HAI for me?

N49atv

Active Member
Hello, I am getting a new home built this year (hoping to start in June/July), and I have really been considering Automating it. Its a 2700sq/ft 2 Story (with unfinished basement, so 3600-3700 total). I have been searching hard for about 3 weeks now, looking at different products, and im still pretty confused on some things. But im thinking the HAI is for me. Id like to start with lighting, security (basic), sound, but wire for the rest. Id like to do hardwired as much as possible, and then wireless for what has to be wireless, or as a backup should something happen to the wiring. Here is what im looking at;

To Start:

-Id like to control with Ipads, because well, the touch screens are usually uglier, and they are very expensive. A touch Pad like the 5.7e, is 1,000+, where as an Ipad 2 16GB is about 450 (locally CDN Pricing) then I just need a wall mount. I would be doing a few hard mounts, and a few docking/charging stations.

-Lighting, up to 30 zones give or take. Mostly Dimmers, a few 3 way dimmers, and a 4 way dimmer. Also Id like to do all LED lighting. Its gonna be pricy but I think its the way to go. I noticed some lights dont like PWM, and some dont like resistance dimmers. So unsure as to what lights to go with. it will be a mix of Pot Lights (maybe 8" for good light levels at max), and surface fixtures. Also I think 3 hanging fixtures. Though im sure the zones/rooms will drop drastically when I do the HMI, to clean it up. IE (all upstairs bedrooms on a page, Master on another etc) 30 is if everything is seperate.

-HVAC. Right now the design is for one forced air unit, and prevision for AC (evap going in, ill install the AC outside in the first or second summer). Though im now thinking of infloor heating, and AC. Gotta see the costs with each via the builder. Obviously with mobile access. Its nice when we are on VAC or a weekend away camping to turn off the AC, or turn down the heat, and adjust it an hour before home. Why waste energy.

-Id like to be able to switch the bathroom plugs on and off (the wife always worries she left the hair straightner on etc.)

-Id like to be able to turn on and off the fireplaces, though this can be done through a switch like the lights.

-Id like to do security, 8 doors, (About 21 windows, some just glass break, some glass+open status), Id like to pre-wire for cameras (not that im going to install them, but wire is cheap, and maybe I will down the road, maybe the next owner will want it, Cat5E, or Cat6E, and an 1110 box is cheap, so why not), id also like smoke and heat detectors. And ill throw some motions in. Id like to automate the door locks. I think this will have to be wireless, because I havent seen a hardwired solution, but im confused with my padio doors, as they are french, do they make a top down deadbolt or something for my main level, and basement walkout french doors, I dont think a big deadbolt is the answer, and it could be defeated by breaking the glass anyway.

-Id also like to tie the door contacts into an intercom system. Our friends put in a cheap wireless solution, the anounces when a door is open, and which door it is. This could be done via relays, should it not be intergrated. But its great for knowing when the little ones are opening doors. Our boys are 10m, and 3. Most of our friends are in the 1-2 age, with the more settling down, and more small ones are going to be on the way. The wife really likes it when we are there, and it lets us know the door to the garage is open, and we can see who is going where they shouldnt.

-Ill be doing whole home audio, 8 or 9 zones, with multiple sources (radio, Sat radio, Sat TV Audio channel, Audio Library, and local Ipod/Pad docks, or Inputs) Ill be pre wiring for the audio, as im not set on equiptment for the theater yet, so ill prob just be putting in some speakers, and local docks at install, then dealing with the rest after. Id also like the ability to intercom. Be great for calling the kids in from the back yard etc, or when the wife decides I should be able to hear what she is saying on a totally different floor. I love when she calls down to grab some bread or something from the freezer, walk upstairs to find it out, then walk backdown stairs to grab it, and bring it back up for her.

Pre-wire for:

-Irigation, it will be the first summer I install it, maybe the 2nd. Depending on budget, and work load. Im thinking 2-3 Solenoids.

-Motorized window coverings. I havent had much time to look at them, mostly focusing on the lights etc, but id love to hardwire them. The wife seems to like hunter douglas (its not a listed conectivity partner), but we have a local Hunter Douglas supplier in town. And she is very hands on, vs trying to picture things, or look online. Ill have to see who else is in town. Or nearby I havent really looked at the code, but was hoping even if it was not a connectivity partner, or no drivers avail, I could use DO on timers and automate them up and down etc via timers. Though a driver would be the best. She likes the Sillouets, and we would add blackouts to a few of the windows. Again thats her picking what she wants at the time. Id just like to direct her where to go look. Its better that way.

-Anything else I stumble across, though I pretty much have it covered. The basement will be unfinished, and ill be building a theater down there, so it will eventually get added in aswell, maybe through an HTX2.


Questions:

-The OmniPro II seems to cover everything i am doing, and want to be doing. Now is there a better option for me? Cost is a factor, Not a massive one, but I think all and all id like to keep it under 15k (Not counting theater). Ive been looking at systems, and DIY is also a factor. Id like to be able to tinker. And some of this will be future, so I dont want to have to bring someone in everytime. So I think creston is out.

- Do these systems register local changes. I know I have played with the apps on the Iphone, and you can dim and toggle etc, but how does it work if say I manually dim the lights to 67%, does the app poll regularly, or is it an on demand poll (go out of perticular room, or area, and reenter to see the change, or does it automatically force an update when a change is done locally).

-Lighting is a big one, id like it bright, and quiet frankly too bright, and run the dimmers, that way as the LEDs start to fade, it can just be adjusted up. Though I dont want flickering and humming. So what combos work well together? Is there a better lighting partner then another? IE Lutron switches, with leviton lights? Is there a connectivity partner to stay away from, is there a non listed connectivity partner, that has thier own drivers making them compatable?

Thanks for your time everyone.
 
WOW this is a long post! Unfortunately, I've found that people can't track something this long, or don't have the time to read it - hence the lack of responses. That said, I'll try and take some time here to respond.

You have a huge undertaking - but you're not alone - many of us started where you're at... most never accomplish everything, but we keep chiseling through the list as time goes by. Best of luck to you!


Hello, I am getting a new home built this year (hoping to start in June/July), and I have really been considering Automating it. Its a 2700sq/ft 2 Story (with unfinished basement, so 3600-3700 total). I have been searching hard for about 3 weeks now, looking at different products, and im still pretty confused on some things. But im thinking the HAI is for me. Id like to start with lighting, security (basic), sound, but wire for the rest. Id like to do hardwired as much as possible, and then wireless for what has to be wireless, or as a backup should something happen to the wiring. Here is what im looking at;
Wireless costs 10x wired - do your best to avoid *ever* needing wireless, especially in pre-build!
To Start:

-Id like to control with Ipads, because well, the touch screens are usually uglier, and they are very expensive. A touch Pad like the 5.7e, is 1,000+, where as an Ipad 2 16GB is about 450 (locally CDN Pricing) then I just need a wall mount. I would be doing a few hard mounts, and a few docking/charging stations.
That's fine - Check out Haiku - here on the boards; seems to be a great 3rd party HAI app - make sure it suits your needs.
-Lighting, up to 30 zones give or take. Mostly Dimmers, a few 3 way dimmers, and a 4 way dimmer. Also Id like to do all LED lighting. Its gonna be pricy but I think its the way to go. I noticed some lights dont like PWM, and some dont like resistance dimmers. So unsure as to what lights to go with. it will be a mix of Pot Lights (maybe 8" for good light levels at max), and surface fixtures. Also I think 3 hanging fixtures. Though im sure the zones/rooms will drop drastically when I do the HMI, to clean it up. IE (all upstairs bedrooms on a page, Master on another etc) 30 is if everything is seperate.
There's an article about UPB in my signature which is the preferred protocol of HAI as I understand; of course, you don't have to use HAI brand switches - the more you learn about HLC, you'll find it's just a way of provisioning the switches, and it's compatible with any brand UPB. I like Simply Automated, and my article shares everything I've learned about it.
-HVAC. Right now the design is for one forced air unit, and prevision for AC (evap going in, ill install the AC outside in the first or second summer). Though im now thinking of infloor heating, and AC. Gotta see the costs with each via the builder. Obviously with mobile access. Its nice when we are on VAC or a weekend away camping to turn off the AC, or turn down the heat, and adjust it an hour before home. Why waste energy.
Non issue - it it's wired like a traditional HVAC, you can just replace with a communicating model. Run a Cat5 to the Thermostat location so you can install a communicating one. Should you go with in-floor heating, you'll probably want to augment with temperature sensors and relay outputs to control the heating. Rules regarding vacation and away status will let you set the thermostat back as desired.
-Id like to be able to switch the bathroom plugs on and off (the wife always worries she left the hair straightner on etc.)
Only catch here is that often those UPB plugs are very expensive, and have lower amperage ratings... and only one of the two outlets is controlled. You might even be better off using an in-line relay to control the outlet - that'll get both outlets and you should be able to get 15Amps and put it behind a GFCI - but this is a tricky request that requires some thought.
-Id like to be able to turn on and off the fireplaces, though this can be done through a switch like the lights.



Many switch-controlled fireplaces are actually millivolt or contact closure, not AC - though I've seen some AC powered ones. Check my signature for a hack on the fireplace - mine works amazingly well and we really like it.
-Id like to do security, 8 doors, (About 21 windows, some just glass break, some glass+open status), Id like to pre-wire for cameras (not that im going to install them, but wire is cheap, and maybe I will down the road, maybe the next owner will want it, Cat5E, or Cat6E, and an 1110 box is cheap, so why not), id also like smoke and heat detectors. And ill throw some motions in. Id like to automate the door locks. I think this will have to be wireless, because I havent seen a hardwired solution, but im confused with my padio doors, as they are french, do they make a top down deadbolt or something for my main level, and basement walkout french doors, I dont think a big deadbolt is the answer, and it could be defeated by breaking the glass anyway.
Do wired for all doors/windows on all levels. Hardwired contacts are $3/each vs. $30/each - and their value goes beyond security in an automated home. I can write pages on this - but my suggestion is to cover them all. For Motion - go good quality, dual-technology... look for the best, as motions are the single biggest source of false alarms, yet provide a very valuable layer of protection. For door locks, honestly, just use some Z-Wave door locks and figure out how to best integrate; trying to do the special electronic latches is more trouble than it's worth for a residence.
-Id also like to tie the door contacts into an intercom system. Our friends put in a cheap wireless solution, the anounces when a door is open, and which door it is. This could be done via relays, should it not be intergrated. But its great for knowing when the little ones are opening doors. Our boys are 10m, and 3. Most of our friends are in the 1-2 age, with the more settling down, and more small ones are going to be on the way. The wife really likes it when we are there, and it lets us know the door to the garage is open, and we can see who is going where they shouldnt.
***




This is a standard feature of any decent alarm system - no additional needed.
-Ill be doing whole home audio, 8 or 9 zones, with multiple sources (radio, Sat radio, Sat TV Audio channel, Audio Library, and local Ipod/Pad docks, or Inputs) Ill be pre wiring for the audio, as im not set on equiptment for the theater yet, so ill prob just be putting in some speakers, and local docks at install, then dealing with the rest after. Id also like the ability to intercom. Be great for calling the kids in from the back yard etc, or when the wife decides I should be able to hear what she is saying on a totally different floor. I love when she calls down to grab some bread or something from the freezer, walk upstairs to find it out, then walk backdown stairs to grab it, and bring it back up for her.
This is a tricky one, and I have little good advice; I haven't found the perfect solution, so I haven't integrated any yet. Honestly, the HTD.com solution looks like my favorite, with the built in intercom and how the whole solution is built - but I haven't seen it in person yet, and since I'm a [small time] dealer, it goes against what I sell... and it doesn't have the pre-established drivers with all the systems like Russound and Nuvo do. Then again, the intercom is built right in which is huge with me, also having little ones.
Pre-wire for:
-Irigation, it will be the first summer I install it, maybe the 2nd. Depending on budget, and work load. Im thinking 2-3 Solenoids.
non issue - get relays to the sprinkler control location. i don't know HAI well enough to answer, but with an Elk, a single Cat5 extends the entire control bus wherever you want - so I put output expanders in the garage for control of the sprinklers, garage doors, and other things. Very handy!

***
 
Motorized window coverings. I havent had much time to look at them, mostly focusing on the lights etc, but id love to hardwire them. The wife seems to like hunter douglas (its not a listed conectivity partner), but we have a local Hunter Douglas supplier in town. And she is very hands on, vs trying to picture things, or look online. Ill have to see who else is in town. Or nearby I havent really looked at the code, but was hoping even if it was not a connectivity partner, or no drivers avail, I could use DO on timers and automate them up and down etc via timers. Though a driver would be the best. She likes the Sillouets, and we would add blackouts to a few of the windows. Again thats her picking what she wants at the time. Id just like to direct her where to go look. Its better that way.







I'd run 18/4 to the top of each window and figure this out later... I can't answer specifically, but I believe the options are relay control or Z-Wave... but at least with 18/4 at each window you can accomplish power and/or control.
-Anything else I stumble across, though I pretty much have it covered. The basement will be unfinished, and ill be building a theater down there, so it will eventually get added in aswell, maybe through an HTX2.


Questions:

-The OmniPro II seems to cover everything i am doing, and want to be doing. Now is there a better option for me? Cost is a factor, Not a massive one, but I think all and all id like to keep it under 15k (Not counting theater). Ive been looking at systems, and DIY is also a factor. Id like to be able to tinker. And some of this will be future, so I dont want to have to bring someone in everytime. So I think creston is out.
It's really Elk or HAI - and honestly, today, I'd go HAI. They're advancing, and Elk isn't really.
- Do these systems register local changes. I know I have played with the apps on the Iphone, and you can dim and toggle etc, but how does it work if say I manually dim the lights to 67%, does the app poll regularly, or is it an on demand poll (go out of perticular room, or area, and reenter to see the change, or does it automatically force an update when a change is done locally).
There's some gotchas here - but HAI with the HLC protocol should fit the bill.
-Lighting is a big one, id like it bright, and quiet frankly too bright, and run the dimmers, that way as the LEDs start to fade, it can just be adjusted up. Though I dont want flickering and humming. So what combos work well together? Is there a better lighting partner then another? IE Lutron switches, with leviton lights? Is there a connectivity partner to stay away from, is there a non listed connectivity partner, that has thier own drivers making them compatible?
As I mentioned above, HAI's switches use UPB - but in a particular arrangement that makes them into HLC. You need HLC if you want accurate status, but you don't need HAI switches to get it - any brand will work if you follow the specs. I use Simply Automated extensively, for LED, Halogen, incandescent, fluorescent, and ballast-driven fluorescent lights - and have never had an issue. I'm familiar with the flickering issues - I've seen them with previous motion sensors and timers - but haven't had a single switch ever not work as intended with SAI.
 
Seems to be a forum bug - said I had an inconsistent number of open/close quotes... I thin it was just too many for it to process, since it worked fine as two separate posts.
 
Above kinda covered everything but I have one addition, I don't like the idea of battery powered locks so I plan on running DC to each door for the Zwave locks I will be adding. I figure I'll run it to the hinge side then drill straight through from the lock opening to about 2" from the hinge side, then straight in from the inside of the door to meet the other hole. Run the wire with a protector and some slack for the door movement and it should be good.
Still, it is wireless but at least it's hardwired power. Just one more thing to consider for prewire.
 
Welcome to the forum N49atv. You'll see here that automation is an addiction and hobby to many forum users. That said many users have "been there and done that." and have written about it. So read and read over the various DIY posts on the forum. Drawing from the posts will answer many of your questions about this or that. Folks here are friendly and will typically answer many of the questions you many have.

I installed an HAI Omni Pro II in the midwest about 10 years ago and its done well over the years.

The more cabling / wire / chases you install initially the better you are off. It'll be the lesser of the costs initially and provide you the most functionality when you decide to utilize it. During a tear down and new contruction in 2nd home it took my wife and I about 2 days to prewire the home. Today still only utilizing maybe 30% of that pre-wire.

I upgraded the Omni Pro II 4 years ago to newer model in house #1 and installed legacy Omni Pro II in house #2.

Initially because I wanted audio / music in every room in the two homes I prewired / wired up audio right away making it initially work just for music with no real base audio controller et al. Simply I just wired 14/16 1 and 2 pair gauge wire and a cat5e from every room to a central location (comm closet).

In the midwest I have a hodgepodge still migrating all wall switches from Insteon/X10 to UPB. I also utilize Z-Wave for this or that. That said the home is in a transitory "phase" after over ten years of X10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave. I like playing with various touchscreens (not so much liked by wife - WAF stuff) and have OmniTouch and generic Linux / Wintel touch screens for this or for that. I also utilize a piece of software called Homeseer which works with the HAI and gives me a bit more stuff (I'm into weather).

My wife does this and that with her hair utensils in her bathroom with no automation for said used outlets as she also uses a "curling iron". There is a timed shutoff for her stuff if she doesn't manually shut it off. I think that's the norm today for that stuff.

Over the years I've been into playing with various cameras and a free application called Zoneminder (sandbox like). That said today I have 8 analog and 7 IP cameras hooked up to it. Lately playing with 2 new HD IP cameras adding these to the mix. I'm impressed with the new gen lower cost HD cameras. I use these with HAI Omni Pro II connected outdoor sensors.

Attached is a picture of a new touchscreen (medium on the WAF scale) that I am playing with. Its a Microtouch 17" capacitance screen and the first time I've installed something this large into a wall. Eventually though direction will be more the 16:9 format (smaller newer touch screens are that today). Not finished yet and going slow with it. Still need to frame it and just kind of playing around with the touchscreen views/pages (I am no artist).
 

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Above kinda covered everything but I have one addition, I don't like the idea of battery powered locks so I plan on running DC to each door for the Zwave locks I will be adding. I figure I'll run it to the hinge side then drill straight through from the lock opening to about 2" from the hinge side, then straight in from the inside of the door to meet the other hole. Run the wire with a protector and some slack for the door movement and it should be good.
Still, it is wireless but at least it's hardwired power. Just one more thing to consider for prewire.

Running a wire slack behind a hinge is ghetto and will fail for sure. You can buy DC door hinges that transfer power when the door is closed but they are meant for powered mortise locks and you will lose power when the door is open. That will not work since you would reboot the lock every time you open the door so try powering two hinges with the positive and negative separately.
 
Running a wire slack behind a hinge is ghetto and will fail for sure. You can buy DC door hinges that transfer power when the door is closed but they are meant for powered mortise locks and you will lose power when the door is open. That will not work since you would reboot the lock every time you open the door so try powering two hinges with the positive and negative separately.
Here's your solution
 
Running a wire slack behind a hinge is ghetto and will fail for sure. You can buy DC door hinges that transfer power when the door is closed but they are meant for powered mortise locks and you will lose power when the door is open. That will not work since you would reboot the lock every time you open the door so try powering two hinges with the positive and negative separately.
Who said anything about behind a hinge??
http://www.cablingplus.com/products/seco-larm-sd-969-s18-armored-door-cord-with-aluminum-caps
 
Well it's far more sightly than the armored cable, though that's what you'd see in a commercial setting. These things have a duty rating - that's what I'd follow, and it'll probably outlive you ^_^
 
Is hai my best bet for whole house solution? I know it's lower end in cost (from what seeing) just wondering if I should be spending more on a controller, that might be better, then using a seperate lighting controller.
 
I just finished building a new home. I did a post a while back sort of sharing my experience in my research. If you do a search on my forum name you should be able to find it. Let me know if you have any specific questions about my research or how the install went or how it is working.

Joe
 
The fact that there's so many ways to skin the same cat does scare me, but if I were in your position today, I'd go HAI and go all out. I love Elk, but they're obviously incompetently managed and will likely wither into non-existence... Very sad.

HAI has solutions for your entire system
 
Thanks. Nothing shows up searching your name. I checked your profile, and looked at posts and topics. And nothing. I tried to send a PM and it asks me to please address the members I'm sending to.

Tapatalk is lovely.
 
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