HA/Security Choice

[Mike]

I wired my house extensively for network, video, telephone and the like and am getting ready to tie in a home automation controller/alarm.

For the alarm it would probably be less than a dozen wired contacts, 25 or so wireless sensors, at least 4 internal motion detectors, 2 smoke detectors and 1 to 2 keypads. I also plan on adding several outdoor camera's hoping to tie them in to a PC for hard drive based storage, and do the same for several internal cameras (I was considering the combination motion detector camera units but have only begun looking at them).

External cameras would be modulated onto unused channels and tied into the existing video distribution throughout the house.

I was thinking about tying this into a some form of media center pc (ms or otherwise) and would like control on integrating everthing from a software perspective (programming is not an issue).

I've been eyeing the HAI Omni II for some time, but it seems almost everyone here recommends Elk M1G and home seer.

Any recommendations or further opinions/comments?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I wired my house extensively for network, video, telephone and the like and am getting ready to tie in a home automation controller/alarm.

For the alarm it would probably be less than a dozen wired contacts, 25 or so wireless sensors?

Mike:

First question I have is why do you have that large amount of wireless sensors if the home was already wired for security?

Second is if you want to have flexibility with HA, then go with the Elk.

As far as cameras and such, do a search here, plenty of posts about cameras and software. HERE is a WebCam Software Matrix you may want to browse.

As far as getting anything to run off of MCE, you will not find many options there. mControl is just about the only thing related to this topic that will run in an MCE environment, and it will not support cameras yet.

Oh yea, welcome to CocoonTech.

BSR

 

[Mike]

Thanks for the welcome.

On the wiring part I wasn't clear I did not tackle security wiring at the time. I was able to rip open the walls when I bought the house, but had two many items to cover before we moved in to add security wiring at that time (and the person I had helping me, given I had not much time to work with with had no experience in doing security wiring which made it harder as well). I had a short period to get wiring put in, electrical work done and painting before we had to move in. The juggling alone for those was hard and was delayed as it was. Given the house construction (no basement in the front, brick construction) some of the areas are difficult to do even if I did go to open things up again (which my wife will not appreciate given everything has been painted last year).

Given that it seems the reliability of the wireless sensors are good (from what I have read, but am open for further comment) and the micro sensors are small enough to not be extremely noticeable, I thought that might be an acceptable path to take.

Good to hear the comment on MCE, I had started to see things along the same lines, but have not looked at the alternatives. I don't have a problem using other software packages on a living room pc type scenario (and expected the camera bit itself would most likely require it along with some new hardware, but I will check the links you noted). I saw that the other packages seemed to support HAI (which I was looking at) so I still saw an integration path even if MCE didn't make sense.

I have time on the media center concept, and I am not tied to MCE (especially since I would like the additional control) and am just hoping that the alarm/ha controller tie in at the end in some regard.

I'll look more through the existing Elk posts.

 

[Spanky]

Whatever control system you choose you will find the finest help available on the Web right here at Cocoontech.com.

I help solve the difficult problems that involve the inner workings of the control (if you buy ELK).


DS
ELK

 

[bfisher]

To add another option for you:

GE Caddx (now called Networx) is a good option as well. It does not provide any automation functions, but is a very solid, robust, flexible security system supporting both wired and wireless. When you are ready for automation, you would need to add an automation controller (this is why Elk M1 is recommended, it has automation capabilities built-in).

Personally, I have Caddx for security and HomeVisionPro for automation. To me, it gave me the most power and flexibility. I don't use a PC (Homeseer, etc) for any automation functionality (other than as a web interface, etc) so it's extremely reliable.

One negative to using wireless security sensors versus wired is cost... wired sensors can be installed for $3-4 per sensor, and wireless sensors are $40-$50 apiece. Some wireless sensors can support external sensors so you can wire several connected windows with 1 wireless transmitter.

 

[Mike]

Agreed on the cost of wireless. I don't think I'll be able to rip open the walls (although if the price is high enough maybe that justifies getting opened walls fixed), and avoiding that I think my only option for some of these is to run the wires on the outside under the siding.

Given this is for security purposes, I'm thinking this is a big no-no...


The front of the house is brick with no basement so it will be very messy running stuff on the inside (and difficult) so that may need wireless.

 

[Mike]

Ok, another question based on the recommendation of Elk M1G (which now makes much sense to me):

Are you using this with a central monitoring station, and are there any issues associated with this? I was anticipating possibly using a lower cost service such as www.alarmrelay.com for central monitoring. Any comments on compatibility or approach here?

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

The Elk is compatible with monitoring services.

 

[WayneW]

The Elk is compatible with monitoring services.

What about the cheaper DIY-friendly monitoring companies? I have been thinking about NextAlarm.com because they don't need a phoneline that I don't have. They do it with IP over broadband, but it isn't clear if you need their $119 adapter or if you could just use the Elk Ethernet module.

 

[Mike]

Can NextAlarm.com monitor my security system using a broadband Internet connection, instead of a regular telephone line?
In an industry first, NextAlarm.com is able to offer alarm monitoring over a broadband Internet connection, such as DSL or cable. With our broadband monitoring technology, you can convert your existing security system to be monitored over the Internet. The Abbra Professional Series is also fully compatible with broadband monitoring. At this time, there is no additional monitoring fee for service over the Internet, although some additional equipment may be required. T

Implies you need their adapter. They support VOIP as well, so if you use that is there a benefit to go broadband? Having traditional phone and broadband as well might make sense from redundancy however. I suppose the response time may be quicker (as is noted by the cell phone or radio links, but this may be overkill for most residential installations).

I have a traditional telco line and a VOIP line but have been considering going IP only.

The adapter and compatibility is below:

ABN Broadband Adapter

The ABN Broadband Adapter allows NextAlarm.com to monitor the Abbra and most other Contact ID enabled security systems, through your existing broadband Internet connection. The ABN Adapter comes pre-configured to work with NextAlarm.com, and requires minimal setup.
Supplied pre-configured and complete with adapter kit (required) and power supply, ready to connect to your alarm control panel.

Manufacturer: Abbra by NextAlarm.com
Compatible Models: Abbra Professional Series

Manufacturer: Ademco (Honeywell)
Compatible Models: Vista series (except Vista XM and Vista XT), Lynx series, 4110DL, 4110XM, 4120XM, 4130XM, 4140XM
Not Compatible Models: 4110, 4120, Vista XM, Vista XT

Manufacturer: ADT
Compatible Models: Safewatch Pro Series
Not Compatible Models: Safewatch Plus, Safewatch RF Series, Safewatch Entrepreneur

Manufacturer: Brinks
Compatible Models: None

Manufacturer: DSC
Compatible Models: PC580, PC1555, PC1555MX, PC1575, PC4010, PC5010, PC5020, ENVOY
Not Compatible Models: PC550, PC1500, PC1550, PC2500, PC2525, PC2350, PC2550, PC3000

Manufacturer: ELK
Compatible Models: M1 Gold

Manufacturer: FBI (Fire Burglary Instruments)
Compatible Models: XL2T, XL4600DL, XL4
Not Compatible Models: XL1, XL4600, XL4800, XL4800EZ

Manufacturer: HAI (Home Automation, Inc.)
Compatible Models: Omni Pro II
Not Compatible Models: Omni II

Manufacturer: GE (Caddx)
Compatible Models: Networx series, Ranger 9000, Ranger 9000e
Not Compatible Models: Ranger models other than 9000 and 9000e

Manufacturer: GE (ITI)
Compatible Models: Simon 2, Simon 3, Concord, Concord Express, Concord Ultra
Not Compatible Models: Caretaker, Caretaker Plus, Commander 2000

Manufacturer: NAPCO
Compatible Models: Gemini Series
Not Compatible Models: Magnum Alert Series

Manufacturer: Visonic
Compatible Models: PowerMax, PowerMax +

Click here for more details!

Price: $119.00

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

I switched to VOIP both in the house and the office and haven't looked back. I really like it. My home phone bill went from $70-$80 per month to about $25.

 

[WayneW]

I sent an email to NextAlarm. They replied that they don't support the Elk Ethernet interface at this time.

They did give me a link to a useful page that I didn't find on my own. They hid it too well for me. It answered a lot of my questions.
https://nextalarm.com/abn.jsp

I don't think they actually use VOIP at all, since VOIP is pretty unreliable for data.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Wayne,

Yeah, I agree. I think the way they do it is not with a voice channel but the internet.

In an industry first, NextAlarm.com is able to offer alarm monitoring over a broadband Internet connection, such as DSL or cable. With our broadband monitoring technology, you can convert your existing security system to be monitored over the Internet. The Abbra Professional Series is also fully compatible with broadband monitoring. At this time, there is no additional monitoring fee for service over the Internet, although some additional equipment may be required.

I don't understand about that email you got from them about not supporting the Elk. On their webpage HERE, they say they support it. Did they give you any other info about this?

 

[WayneW]

They don't support the Elk via the Ethernet interface (at this time, I pinged to see about future plans). They DO support the Elk via the regular RJ31X phone hookup using their ABN. But I am cheap and was trying to justify the versatile $200 Elk Ethernet interface module instead of the $119 ABN. But it isn't an OR question, yet.

 

[Mike]

I saw exactly where you were going with that Wayne (and I would have used the same justification I think...).

Then again I haven't even recieved my Elk yet... I liked the idea there though I am looking to get it setup and figure out how that differs from connecting it via serial to a computer (if I have this right) and using something like Homeseer.