Elk MG1 - Can I Interface to Both X10 and UPB?

[SteveInNorCal]

There is one PLC output on Elk MG1. How can I simultaneously interface to both X10 and UPB?

I have some legacy X10 gear by Leviton that still works fine. I'd rather upgrade my entire house to PulseWorx UPB, but that route is very expensive. I can save about $800 by sticking with the working X10 gear for now and maybe upgrade later.

I bought two interfaces:

1. XTB-523 X10 Powerline Interface from JV Digital Engineering
2. PIM-E Powerline Interface - ELK M1 from Elk (OEM from PCS)

So, how do I hook these two Interfaces up if there's only one PLC output port? Can I use the RS232 port to drive one PIM and the PLC port to drive the other? I have the ELK-M1XEP ethernet interface and need to reserve the RS232 port for communications between the M1XEP and the M1G. With the M1XEP, I will (of course) interface to the M1G via the home network.

Thanks for your help!

Steve

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Looks like that PIM connects to the data bus, just like an expander board. The Power Line Interface plugs into the RJ-11 type jack (phone jack) with the proper cable.

I'm sure others will chime in as well as I don't have one of those PIM's (just read the manual).

 

[SteveInNorCal]

Looks like that PIM connects to the data bus, just like an expander board. The Power Line Interface plugs into the RJ-11 type jack (phone jack) with the proper cable.

I'm sure others will chime in as well as I don't have one of those PIM's (just read the manual).

I've read the manual and it is woefully inadequate and maddeningly vague for this configuration:
Page 7: Lighting Interface Connection J5. Use 4-conductor wire to connect to PSC05, X10 PLC or equiv. Use RJ11 jack cable straight-thru. Set Jumper JP2 in 1-Way communication setting for PL513/PSC04. Set JP2 in 2-Way communication setting for TW523/PSC05.

Page 53, Section "Automation Rules and Attributes," Subsection "Lighting": "The available lighting formats are: Standard, Extended, Preset Dim, Compose, Serial Interface. The serial port format is for UPB, ALC, Centralite, others through an Elk-M1XSP Lighting/Thermostat/Serial Expander Interface. From the tear sheet: "M1XSP operates from the 4-wire (RS-485) M1 Keypad data bus, allowing RS-232 ports to be located long distances from the control."

I conclude:
1. XTB-523 (X10) - connect to J5 for X10 and set JP2 to 2-Way
2. PIM-E (UPB) - either connect to the on-board RS-232 or connect to an expansion M1XSP. I don't think I need the on-board RS-232 for anything else, so should be able to use it for the PIM-E connection.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

You are correct on the X-10 connection. You would have 'two way' communication.

Be aware that the Elk's ethernet module connects to the on-board serial port, so you will not have that available if you are planning an ethernet connection.

When I read the manual for the PIM, it looked to me like it used the databus (because of the description of the connections).

I'm positive that someone will chime in that is actually using that PIM.

 

[SteveInNorCal]

You are correct on the X-10 connection. You would have 'two way' communication.

Be aware that the Elk's ethernet module connects to the on-board serial port, so you will not have that available if you are planning an ethernet connection.

When I read the manual for the PIM, it looked to me like it used the databus (because of the description of the connections).

I'm positive that someone will chime in that is actually using that PIM.

Thanks, BSR. You are right about the data bus.

I went down to my local retailer (HomeTech Solutions in Cupertino, CA) and talked to Dick about it. Turns out the M1G documentation (p. 53) was not updated to reflect the introduction of the PIM-E in 2010. The PIM-E documentation (which I hadn't looked at previously) clearly says it connects to the RS-485 data bus, not to the serial port (as you say). Apparently an earlier PIM connected to RS-232 serial. So the correct configuration is:

1. XTB-523 (X10) - connect to J5 for X10 and set JP2 to 2-Way
2. PIM-E (UPB) - connect to the RS-485 data bus

Can somebody confirm? Thanks.

 

[tmbrown97]

That's correct - you can either use the PIM-E or you can use any serial UPB PIM connected to an M1XSP Serial Port Expander. The PIM-E is just a PIM and XSP in one.

You can use X10 and UPB at the same time, but there is a little trickery involved... The M1 only has one lighting space to track lighting - and it's shared among all integrated lighting protocols.

What that means is, if you look through the documentation - I think it's in the XSP and the main manual, what you'll find is a lighting address chart. Of the 255 lighting spaces that the M1 can handle, the charts will show you where they'll map (Address 1 in the M1 may be A1 in X10 - and it can be UnitID 1 in UPB). Where you can get into trouble is if you have UPB and X10 devices that map to the same address space on the M1. You have to number each device such that there is no overlap between the two technologies, otherwise you can end up triggering two devices at once. Luckily it's very easy to renumber UPB devices and X10 even for that matter.

Hope that makes sense - if not I can dig in deeper.

 

[SteveInNorCal]

Thanks for the alert on the numbering issue. Good to know.