Elk vs DSC. Not seeing the appeal

[auzzzie]

I was intending to go with an Elk M1 system and even purchased a few pieces already (not enough to sway) me, but I'm now really starting to look at DSC. The more I do, I'm actually confused why Elk is so popular? 
 
DSC seems to have way more variety, in everything. Keypads, sensors, modules etc.
DSC pricing seems to be much more reasonable.
DSC has keypads that don't look like they're from the 1970s, they also have good looking/functional touchscreen options. 
 
What am I missing? What is the big appeal to Elk because so far from what I'm seeing, DSC checks off every Elk box plus more? 

 

[upstatemike]

I'm not familiar with DSC. What is the voice library like for spoken output? How is the automation engine? Elk has direct integration with my ISY994 and a lot of other products... What companies is DSC integrated with?

 

[ano]

I was intending to go with an Elk M1 system and even purchased a few pieces already (not enough to sway) me, but I'm now really starting to look at DSC. The more I do, I'm actually confused why Elk is so popular?

Could it be this is a board dedicated to home automation, but the DSC panels are just security panels without significant automation features?  Just a guess.
 
This would like me writing, "I can't figure out why the Audi A8 is so highly rated, I have a Chevy Spark LS that gets me to bingo every Saturday just fine." 
 
What type of features are you looking for? Home Security? Home Automation? Alarm Monitoring? Whole House Audio integration? Drapery Control? What type of hardware control? UPB, Zigbee, Zwave, X-10, Wi-Fi, other? Do you need voice control?
 
I don't think anyone here can offer any useful advice until you provide specifics.

 

[auzzzie]

ano, on 25 Oct 2018 - 12:14, said:
Could it be this is a board dedicated to home automation, but the DSC panels are just security panels without significant automation features? Just a guess.

This would like me writing, "I can't figure out why the Audi A8 is so highly rated, I have a Chevy Spark LS that gets me to bingo every Saturday just fine."

What type of features are you looking for? Home Security? Home Automation? Alarm Monitoring? Whole House Audio integration? Drapery Control? What type of hardware control? UPB, Zigbee, Zwave, X-10, Wi-Fi, other? Do you need voice control?

I don't think anyone here can offer any useful advice until you provide specifics.

Pretty ridiculous analogy. It was an honest question. Both are alarm panels, yes Elk offers hardware-based automation which in my additional research after posting, does seem to be the main appeal over DSC. I've read engineering wise some people actually knock Elk panels fro technical merits above my understanding. Does Elk offer anything on the security side that DSC can't do? If Elk was the 911TT to the VW beetle, your analogy might not be so far fetched but it's more the VW Beetle to the VW Beetle with the next motor up. If you're using something else for automation already, then Elk doesn't seem to really offer up anything compelling, and on the security side, DSC seems to have the advantages I mentioned in my original post. That is the conclusion I've come to thus far as a user of neither system, aka no dog in the fight other than trying to make the right choice.

I get the feeling I might have asked the question in an Elk centric forum, however.

I already use Homeseer, and by use I mean intend to as I haven't dedicated the time to having it do much just yet.

 

[auzzzie]

I just thought of a good example. With the Elk game plan, I have an exterior Weigand reader I intended to connect to the Elk Keypad so the reader would disarm the system, then the keypad output would trigger a relay for the electric door strike. 
 
I don't know if this level of basic logic is something pretty much all panels can do or if this falls under automation?

 

[RAL]

Pretty ridiculous analogy. It was an honest question. Both are alarm panels, yes Elk offers hardware-based automation which in my additional research after posting, does seem to be the main appeal over DSC. I've read engineering wise some people actually knock Elk panels fro technical merits above my understanding. Does Elk offer anything on the security side that DSC can't do? If Elk was the 911TT to the VW beetle, your analogy might not be so far fetched but it's more the VW Beetle to the VW Beetle with the next motor up. If you're using something else for automation already, then Elk doesn't seem to really offer up anything compelling, and on the security side, DSC seems to have the advantages I mentioned in my original post. That is the conclusion I've come to thus far as a user of neither system, aka no dog in the fight other than trying to make the right choice.

I get the feeling I might have asked the question in an Elk centric forum, however.

I already use Homeseer, and by use I mean intend to as I haven't dedicated the time to having it do much just yet.

 
Before I chose an alarm panel, I looked at Elk, HAI, DSC, Caddx, Honeywell.  I eventually decided on the Elk.  I came to the conclusion that DSC just didn't have the flexibility that Elk had.
 
One other factor is quality.  Since I can't provide first hand experience with multiple brands, I'll refer you to this post by another Cocoontech member who is a professional alarm system guy with knowledge of many brands.
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26961-basic-security-system/#entry217990

 

[mikefamig]

When I installed the Elk about 5 years ago I chose it for it's ability to logically control lighting and the ability to contact me directly by email, text and telephone. I also planned to  control a door lock or two but never got around to it. Elk support was also very helpful with installation problems.
 
Mike.

 

[pete_c]

Yes relating to a combo security and automation panel there is nothing out there except for the Elk and the OmniPro panels. 
 
 
Here have used Homeseer since the late 1990's.
 
The Homeseer / OmniPro panel integration came with first OmniPro 2 panel purchase in the early 2000's.  Always worked fine for me.

Ultrajones (Randy) who wrote the Homeseer Elk plugin has been around since the Homeseer 1 days. He does a very good job of supporting the current Homeseer 3 Elk plugin.
 
Personally the comparison to DSC relating to a combo panel (Elk or Leviton OmniPro) is not an apples to apples comparision.  Not even close.

 

[ano]

I just thought of a good example. With the Elk game plan, I have an exterior Weigand reader I intended to connect to the Elk Keypad so the reader would disarm the system, then the keypad output would trigger a relay for the electric door strike. 
 
I don't know if this level of basic logic is something pretty much all panels can do or if this falls under automation?

DSC, in the top model, does support an RFID keyfob to deactivate an alarm. You could probably add a relay to unlock a door. That isn't home automation. Home automation is making decisions using other criteria. HomeSeer and DSC can do some of this, but remember with HomeSeer you are using a PC or Unix so reliability doesn't approach that of of an ELK or Leviton OMNI.
 
I used HomeSeer many years ago, on a PC, and stupidly had it control something important like my thermostat. One day I came home and the house was like 95 degrees (I live in AZ) and HomeSeer was frozen.  That is when I switched to an Leviton Omni Pro II for everything, and its never not worked.

 

[lanbrown]

DSC, in the top model, does support an RFID keyfob to deactivate an alarm. You could probably add a relay to unlock a door. That isn't home automation. Home automation is making decisions using other criteria. HomeSeer and DSC can do some of this, but remember with HomeSeer you are using a PC or Unix so reliability doesn't approach that of of an ELK or Leviton OMNI.
 
I used HomeSeer many years ago, on a PC, and stupidly had it control something important like my thermostat. One day I came home and the house was like 95 degrees (I live in AZ) and HomeSeer was frozen.  That is when I switched to an Leviton Omni Pro II for everything, and its never not worked.

 
That is why in my home automation system that certain devices while can be controlled via the HA system, the are not reliant on the HA system.  My HA system is also redundant in that it is a VM and it can run on one of two ESXi servers.  If one server fails, that VM is spun up on the other.  I cannot have an overly hot house as there are dogs.
 
I'm also not constrained to say what ELK or Leviton says I can do or what I can use.

 

[RAL]

I'm also not constrained to say what ELK or Leviton says I can do or what I can use.

 
I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make.  Any system you choose, whether DSC, Elk, Omni, Homeseer or whatever will have constraints.  I think the folks here who have chosen Elk and Omni felt that those systems had more flexibility and fewer constraints for their purposes.   If you think DSC has fewer constraints for your needs, then go with it.  Everyone has different requirements.

 

[lanbrown]

In some HA systems they may just support one technology or deeply control what devices can be added.  Other systems are more open and you can add support for other types of devices.
 
An example might be an HA system that only supports ring and you wanted to use a different video doorbell.  Some systems are closed and that is not possible, others are open and that is possible.

 

[cobra]

DSC is an ok system.  You can also use DSC and integrate it with the Omni Lumina.  If for some reason you like Omni better than Elk, but don't want to go for a full OmniPro system.  There was a time when Omni Lumna's were on sale and it was a decent deal to combine with a lower cost DSC system.
 
Having said that, DSC has a lot of hardware, but it doesn't all work together.  So you have to do your homework when setting it up.  I put one in and have mixed emotions.  Their keypads do look better than some of the Elk and Omni keypads, which was the reason I tried one.  They also support wireless keypads, although I'm not really impressed with those.  Look decent, but kind of slow and a little touchy with their screen interface.  Works ok, just not as smooth as I would like.

 

[auzzzie]

Appreciate all the input gents, that does help me and clear up some of my confusion. I personally don't think I'll get too deep down the automation rabbit hole (famous last words?) as I just can't think of a lot of things I'd really need/want. Turning lights on and off based on occupancy is about as broad as I'm thinking currently. 
 
With that said, I think I'll go the DSC Powerseries route with an Envisalink interface w/ Homeseer plugin and touch keypads so they're not hideous blocks on my wall. If I find Homeseer unstable or unable to do what I want, then I'll likely go down the Elk or more likely, OmniPro path. 

 

[pete_c]

Here the OmniPro panel runs the heartbeat of the home and I utilize the Homeseer Omni plugin as an automation addendum to the OmniPro panel. 
 
The panel talks via X10, UPB, Zigbee, ZWave and testing a new Mosquitto/Samsung Smartthings interface posted here called OmniLinkBridge. 
 
Homeseer also speaks X10, UPB, ZWave and Mosquitto these days plus some other stuff.