fumble to find keys in dark.

 
Why does Nike have so many options for shoes?
 
There isn't a need for 5 different keypads... there are 5 different options that you get to choose from
 
I've installed a KPB, KP2, and KPNAV. I wish the KPNAV was larger - I'd certainly be more apt to convert to them if it were - I don't have any of the KPNAVs in my home. I'm interested in the KPAS for my detached workshop, but may end up with a KPB there for it's prox integration and temp sensor.

 

[Del91574]

> little shallower profile, larger buttons and less of a kidney shape
 
I agree. I have never figured out why there is a need for five different keypads. In my mind, Elk should have just two keypads a touch/GUI and enhanced/traditional alarm. The enhanced alarm would combine all the best features of KP1/2/3. In addition, it would be nice if keypad had same proximity motion sensor as OmniPro2, so you can disable the back-lighting for bedroom and not have to fumble to find keys in dark.

Elk was originally only the KP. The KP2 came out as a response for a flush mount, with the KPAS as a "cheap LED" version of a keypad, which happened to be a gang size.
 
The KP3 came out as a response to get a "traditional" styled KP out there, which also just happens to match the Ness product line. They always offered their own touchscreen based off the Win CE and software, but the price was the killer, so out came the NAV, which is a direct competition for the Elk contemporary panels (Honeywell, DSC, etc.) Can't compete when you can buy a sub $200 TS vs. Elk's $700-1000 option at the time.
 
The good thing about Elk, however, from an integrator standpoint, is the hardware is the same, no different KP's based on the system (back in the days of the M1, the M1G and EZ8 when they all existed). Try that with, say, Napco.

 

[ddennerline]

DEL thanks for providing he backstory. It would be nice to have one really good keypad. For me, the M1KPNAV screen is too small, physical buttons are missing (that light up), and no temperature sensor. The M1KPNAV is 3.5” while the Honeywell equivalent is 7”.  If I want to execute “night time” scene, I don’t’ want to have to fumble to find the small Function buttons. The big plus with KP keypads is ability to quickly press a function button. My wife can double press Stay and F3 in about 2 seconds. 

 

[SteveS]

Thanks to everyone for all the good input. I thought I had decided on two KPs but it is Black Friday and I want to purchase today. I didn't realize until now that the M1GSYS4STW is $743 and the M1GSYS4 is $710. The more expensive kit has the KP2 but also has the two way transceiver. I don't need that right away but figure I'll need it later when I add wireless ELK modules.

Those who prefer the KP, is it worth paying more in the end by buying the transceiver separately. I think I'm leaning toward the package with the KP2 to get the transceiver, then add the KP to my order.

thanks for your help!

 

[Del91574]

Personally, I don't see the appeal of Elk wireless for anything but keyfobs, and even that's a stretch IMHO.