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HAI Comments on UPB vs. Zwave

Can someone please shed some light on this comment by HAI? I have been a huge user and fan of UPB, but I had hoped that the Leviton Zwave stuff would become a better option when released. (Whenever that is?) I always check homes for noise and etc. before installs but I dont think I will ever be confident with UPB due to the unknown?

Press Quote by HAI "ZWave devices are ideal for Multi-Dwelling Unit (MDU) applications. For single family homes and larger applications, HAI recommends the UPB technology used in HAI Lighting Control (HLC) products."
 

tech-home

Active Member
The only issue I have with Leviton Zwave switches is how they turn on/off.

Of course there going to push upb though.
 

Squintz

Senior Member
Edenlights said:
Can someone please shed some light on this comment by HAI? I have been a huge user and fan of UPB, but I had hoped that the Leviton Zwave stuff would become a better option when released. (Whenever that is?) I always check homes for noise and etc. before installs but I dont think I will ever be confident with UPB due to the unknown?

Press Quote by HAI "ZWave devices are ideal for Multi-Dwelling Unit (MDU) applications. For single family homes and larger applications, HAI recommends the UPB technology used in HAI Lighting Control (HLC) products."
I am not sure what you are not understanding. I get this out of that comment:

Z-Wave devices are good for multi dwelling units. By multi I think they are referring to multifamily which is "A building designed as a dwelling for more than one families at the same time.". This to me would mean that they are saying that z-wave is good for appartments and townhomes which have been divided into apartments. I would interpret this as z-wave can have more than one network very close. So one family in the home would not have to worry about the other family controlling their lighting for any reason.

The quote then moves on to say that UPB is better in single family and larger applications. This to me would make it sound like they are saying that z-wave is only good for smaller homes and UPB is superior in larger homes.

I personally disagree with this statement. Z-wave has no problem functioning in an extreemly large home. In fact there are test homes that exist that are fully fitted with z-wave devices. So I would say that weather you go with UPB or Z-Wave is your personal choice and would have very little to do with the size or type of home you live in.

The comment could also be interpreted as UPB does not perform well in homes where multiple families would be using multiple networks. I have not been a big follower of UPB so I don't know if this makes any more sense than any of the above assumptions.
 

Rupp

Senior Member
I read it as - UPB is still a powerline based system and as such people in apartments, townhouses, and condos in some situations can not add the required coupler that is needed for the powerline protocols. On the other Z-Wave is powerline independent and fits these multi-dwelling situations where powerline noise is going to be a problem.
 

Steve

Senior Member
I will try to talk to HAI and get their exact thoughts so there is no speculation because I do not necessarily agree with these interpretations.

First, UPB does not require a repeater so that should not be an issue. They recommend them but are certainly not required and in my experience not needed in a large percentage of installs.

I also do not agree with the statement about noise. You have just as high a chance at having wireless interference as you do powerline noise.

As far as large homes, I agree Zwave should work fine, but doesn't that assume you have a lot of devices? Don't they have to repeat to each other. So for example, while not a likely scenario, in a large home if you have only a few devices at opposite sides and/or floors there could be issues because of range and the devices not seeing each other? I'm sure in a normal install there would be enough devices to not have this problem, but it is a potential anyway.

Also with UPB you can have multiple separate networks and passwords so that should not be an issue in an MDU as far as I know.

I thought I read something about issues with 3 phase service which may be used in MDUs, but thats just a guess. I will try to get in from the horses mouth so to speak...
 

ano

Senior Member
My take. Multi-dwelling buildings are often powered with 3-phase where the residents don't have access to the power panel to add a 3-phase UPB repeater, therefore Z-Wave is good in these situations.

In single family houses, which never use 3-phase, UPB works great.

Since HAI makes UBP switches, but not Z-wave switches, I would only interpret this as them saying "use UPB where you can, but if you can't Z-Wave is O.K. to use."

Otherwise, I don't think I would put more into this than that.
 

Steve

Senior Member
Ok, spoke to HAI and it essentially comes down to the 3 phase issue. Even if a 3 phase repeater could be installed, HAI doesn't make one. But SAI does, so if there were a 3 phase repeater installed, UPB could work. It would just be less troublesome to install and debug ZWave in an MDU.
 
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