Finally a reason for a camera

[RobNJ]

With the help of this forum I built my ELK M1 system a few years ago.  Still running flawless.  The intention was to “someday” get a camera system up and running.  After last week, got the needed push to do so.
 
We were waiting for a contractor to drop off an estimate at our house.  My wife was driving home and was just about to get to our drive and saw a white pickup backing out.  She saw the guy, waved and assumed it was the contractor.  She did not notice any name on the truck.  She could not find the estimate anywhere.  I asked her to call the contractor and find out if he left it behind and he said he was not at our house yet.  The neighbor said she saw the truck in our drive earlier in the morning as well.  We did get a few Amazon packages, which were still there near the garage.  Not sure if this was the guys intention or not.  So now this has me a bit spooked.  We were leaving for travels last week, so I quickly dug out an old android phone and a window suction cup mount and loaded a free app for motion monitoring.  Not ideal, but settled my fears with being away.
 
I have a bi-level home (aka raised ranch in some areas), so running wires from the ground level to the attic is a royal pain.  When I put my upstairs keypad and speaker in I run an extra CAT5 cable to the attic, hopefully thinking ahead.  But I have some questions:
 

• I am looking for IP cam, so would need to put a POE switch in the attic, as the idea is to keep the NVR in the bottom level.  Can these switches handle attic extreme temps ok?  Since I have only a single line to the attic, I limited myself.  I could pull multiple more CAT5 lines, but that would not be fun (should have made the hole bigger).
• I have eaves on the front and rear of the house, but not the sides (sorry should have taken some photos).  If I put the cams on the corners, front and rear, how do you deal with the gutter leader pipes that run down?  These would block some visibility, since I would like the cams to also cover the side of the house.
• I am all over on IP cams.  Tempting to go with low cost like Hikvision, but hearing the input of pros like DELInsalltions and his preference for Axis, makes me wonder if I would regret the low cost option if something goes wrong.
• NVRs are my biggest question mark, getting a headache looking at options.  Has anyone seen the Samsung units in operation? They have built in POE, which for me to use, I guess I would have to run home runs to the attic or mount the NVR in the attic, which I don’t think would be best for it’s life.  But these have some interesting options to them and input/outputs, that maybe I can link to the M1.  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1156777-REG/samsung_srn_873s_1tb_8_channel_nvr_with.html

Thanks in advance for the input.
 
-Rob

 

[johnboy70_99]

I ran multiple Cat5 runs from my basement switch location, and put the POE switch in the basement. I would recommend this over putting a switch in the attic.
 
I recommend the Axis products as well - I have 5 Axis cameras / Various models.
 
Rather than put cameras high up in the eaves I would concentrate on putting them on walls near the doors and entrances. They key is not to get visibility everywhere, but anywhere that someone would go to get in. You also want the cameras to be visible. They need to be fairly low and close to get good images. Having cameras clearly visible would hopefully have the effect of making someone avoid the house altogether and move on to the next one. Getting Cat5 cable to those locations can be tricky, but the results for me have been worth it.
 
The axis cameras have SD cards that can be set up to record to. I use that feature and Blue Iris to accomplish all of my recording and viewing needs.
 
Attached is a screen shot of the Blue Iris web UI
 
 
 
 

 

[RAL]

Placing the switch in the attic would not be something I would recommend.  The high temperatures might not kill the switch immediately, but will shorten its life.  An alternative would be to drop your attic wires into an upstairs closet and put the switch there.  That should be a lot easier to do than running additional wires to the lower level.  Mount the switch on the wall above the closet door where it won't be very noticeable.   You'll probably need to add an AC outlet in the closet as well for power.  Again, probably not too difficult a task.

 

[RobNJ]

Thanks johnboy, not seeing your attachment.
 
Is there a guide or website that anyone can recommend to plan the camera layout? With all the lense sizes and such, would like to better know what to order.  I was thinking of starting with the overview type cams in the eaves and adding the more focused entry cams as I build.
 

I ran multiple Cat5 runs from my basement switch location, and put the POE switch in the basement. I would recommend this over putting a switch in the attic.
 
I recommend the Axis products as well - I have 5 Axis cameras / Various models.
 
Rather than put cameras high up in the eaves I would concentrate on putting them on walls near the doors and entrances. They key is not to get visibility everywhere, but anywhere that someone would go to get in. You also want the cameras to be visible. They need to be fairly low and close to get good images. Having cameras clearly visible would hopefully have the effect of making someone avoid the house altogether and move on to the next one. Getting Cat5 cable to those locations can be tricky, but the results for me have been worth it.
 
The axis cameras have SD cards that can be set up to record to. I use that feature and Blue Iris to accomplish all of my recording and viewing needs.
 
Attached is a screen shot of the Blue Iris web UI

 

[drvnbysound]

To date, I've installed 28 HikVision cameras across 7 different homes in the past 2.5 years. Obviously, this isn't thousands to really get trends or real QA results, but I've yet to see any issue or failure with any of the cameras. The new models also have the built-in SD card (or maybe it's a MicroSD) slot for recording on-board. I paired them with NVRs running BlueIris.
 
I install Axis, Pelco, Samsung, and other cameras on a regular basis at my day job, but for a residential installation I have NO hesitation going with the HikVision cameras. They are pretty amazing for the price.
 
If you could provide some sort of blueprint or drawing of your home/yard I'm sure you could get a few suggestions on camera placement.

 

[RobNJ]

Thanks, I will work on the layout.
 
Any recommendation on NVR for home/residential use?  The models and brands are all over the place.  Obviously # of cams is a factor, but I am sure there are some brands that are more robust than others.
 

To date, I've installed 28 HikVision cameras across 7 different homes in the past 2.5 years. Obviously, this isn't thousands to really get trends or real QA results, but I've yet to see any issue or failure with any of the cameras. The new models also have the built-in SD card (or maybe it's a MicroSD) slot for recording on-board. I paired them with NVRs running BlueIris.
 
I install Axis, Pelco, Samsung, and other cameras on a regular basis at my day job, but for a residential installation I have NO hesitation going with the HikVision cameras. They are pretty amazing for the price.
 
If you could provide some sort of blueprint or drawing of your home/yard I'm sure you could get a few suggestions on camera placement.

 

[drvnbysound]

In 6 of the 7 installations mentioned above I custom built the computer and run the BlueIris NVR software. Obviously custom builds are not necessary, but something I like to do for my installs. Depending on how many cameras you think you are going to run I can probably give a decent recommendation on a processor series and what the rough CPU may be.

 

[bbrendon]

Best reason I have found for a cam. Would have never known about this guy.
https://youtu.be/MH-1pw0AyHU?t=55s

 

[drvnbysound]

Best reason I have found for a cam. Would have never known about this guy.
https://youtu.be/MH-1pw0AyHU?t=55s

 
That's a little guy... check out the furry guy who's been beating a path into my front yard:
https://www.youtube.com/user/drvnbysound

 

[mikefamig]

I install Axis, Pelco, Samsung, and other cameras on a regular basis at my day job, but for a residential installation I have NO hesitation going with the HikVision cameras. They are pretty amazing for the price.

 
Why do you not use Hikvision for commercial installs? What are their shortcomings?
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

 
Why do you not use Hikvision for commercial installs? What are their shortcomings?
 
Mike.

 
Not my choice... myself and at least 3 other co-workers have them (their numbers are not included above, since I didn't install them) and we've discussed it.
 
In our case, I would probably say it's support. I honestly don't know how good Hik's US support is, but I've only bought them direct from China. Generally speaking our systems have the gold plated support, so we deal with the Cisco's and Dell's for Enterprise solutions. Hence, my moving to a Cisco ISR in my home In my case for upgrade here, it was the price that I could get the ISR (eBay) along with feature set (firewall, 16-port POE, etc.).

 

[Del91574]

 
Why do you not use Hikvision for commercial installs? What are their shortcomings?
 
Mike.

Largest issue is support and compatibility with the major VMS systems out there. The one-off camera manufacturers may or may not have a unit that is supported with the VMS drivers. Factor in ONVIF issues (which, ironically, was supposed to do away with a lot of that) you're going to be hard pressed to find a deployment that has any number of cameras installed using anything but common manufacturers.
 
That said, ONVIF has a TON of flavors, again, ironic, but the same has to be said with what the actual VMS supports out of the camera for features....many ONVIF profiles just cover the video stream, but no further features. Running into that with a few panoramic/fisheye cameras on a couple of VMS platforms at the moment.

 

[pete_c]

@Rob,
 
Probably the most important and time consuming but not expensive things to do is put in your infrastructure. 
 
Today what is popular and established is using POE using catxx cable.
 
Here my original wiring was coaxial cable, LV power cable and multiple CatXX cables per camera in the early 2000's.
 
The camera connectivity evolved analog wise from using the coaxial/power to combined baluns via catxx to current POE.
 
The sandbox here is divided to "for use" and "for play". 
 
At work (global enterprise network than once had some 160K folks working) only Axis cameras where utilized relating to security and in the early days it was mostly relating to security rhetoric relating to a network security device type of stuff and whose money bucket it was related to.
 
The "for use" stuff uses Axis and Optex and Leviton/HAI and the "for play" is using whatever I can play with. (recently HD IP 3-5 MP cams).  I do make the "for play" work with the "for use" stuff these days sort of in a modular sense?
 
Here I have CCTV cameras that face each other, some at low levels and some at high levels. 
 
Every view sees 1-3 other cams these days.
 
It is up to you how much cable and where it is you want to install it and what you do with it.
 
Here all of my networking cables end up in a collected cable area and they are labeled.  There is only one area in the home where I have the collected cable area.
 
From the collected cable area the cameras go to a connected POE switch next to the managed switches where  it goes wherever.
 
Baby steps here relating to the planning of the infrastructure as that is the most important piece of your endeavor.
 
You can do a bunch of stuff too with the variety of lenses available these days for IP HD cameras.
 
Use a picture if you want of your home and pencil in where it would be optimal with what type of camera and lenses that you want to use.
 
Relating to LV wiring in general at the 10,000 foot view have a look here.  Ask questions and read before your spend.
[Guide] Wiring your new house 101
 
The CCTV forum folks are always looking at newer low cost cameras and here you will get a nice overview of what cameras do what and how much they are.  Here too there is a spreadsheet of different cameras.  Thing is that it is changing fo fast it is hard to follow these days.
 
Many folks here have gone with sticking to one MFG of camera and other multiple MFG's of cameras; similiar to software CCTV stuff and now hardware CCTV stuff. 
 
There are many Cocoontech folks here that have DIY'd their residential camera stuff and concurrently as mentioned above you have professionals that install residential CCTV.  It is up to you what it is you want to do.
 
If you want to install something plug n play and not touch it for 10 years then go with what is being utilized commercially; if you want to play buy cheap and more of it.  It is very easy to do these days.

 

[drvnbysound]

Largest issue is support and compatibility with the major VMS systems out there. The one-off camera manufacturers may or may not have a unit that is supported with the VMS drivers. Factor in ONVIF issues (which, ironically, was supposed to do away with a lot of that) you're going to be hard pressed to find a deployment that has any number of cameras installed using anything but common manufacturers.
 
That said, ONVIF has a TON of flavors, again, ironic, but the same has to be said with what the actual VMS supports out of the camera for features....many ONVIF profiles just cover the video stream, but no further features. Running into that with a few panoramic/fisheye cameras on a couple of VMS platforms at the moment.

 
In the unique cases, we generally add the cameras via their RTSP stream address until the driver is developed. We just have to manage the camera (resolution, fps, etc) from it's page directly vs having the VMS do those things.

 

[Del91574]

In the unique cases, we generally add the cameras via their RTSP stream address until the driver is developed. We just have to manage the camera (resolution, fps, etc) from it's page directly vs having the VMS do those things.

Done that also...too many times to count. Same with reverse engineering why the VMS can't connect or pull the stream (latest was Axis, of all cameras, and a encryption of the user/PW issue). The downside, is with some units, the enhanced features and capabilities can't be driven by the VMS or the recording server/NVR. Not saying it's not possible, say for a handful of cameras, but I would not recommend for the faint of heart or with a bunch of cameras.