HA Speaker/Setup Questions

[ver0776]

$7 Elk-73s are a great deal, but I am at the point now that I hear "What did she say?" just too often. I am driving the speakers from the Speaker out jack on a PC, then into 2 Elk 10W amplifiers with an AB8SS and just using the left channel.

I am thinking of using like 5.25" In-wall speakers to replace the Elk-73's. But I want to make sure I am doing the right thing before cutting too many holes in the walls again. My main thought is the sound would be better if I could find a speaker that actually took left & right inputs so the full stereo signal would be played.

Does an in-wall speaker with Left & Right inputs even exist???

Next, again I am an audio idiot, so sorry for the silly questions, but I need to know how to wire this up to maybe improve sound. Should I be using the Line-Out on the sound card instead of the speaker outs? I know it depends what you are hooking up to, but that is in question here too. I am looking to replace the Elk Amps before the line gets to the AB8SS as it is a speaker level switch. So should I use the PC speaker outs and get a speaker Amp, or use the line out and get a line-level amp? If I do the later, does that still mean I need a normal amp too?

I need some amp recommendations, or should I just get a stereo and run the PC into the stereo for Amp? Seems like I can get a decent stereo for <$100, but stereo amps seem to start at $100... so not sure. I don't like the Size of a stereo for sure since it is in my wiring closet.

Last thing to impove TTS is I have some external SoundBlaster cards, I heard their rendering of TTS should sound better than any of the internals. Not sure how true this is and figure it should not have as big of an impact as new speakers or amp. Should I even bother now or just wait until I get the new speakers in place to see if there is a need still?

Am I just wasting time looking at a stereo solution for TTS? If MS TTS is just rendering a mono signal, running 2 channels to a single speaker spot shouldn't help, eh? If this is the case, would a better amp, like an AudioSource Mono Block be a good replacement for the Elk 10W amp? Is the Elk amp even contributing to my sound quality issues?

Anyways, just kinda looking for some general wisdom. The whole Line-Level, speaker level, OHM ranges, impedence crap has always lost me. Not sure what I am outputting in the first place... A Speaker out on the computer is 4-Ohm? What about the line-out, or does that even matter? Just pick me a Amp for $150 or less and tell me where to plug it in heheh, at least that is how I feel about it sometimes.

Thanks everyone, sorry my questions are so open-ended,
Vaughn

 

[IVB]

I'm no god, i'll tell you what I know.

For some of my TTS, I use headphone/speaker output and it's totally fine. Then again, I put my TTS through a stereo amp, and then to 6" speakers, so it's not the tiny little Elk ones. (those are strictly for caller-id and a few HA announcements where audio quality is irrelevant)

Audio amps usually take just line-level in, although i've heard of some that take speaker-level input.

Speaker out is line-level, ohms come into play when dealing with actual speakers and what your amp can handle. Most regular stereo amps can only handle 4-8ohms. The Elk-800 can handle 2-32 Ohms.

Most important thing to know is that you want to keep all your speakers at the same resistance/ohm. If you mix/match, you'll have different volumes on each speaker (4ohm speaker will have a diff volume than the 8ohm)

Finally, and no pressure, I still have those parasound zamps sitting around; they're 1/2 height, 1/2 width, 1/2 depth. I don't have the specs, but they're relatively small. Not as small as the newer digital amps but still. I can't remember what I have them listed for in the Buy/Sell section here, but I was going to sell for <$100 that's for sure. Given that you're a regular and hence not the type to abscond, I could always ship it to you if you want to play with them to improve your sound. Just pay me for the shipping now, and either pay me for the amp or ship back when you decide.

 

[keepersg]

Regarding:

Does an in-wall speaker with Left & Right inputs even exist???

Yes and pretty cheap too.

https://www.smarthome.com/8231r.html

 

[ver0776]

Does an in-wall speaker with Left & Right inputs even exist???
Yes and pretty cheap too.
https://www.smarthome.com/8231r.html

Those are perfect... except they are in-ceiling. Have you seen a product like this in the rectangular shape? I may get one of these to play with upstairs anyways.

Also, for a speaker like this, do they make a speaker cable the has both channels in 1 cable to make running cable easier?

IVB, I am looking into those amps of yours now. Let me ask, why aren't you using them? Was it a zone issue or something, rather than a quality issue?


Thanks!
Vaughn

 

[IVB]

Also, for a speaker like this, do they make a speaker cable the has both channels in 1 cable to make running cable easier?

Yes, I use dual voice coils also. I use 16/4 Belden speaker cable.

IVB, I am looking into those amps of yours now. Let me ask, why aren't you using them? Was it a zone issue or something, rather than a quality issue?

It was a proliferation of god damn amps issue. I went to a 1 room per zone model for my whole house audio, and I have 10 rooms in the house. I had 3 zamps, 2 sherbourns, and a Rotel that I had picked up on eBay over the years, and I didn't want to buy 4 more amps. Instead I sold off 1 zamp, both sherbourns, and the rotel to offset the cost of a NuVo Concerto & expander. I'm going to sell the remaining 2 zamps, but I'm sick of selling on eBay so I figured I'd hold on to them until a Cocoon'er or CQC'er needed them.

They sound great, read up on them, $250 new. They're a V1 if your research shows that stuff, which basically they're both signal sensing and 12V trigger. Hence you don't need to leave them "on" 24x7, but rather let them go to a low-power state.

 

[Rupp]

If you are using HomeSeer you can use all of the PC's in your home for your TTS audio as well as in wall or in ceiling speakers. I even pump my HomeSeer TTS to work and I actually monitor 2 remote sites with remote speaker applications.

 

[IVB]

I would view the issue as more of a hardware problem - the software engine isn't going to offset cheap speakers or amps.

 

[ver0776]

If you are using HomeSeer you can use all of the PC's in your home for your TTS audio as well as in wall or in ceiling speakers. I even pump my HomeSeer TTS to work and I actually monitor 2 remote sites with remote speaker applications.

Well, I don't use HomeSeer, but I do have that same functionality. All PCs in the house have a Speaker Client that does TTS or any audio formats. However, I don't use any of them for critical announcements becuase you just never know the volume settings of the PC's speakers or what is being used on the PC at the time, etc.

I think they are great for supplemental TTS so the house will make main announcements on the AB8SS, then the PC's will respond to the TTS with more entertaining announcements or to confuse a thief... I have never used the client remotely though and that has my mind on fire thinking of possibilities there....

I know at some point when I decide to do high quality audio throughout the house, I am gonna regret this round of TTS wiring =)

IVB, so how much for one of the Amps with shipping included? Zip is 66212 (Kansas). Be sure to toss a few points in for PayPal, etc. I don't see a need for two, but if it works out, I may hit you up for the second one later.

Vaughn

 

[IVB]

check pm

 

[shenandoah75]

So what are you guys doing to control the fact you need to supply the same speaker loads from different sources/amps in such an application. (i know i postedon this a while ago, but didn't get much feedback). Say as i think IVB used to have, i had an elk 800 (or the elk-120), and my whole house audio amp (both of which are capabile of driving 2 ohms loads and hooked to VC's impedence matched for such)...

 

[IVB]

that's the reason i bought a cheap mixer off eBay. Mix the 2 sources, and don't worry about it.

BSR also posted a solution using relays, but I didn't want to mess with that.

 

[Rupp]

So what are you guys doing to control the fact you need to supply the same speaker loads from different sources/amps in such an application. (i know i postedon this a while ago, but didn't get much feedback). Say as i think IVB used to have, i had an elk 800 (or the elk-120), and my whole house audio amp (both of which are capabile of driving 2 ohms loads and hooked to VC's impedence matched for such)...

Several guys on the HomeSeer board use this AB8SS switcher and a plugin for HomeSeer to automate this switching chore. This device can take to inputs and send the output to 8 sets of speakers.
http://www.hacs.com/ab8ss.html
It's out of stock at the moment but the developer just sent out an email stating he was building a new batch.