Elk TS-07 Touchscreen

[rcharris]

All:

I notice that the Elk TS-07 Touchscreen is finally listed on the Elk Products M1 add-on components web-page. However, the documentation and manual are not yet available for download. I have been waiting for the touchscreen to appear, being intrigued by the idea of running other applications on it, in addition to using it as the primary arm-disarm keypad in the kitchen.

One thing I would like to do with it if possible is to use the CE web browser for access to things like weather, news, cooking web-sites, etc. The questions are:
1) How will this work, in practical terms?
2) How will one switch back and forth between keypad function and browser function?
3) Will there be issues where the keypad functionality is not available because it is stuck in one of these "other" app's and I'm scrambling to turn off the alarm?
4) What other useful CE-based applications are there?
5) Do any of the HA app's (CQC, HS, Girder, etc...) have CE versions?
6) What would All Y'all do with a TS-07 if you had one?
7) Is a touchscreen tablet running standard windows a better idea, leaving the keypad function out of it?

Bestest Regards,
Rod

 

[electron]

Girder/Netremote and CQC definitely have a CE client. I believe Mainlobby has a pocket pc client as well, but someone else will have to confirm this.

I personally run Netremote/Girder on my touchscreens. I definitely want to get one of these, and probably would run a combo of ElkRM and Netremote on it.

 

[Steve]

CQC will definitely run on it with their DNV (Dot Net Viewer). Dean and David worked together to make sure they were compatible. In CQC you would build an interface for all of your stuff and can simply have a web browser widget on one of the screens. You would simply build a nice interface with a 'global' menu system to switch you between all of the screens or functions (security, browser, weather, music, etc). The screen looked pretty nice at EHX, I would just like to perhaps see a smaller bezel or some options there.

 

[rcharris]

Girder/Netremote and CQC definitely have a CE client. I believe Mainlobby has a pocket pc client as well,

CQC will definitely run on it with their DNV (Dot Net Viewer).
You would simply build a nice interface with a 'global' menu system

Great! Now here is the Dumb Question (Dumb questions are good because if you don't ask them, all that dumb stays locked up inside your head. Better to get them out...) How does one build / compile a customized Girder / Netremote / CQC application for CE / Pocket PC? Is it done with a tool on the PC and then ported / downloaded? or is it done within the Pocket PC?

(My experience with PDA's and pocket PC's was back before they were ever networkable or WiFi. And today I use a simple Palm Tungsten, for low-cost simplicity. So I am not current on the capabilities and life-style integration of the modern stuff)

-Rod

 

[Steve]

Great! Now here is the Dumb Question (Dumb questions are good because if you don't ask them, all that dumb stays locked up inside your head. Better to get them out...)

Well, dumb replies are free but intelligent answers will cost ya .

With CQC you build your interfaces on a pc with the 'Interface Designer'. You then use the 'Interface Viewer' on a pc to use those screens. The DNV is essentially the interface viewer ported to work on CE or Windows Mobile 5. I believe the same interface can work on a pc via the regular viewer or on a pda with the DNV although the screens will most likely be designed in different sizes. You can see some examples of a PDA screen in the DNV at this thread or there are others on the CQC site. I'm sure Electron can answer about Girder/NR.

 

[Dean Roddey]

I think that the Elk touch screen has a CF card slot, right? So I guess (though I'm no expert in this area nd need to learn some more myslf), that the easiest way to do it would be to put the DNV on a CF card and run it from there. That would leave as much of the Elk's built in storage free for future Elk stuff and make it easier to update the DNV version by just pulling out the CF card, copying a new DNV to it, and plugging it back in.

Of course, for all I know it could be a lot more of a pain that I'm making it sound, I'm not sure yet.

 

[rcharris]

Okay, so build it on the PC, with interfaces designed to match the resolution of the TS-07.

Next dumb question: What exactly is the TS-07? Is it essentially a high-end PDA running CE or Mobile OS with Elk-RM permanently loaded into ROM or Flash? Would it run the normal applications available for a Windows CE or Mobile device? (I am sure that if the documentation were available on-line that would answer most of this question)

Could one use a standard PDA, mounted on the wall, with RM loaded as one of the app's? (granted there's power supply, network connection, etc to work out)

Maybe Spanky is reading this.....

Thanks
Rod

 

[Chris_RM]

The Elk-TS07 is a Windows CE 5.0 device running the .NET compact framework version 2.0. The reply above stating that the easiest way to put a third party program on the device is using the compact flash... Bingo! I couldn't agree more. The ElkRM program has a very small foot-print, so it is being ran out of NOR flash on the board. CQC and other third party softwares with the more graphical GUI's are a little bit larger because of the graphical capabilities that they have. Putting these on compact flash will leave you plenty of room to grow. ElkRM has a "LINKS" page that can be used to launch web pages that you would frequently browse to. But one feature that is commonly overlooked... You can also put shortcuts to other programs on this page as well. With that being said, if you are running a third party software, you can use ElkRM to launch them...

Hope this helps!

 

[toymaster458]

So the TS-07 boots and loads the Elk-RM by default. Can this be over rided so it load something like CQC instead at boot?

 

[rcharris]

Can this be over rided so it load something like CQC instead at boot?

Yes, I like that question. If one wanted the screen to be primarily a security keypad, then one might want Elk-RM to load on boot. But if security functions are only one part of the overall objective, then it might be nice to be able to select a different boot application. It might be nice to be able to configure it on the fly... It might be nice to have the M1 alter the default application based on what security mode is active: i.e. keypad when armed away, CQC when not armed or armed stay or nights, etc...

 

[Chris_RM]

Third party softwares can be made to boot on startup. As of right now there are no provisions as far as to boot separate programs based on what the security status is. The touch screen does not actually "talk" to the M1, the touch screen boots as a normal CE device, communications is established by the ElkRM software.

Thanks for the interest...

 

[rcharris]

Third party softwares can be made to boot on startup

Hmmm....
So, it could be an automation panel (i.e. CQC) by default (boot-up) or a security keypad by default.
The cost compared to a standard keypad makes it seem more valuable as an automation panel that can also serve as a keypad, rather than a keypad that can also do automation. Neither good nor bad, but that's how it is starting to seem to me. (IMO)
As such, a pc-touchscreen combination (hidden in the wall or closet behind the wall) emerges as an alternative to be compared.

Open Question to Cocooners:
What are the reasons you would select a) TS-07, UMPC, or c) dedicated mini-PC with touchscreen for use as an automation panel (that could incidentally connect to and control the security system). Just looking for varying thoughts here...

Thanks
Rod

 

[electron]

The TS-07 only requires one single wire (CAT5E), no need to worry about running USB/serial/power/vga/sound/network through your walls. It also would consume much less power than a PC, and it can be flush mounted into the wall. If you use an external PC, you also need to worry about location, since it has to be relatively close to the screen (in most cases). Since it runs CE, it's one less machine to worry about when it comes to updates/maintenance.

 

[Steve]

Well, I have a 15" ELO connected to a laptop so I'll share my opinions. Personally, I wanted a larger screen - 15 or even 17". I had the perfect wall for it and it is not too large at all. In fact, sometimes I wish I did the 17". While I really like my result, it is kind of a pain and not ideal to have a separate monitor and pc unless you have a really close by location to hide the pc. All else being equal I would prefer an all in one unit. But if you have an old pc or laptop and get a good deal on a wall mount monitor like I did it is hard to beat the price and flexibility of separate components.

If you have a properly setup interface, you can have it double as a keypad without a problem. You will still want a keypad somewhere there for the really low level stuff just in case.

As far as a TS-07 type device, if that is the right size for you it is an awesome device. I want a TS by the front door but I don't need anything as large or expensive as the TS-07. My ideal there would be like an Ademco 6270 keypad or the HAI color TS. It's more of a touchscreen keypad but not something that will run a separate interface like CQC. Elk is rumored to be looking at something like that down the road.

If the TS-07 were a TS-15 it would have been the perfect in wall device for me. A TS-04 or 05 if priced right would make a great keypad alternative.

So anyway, forgive the disjointed rambling but I like a TS-07 or separate TS and pc for main displays to do automation, internet, etc (your central intelligent controller) and would prefer a dumbed down TS (maybe a KP-TS) for other locations.

 

[rcharris]

The TS-07 only requires one single wire (CAT5E)

May I assume that this Cat5e is a connection to the house LAN?

-Rod