HAI/Leviton UPB Serial Connector Wiring

[ano]

Has anyone successfully connected a non-HAI/Leviton UPB PIM (female DE-9 connector) to a 6-pin RJ45 connector on the Omni Pro II board?  Or could you point me to the correct type of adapter?  There are so many type DTE and DCE, male/female configurations my head is spinning. 
 
I know Leviton a cable to connect a computer to their serial port, and also a cable to connect their PIM to a computer, but i haven't seen one to connect another brand of UPB PIM to their serial port.
 
I bought an adapter I can wire, but I only get one shot at it, and previous attempts at this have failed. With only 6 wires, it can't be that hard. :unsure:
 
I have asked this before but unfortunately never gotten it to work. 

 

[pete_c]

I have multiple HAI UPB PIMs.  I have no PCS UBP Pims here today.  I do have extra SA serial and USB UPB Pims.
 
Are you testing a PCS UPB serial PIM today?
 
I made one cable manually pinning it to an RS-232 9 pin connection versus using the HAI RJ to RS-232.  Thinking I only used 3 wires for it.  Here I am using multiple serial connections and rather than purchase old thick RS-232 cables I went to using catXX on all of my serial connections (well Digi boxes).  I purchased a boxo RS-232 to RJ housings, tools requried to insert and remove pins a few years back.  You can just cut and solder wires if you make a mistake.
 
I will take pictures of the wiring and pins.

 

[pete_c]

Well took it apart.
 
I am using 4 RS-232 wires going to the 6 pin connector on the UPB PIM. 
 
Female RS-232 end has pins 2,3,4,5 connected to UPB 6 wire PIM.  The 9 pins are labeled on the outside and inside of the connector.
 
I am bad with colors trying to look at the 6 pin RJ end and the wires are a bit clear where its a bit difficult to tell.
 
Googling here found:
 
2->2 (RD)
3->3 (TD)
4->4 (DTR)
5->5 (ground)
 
 

 
HAI OPII serial port pinout drawing.  Note that pin 3 shows its a DCD connection.
 

 
 
Here is a picture of the RS-232 side.  It is a bit messed up from my testing but it works fine.  The picture is bad.  Its the 4 pins on the top that are connected.
 

 

[ano]

Hi Pete:
 
Yes, I want to connect a PCS PIM.  So just to confirm:  The HAI serial you are showing is the SOCKET, not the male connector, correct? 
On the RS-232 side you are showing a FEMALE DB9 connector.  Is this from the PIM side because the cable I must make needs a male connector?
 
Does RD on the HAI panel go to RD on the PIM, or does it go to TD on the PIM?
Does TD on the HAI panel go to TD on the PIM, or does it go to RD on the PIM?
And DTR on the PIM goes to ???  There is no DTR on the HAI serial socket. There is DCD.

 

[pete_c]

I can rig up an SA RS-232 connection to the OPII panel today sometime.

 

The HAI serial you are showing is the SOCKET, not the male connector, correct? 
On the RS-232 side you are showing a FEMALE DB9 connector.

The RS-232 9 pin is a female connection (socket).
 

 Is this from the PIM side because the cable I must make needs a male connector?

 
Yes using the cable I mentioned today with a Quatech serial server with male RS-232 connections.
 
Goofing with this stuff so long I have the pieces here to make an SA PIM ( female 9 pin RS-232 connector) to RJ 6 pin connector for the OPII panel.  I also have some spare HAI serial port connectors around here some place.
 
I have never done this before but RS-232 is RS-232 and the OPII is what it is pin wise for serial port connectivity.
 
I am guessing that the PCS UPB PIM has a standard 9 pin female RS-232 connector on it; eh?
 
Here is another drawing from an HAI OPII manual which shows a DCD, DTR and DSR connection to that same pin.  I did not do this for my HAI UPB PIM to serial connector.
 

 
Found a picture of the Pulseworx UPB serial PIM with  RS-232 2,3,5 regular and RS 232 pin 4 as 12VDC which doesn't make sense to me.

 

[ano]

I have never done this before but RS-232 is RS-232 and the OPII is what it is pin wise for serial port connectivity.
 
I am guessing that the PCS UPB PIM has a standard 9 pin female RS-232 connector on it; eh?

I know it shouldn't be so hard, but serial connections are a mess.  I can find the pinouts, I just want to confirm that transmit goes to receive, and receive goes to transmit? Correct?  The PIM has a DTR, where does that connect to on the HAI serial port?
 
I am just reinstalling my panel after moving. Its is not quite running yet.  I'm still deciphering the cryptic zone descriptions the builder wrote 20 years ago.  :wacko: 

 

[pete_c]

I would take it slow. 
 
Pin 4 (DTR) of the RS-232 interface goes to pin 3 of the OPII 6 pin serial connector.  (I have used both a 4 wire and a 6 wire cable and think you only need the 4 wire connector for UPB),
 
Make yourself a little test cable breaking out the 4 center wires on the OPII RJ part and only 4 wires on the RS-232 side of the PCS UPB PIM.   Use little jumper leads to test. 
 
RX / TX / Ground will be 3 of the 4 wires.  Try firs just connecting #3 DCD (as labeled) to #4 (RS-232) DTR (as labeled)  I don't think you will break anything. 
 
Don't use a 6 pin RJ rather using a 4 pin RJ to the OPII panel.  (center 4 pins).
 
I have not found my box o RS-232/RJ ends yet.  Well I haven't looked yet.
 
Found an old telephone cable with an RJ-11 end on it and thick wires.  Will to a color match from right to left with the clip down and test connect it to an RS232 9 pin male plug I found with all 9 pins wired. 

 

[JonW]

I seem to recall that the PCS PIM requires a continuous 5V on the DTR line.  When I previously ran a HomeVision automation controller, I had to hack my serial cable to the PIM to provide a constant 5V input to the PIM since the HomeVision serial port did not provide DTR.  I believe the HAI PIM was designed to not require the 5V DTR signal.

 

[ano]

I did purchase the Leviton UPB PIM just to be sure its working. (Left the old one at my former house for the new owners, but i don't think they have ever used it.)  In any a new Leviton UPB PIM and the instructions do point out that it requires (and includes) a 6-conductor cable.  I wonder if they have changed something?  Also, while Leviton doesn't mention this, Worthington seems to say that UPB PIM's should always be connected to serial port #3.
 
I'm not really sure if their is any basis for either of these recommendations, but who knows. You know that with Leviton "quality" you don't want to press your luck.
 
I have got to get this serial port thing figured out, because I need to connect another serial port to an Betabright LED sign I have, and another serial port to a serial-to-IP converter which will send commands to my Somfy shade controller. 
 
Maybe I should by one of those serial port checkers:
http://www.amazon.com/CableMax%C2%AE-RS-232-link-Tester-Female/dp/B004OT995U
 
Have I mentioned that I REALLY hate serial ports? 

 

[pete_c]

Opened the panel just now to look.  I have not opened the HAI panel in a while.
 
The HAI PIM is connected to the 3rd serial port and using an RJ-12 (6 wires) cable end to end.
 
I should have looked before writing above. 
 
I have a second HAI PIM, SA USB and SA serial PIM next to these. 
 
The second HAI PIM is using a 6 wire cable / RJ12 to a Digi Edgeport via an HAI connector which is connectd to HS3 at this time.
 
The serial SA PIM is connected to another Digi Edgeport which connects to the HS2 box.
 
The USB SA UPB PIM is connected to a wintel server for Upstart use and sometimes I connect this one to my laptop (so its a floater).  Second floor Quatech server HAI PIM is a static connection as I never move it.
 
I am at serial port capacity on the OPII.  Serial ports 1,2 & 4 utilize 4 pin rj-11's.  Serial ports 3 &  5 are using 6 pin RJ-12 jacks.

 

[ano]

Yup, the serial ports go quickly. the plan is:
1 - Zigbee
2 - Somfy
3 - UPB
4 - e-Mail Board
5 - Betabrite LED Display for messages using an ASCII to Betabrite Converter board

 

[pete_c]

Curious and guessing you have just plugged the PCS PIM to a PC with a 9 pin serial port or used an RS-232 to USB cable to test it out with Upstart. 
 
It doesn't make sense to me that they would change or make the serial port on the PIM any different than the standard.
 
Somewhere here do have a few of the RJ12 ends as I used to use them for the 1-wire stuff. 
 
Looking at the stock HAU 6 wire cable ends it does appear to be using all 6 pins.  Wondering if that 12 VDC on HAI pin 6 is used for anything.  I know for sure that my custom cable / HAI UPB PIM to Quatech serial server is only using 4 wires as described above.

 

[ano]

If you look on Amazon, you see lots of RJ12 to DB9 cables, but these cables are designed to connect a PC serial port to some serial device. Leviton even sells a similar cable to connect a PC to their PIM. But here its the opposite, an RJ12 controller and dumb DB9 device. These are pretty rare. Not that in 2015 we can't create such a cable. I can play with it and figure it out, but I was hoping someone had done it. I ordered the DB9 analyzer so I will get to the bottom of this. Overkill, probably, but in my older years I just want it to work.

 

[pete_c]

I personally doubt that the HAI serial port side is using more than the 4 center leads of the serial port. 
 
Relating to the PCS PIM serial port I do not see why they would make their serial port unique.
 
The above said I would personally just try a test cable with the 4 center leads on the OPII panel going to RX-TX-Ground-XXX on the PCS PIM.
 
Check if there are any voltages on the 4th wire you want to use on the PCS PIM. (DCD or DTR)
 
Guessing that you will also see a flashing LED on that HAI OPII serial port 3rd pin (DCD) with your gizmo and if you measure the voltage you will probably see something above 3 volts on the pin (on and off?).
 
The HAI knowledge base doesn't mention the use of the 6 pins on the serial port.  It doesn't though mention use of a non HAI UPB PIM though.
 
Yesterday took apart a 9 pin RS-232/RJ45 shell removing the RS-232 piece with the wires.  I also found an old RJ-11 cable which I cut to expose the 4 wires.  I will give it a go today.  First though I want to change the HAI serial port that is currently being utilized for UPB just to see if UPB works on another serial port.
 

 

 

[JonW]

Did you guys miss my post on needing power on the DTR line of the PCS PIM?  It will not function without it.  The HAI PIM does not require DTR.  You also need to ensure that the PIM is set in message mode.  If it is in pulse mode, it also will not work.