HA Server Hardware review

[shenandoah75]

Hope this is the right forum for this type of question...



Well while i continue to agonize over the software decision, i've come to the conclusion my 600 athlon with 20G ata HD isn't gonna cut it... my mp3's skip when i move the mouse over jriver's window. not good! plus my music doesn't fit on the drive....

I built all my other boxes we have from scratch with the backbone currently consisting of Asus A8N-SLI + Athlon 64 ...

I want full atx with multiple PCI slots for expansion, etc, not micro. I am gonna dump it in a full big tower for now until i decide to rack mount or not t which point buy a better antec case (take 4 for rackmount, or fusion, etc)... was looking at maybe going with the Athlon Opteron / Asus K8N-LR... Any opinions? I read some reviews with major negatives being the interference of large cooling solutions like the big Zalman (which i use) with the PCI-x slot and that the x16 slot runs at x8. I'm assuming that's not a problem and that any pci-express card will run, just perhaps slower. I figure not a big deal if so...

Or do i really need a "server" board at all? I can get mb/processor/memory combos for the price i see this one at...



thx in advance
-brad

 

[Sacedog]

What will you be using the PC for? HA; HA and Audio Distribution; HA, audio, and video? That will help determine how much power you need.

I want full atx with multiple PCI slots for expansion, etc, not micro.

What other expansion capabilities do you need? If PC is to be used as HA, a serial expander; but this can be done via a USB serial expander. If audio, a good audio card, but a lot of MBs now come with great audio capabilities built onto the board. My current Intel board has the ability to rearrange the audio inputs/outputs on the rear to have two line-outs for multi-zone audio. If video, a good video card.

If this is just for HA and music, personally I would consider a smaller form factor.

I am gonna dump it in a full big tower for now until i decide to rack mount or not t which point buy a better antec case (take 4 for rackmount, or fusion, etc)... was looking at maybe going with the Athlon Opteron / Asus K8N-LR... Any opinions? I read some reviews with major negatives being the interfere of large colling solutions like the big Zalmans (which i use) with the PCI-x slot and that the x16 slot runs at x8. I'm assuming that's not a problem and that any pci-express card will run, just perhaps slower. I figure not a big deal if so...

Considering where your closet is located, cooling and noise will probably be an issue. Once again, I would consider a different form factor, that can be quited down easier than ATX. There are some good quality fans and power supplies that are pretty quite out there, but they can get expensive.

Or do i really need a "server" board at all? I can get mb/processor/memory combos for the price i see this one at...

I do not feel that you need a server board. There are so many great choices out there for desktop boards, even ones with hardware RAID. I oversee an IT department, and we have standardized on Intel boards. We used to use exclusively ASUS, but had way too many problems. Since we went to Intel, the number of hardware-related issues with our in-house built white boxes has gone down dramatically.



I will be going through this same delimma in about 6 months, when I go to install. I will probably build on an Intel board, and will seriously consider a mini-ITX board, in order to reduce noise and heat. However, I will be doing HA and audio only with this PC, and will only need to need serial expansion on it.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[shenandoah75]

HA (server / main client via touchscreen - via serial) and Audio Distribution in the short run. Potentially video further out (but i am willing to separate the HTPC aspects from HA if required when i reach that point)...

Expansion... namely using one PCI for the M-audio Delto for multi-zone audio... Figured that with so many of the smaller factors, i'd be in trouble if i even needed another (for firewire, whatever). If the PCI express access was really a problem, i could go to an older pci-version Matrox Millenium or something?

Closet - understood, but that Antec take series is supposed to be quiet. In regards to heat, i'm planning on venting via fan to a register installed above the door. I have an Antec neopower that is nearly dead silent i can use. The only thing making alot of noise in my tower now is the WD harddrive - that thing drives me nuts! My other cases (antec P150's?) are extremely quiet compared to that (with two case fans each). I'm willing to look at other form factors though... I guess i just want the rackmount option if needed - but that's currently in discussion if we really want to do tat at all, or just stick everything in the closet hidden.

thx again
-brad

 

[Sacedog]

Yep. Antec makes great cases. My last case was an Antec Sonata II, and it was silent! The only thing that made noticable noise was the video card fan.

I you are OK with seperating, I would definately consider a mini-ITX for the HA computer, and an Antec for the Audio/Video PC.

As for hard drives, WD drives are great, and I would also consider Seagate. Personally, I would stay away from Maxtor. We have had more issues by FAR with Maxtor drives, over any other. I would also use a Serial ATA drive, however, youshould probably stay away fromthe current generation 10k SATA drives. They can be fairly loud. The 7200 RPM SATA drives should be more than fast enough for your needs.

 

[damage]

i just upgraded my HA server to a core2 e6420 & ECS PT890T-A combo ($160 @ fry's). added 2gb of ram and an antec earth watts high efficiency power supply into the antec sonata case that housed my old server. it's the only server i have running for HA & media - i can even do xvid conversion on it and there is no noticeable delay in reactivity for the HA apps or music streaming. it runs considerably cooler than my athlon (core temp maxes out around 105F vs 135-140F for the athlon). with 3 hds, dvd burner, low end pcie graphics card and a few pci cards, it uses about 100W, 50W less than my similarly configured athlon system. so cooling and noise are less of a problem with the new server.

 

[IVB]

I went with a Core2Duo machine for my HTPC server so any stress by one application doesn't impact the other. I'm going to swap out the current 2.8GHz cpu/mobo for my CQC&CCTV server in a few months.

In my case, the SageTV machine could peg the cpu if i'm doing HD transcoding on the fly. A dual-cpu machine means that I don't have to worry about missing recordings if that happens since it's a different process.

I'm also finding that although CQC requires minimal CPU, the CCTV is pegging the 2.8GHz cpu. As a result, CQC runs slow. Swapping that out will protect against that.

I bought an Intel 965 mobo, so I got craploads of SATA, 3 PCI, 3PCIe 1x, and 1 PCIe 16x, along with VGA on the mobo so I don't even need a vidcard. Pretty sweet for $130ish (mobo alone).

 

[shenandoah75]

I think i'm looking at the following - sorry Sacedog - i like the idea of itx, but the atx cases/expansion for a lot of hard drives (esp using multiple for raid, etc), etc lead me back to ATX...


Intel MB D975XBXLKR (corrected - or maybe DG965RYCK w/ video and no S/PIDF)
Intel Core Duo 2.13
1G ram (PC6400)
sapphire ati radion 7000 (lite) - cheap and this board has no on-board video
zalman alcu cpu fan
(2) Seagate 160GB sata hds (mirrored - raid 1)
(1) sony DVDRom

~700 for the above...


have already:
(1) antec 500 W smart power supply
(1) Maudio Delta 410



Case tbd based on my decision to rack mount or not...

-brad

 

[IVB]

Forgot the OS, another $100 (if you go with XP).

The 2.13 is the 6400, right? That's some serious heft. What will be running on it? If it's just HA server and audio serving stuff, you can get the C2D 4300 and save about $60. Dunno about HS/ML, but I know CQC really doesn't need much power at all. And a 1.8GHz (4300) is good enough for many other applications as well.

Of course, i'd then turn around and put 1.5-2GB in that machine so I wouldn't actually save any $$, but you'll minimize any pageswapping/etc.

 

[IVB]

just checked out the boards you linked to:

975: only 4 SATA unless you get the optional controller, 2 PCI and 3 PCIe
DG965RY : 3 PCI, 3 PCIe (1x), 1 PCIe(16x). Also has only 4 SATA so that's a wash

By way of comparison, I got the Intel BOXDG965WHMKR for $125, that got me:
- 3 PCI, 3 PCIe(1x), 1 PCIe(16x), 6 SATA (2 more).

I also got an Abit AB9-Pro 965-based mobo for my HTPC, that was a bit senstive to memory/etc, but that has:
- 3 different RAID controllers so I can do RAID1 for boot, RAID5 for data
- 9 internal SATA, 1 external SATA
but the downers are:
- 2 PCI, 2 PCIe(1x), 1 PCIe(16x)
- no onboard video

Hey, at least you got tons of options

 

[Sacedog]

I think i'm looking at the following - sorry Sacedog - i like the idea of itx, but the atx cases/expansion for a lot of hard drives (esp using multiple for raid, etc), etc lead me back to ATX...


Intel MB D975XBXLKR (corrected - or maybe DG965RYCK w/ video and no S/PIDF)
Intel Core Duo 2.13
1G ram (PC6400)
sapphire ati radion 7000 (lite) - cheap and this board has no on-board video
zalman alcu cpu fan
(2) Seagate 160GB sata hds (mirrored - raid 1)
(1) sony DVDRom

~700 for the above...


have already:
(1) antec 500 W smart power supply
(1) Maudio Delta 410



Case tbd based on my decision to rack mount or not...

-brad

Nothing to be sorry about. That will be a great system, and I love the Antec cases. I do agree with IVB though...if it is just a HA server, you can save a bit on the processor.

 

[shenandoah75]

Concur on processor... i'll scale back...

One more q: on raid, i figure with ghosting, i don't really need to raid the boot/OS layer seperately... Unless i'm missing something? I have debated raid1 vs raid 5 for a while... Do i really need to buy the extra drive for 5? Mirroring is my main concern for data (the mp3 and i'll probably store my jpegs from the digital eos here as well) , and not sure the access speed is really that important in the HA app. I doubt i'd ever run four seperate zones with different songs being accessed off jriver, etc at the same time... even i run 2, would raid 1 be a bad choice in that app?

-brad

 

[IVB]

I just prefer to keep OS on a seperate disk from data(ie, mp3 rips), and that Abit allowed me to do that. The warning is that it's not an Intel, some apps may cough.

 

[Sacedog]

Concur on processor... i'll scale back...

One more q: on raid, i figure with ghosting, i don't really need to raid the boot/OS layer seperately... Unless i'm missing something? I have debated raid1 vs raid 5 for a while... Do i really need to buy the extra drive for 5? Mirroring is my main concern for data (the mp3 and i'll probably store my jpegs from the digital eos here as well) , and not sure the access speed is really that important in the HA app. I doubt i'd ever run four seperate zones with different songs being accessed off jriver, etc at the same time... even i run 2, would raid 1 be a bad choice in that app?

-brad

RAID-1 is used for mirroring 2 hard drives for the purposes of redundancy and data protection. RAID-5 spans this protection over multiple (3 or more) drives, in order to increase performance. Typically, RAID-5 is only used on servers that have extremelly high disk IO (pretty unlikely need on a home computer unless you are recording multiple video streams at the same time). There is also RAID-0 which spans two hard drives, to make them look like on to the OS (so your 2 160GB drives would look like a 320GB drive to Windows). Thare are many other flavors of RAID too, but all the rest are used pretty exclusively in data centers or enterprise applications.

I actually was going to mention the RAID setup in my previous post, but I usually always err on the side of protection over cost. You just get that way after years of trying to keep 99.9% uptime.

You can just use one hard drive, and ghost it to an external USB drive once every so often (usually after you make a lot of changes). This would protect you from having to reinstall everything from scratch if your hard drive fails. This would also remove a hard drive from your closet (slightly less noise and heat). It would not save you much money however, since you would still need the drive for backup (just in an external enclosure instead of inside the server itself).

 

[ver0776]

Concur on processor... i'll scale back...

One more q: on raid, i figure with ghosting, i don't really need to raid the boot/OS layer seperately... Unless i'm missing something? I have debated raid1 vs raid 5 for a while... Do i really need to buy the extra drive for 5? Mirroring is my main concern for data (the mp3 and i'll probably store my jpegs from the digital eos here as well) , and not sure the access speed is really that important in the HA app. I doubt i'd ever run four seperate zones with different songs being accessed off jriver, etc at the same time... even i run 2, would raid 1 be a bad choice in that app?

-brad

RAID 0 for C: (OS drive) or Un-RAIDed
RAID 5 for Data

RAID 1 - Never
RAID 10 (0+1) - Never
RAID 3 - Never

I have never head justification for RAID 1, it is the least cost efficient of any RAID level (that provides data security).

If it is not a gaming or video machine, no point in RAIDing the OS drive unless you just "wanna do it". If you do, just two cheap drives is fine for anything short of a topshelf gaming rig.

Most of my machines I don't RAID the C: and Use RAID 5 for D:

RAID 0 is good for up to 4 drives, performance wise. And will ensure you LOSE your data sooner or later so don't put anything but Reloadable crap on it.

RAID 5 will start at 3 drives (33% of cost goes to parity, but better than the 100% cost of raid 1). If you have OCE, you can add more hard drives later. Every drive you add to RAID 5 lowers the % cost of the parity drive... At 8 drives, you are only spending 12.5% on parity...


I like mITX, but find it way too expensive now, just buy a Core 2 Duo in a case like those Antec's cases. 65W of heat does not require a CPU fan, just a cover and rear fan (BTX).


Vaughn

 

[shenandoah75]

ok - i'm convinced... so i go raid5 with the savings on the chip and buy 3 of the seagates, maybe more capacity though...

Note i don't intend to have a seperate OS drive, just a different partition. Raid is at the physical level so this means i would get raid 5 on C and D/E anyway

Is raid bad on the O/S drive because of all the read / right (or is not the O/S but whereever the swap file resides that is the issue - i usually put my swap on another partition)? Thinking you're gonna tell me buy a dedicated drive for the OS and partition using C - os and D - swap, and make the E/F partitions on the raid array?

thx
-brad