Help needed for choosing correct HA controller

DemianDK

New Member
Looking for some startup help with home automation. I have just bought a house, and want to start building a home automation system for it.
 
I have been looking at different home automation hubs, but not at all sure which to go with. And also I have been searching for information around the web, but actually I’m more confused now, then when I started looking.
 
I’ve a QNAP NAS, which I’ll be using for the surveillance part (IP Cams). But of course it would be great to see them in the home automation interface as well.
Also have a Philips Hue control with 5 bulbs and 2 light stripes, which I would like to be able to control.
 
Things the system needs to be able to do:
·      Act as primary alarm system for my home, with siren and loudspeaker plus multiple sensors (Motion, Door/Window, Fire, Smoke etc.) Send e-mail, SMS and/or phone call, when alarm is activated, don’t know if I need a unit with the possibility to insert a SIM card for this. Work with and without Internet connection, if something should happen to my Internet connection, then I’ll of course want my system still to be enabled. Would also be nice with cloud connection for backup etc.
·      I want to connect some different devices in the future such as; Door locks, temperature adjustment for my heaters, lighting, power sources, Sonos speakers, iRobot cleaner etc.
·      Protocols I know at lease need Z-Wave, but of course it would be great to have multiply protocols enabled for future services.
·      Would be nice with some environment information, which I could use for my saltwater tank. And of course for inside and outside conditions.
 
I’ve been looking at the following controllers:
 
-       Veraplus
-       Fibaro Home Center 2 and also the Lite version
-       Smartthings
-       Homeseer Hometroller Zee S2
-       Honeywell Tuxedo Touch
-       Zipato Zipabox
 
But as you can understand I’m not sure on which way to go now, so your advice will be higher appreciated. 
 
Welcome to Cocoontech DemianDK.
 
I can only mention what I am using today and it works for me fine.
 
I started to automate here in the late 1970's with X10. 
 
Today I am using a Leviton Omni Pro 2 panel running UPB, X-10, Z-Wave and now Zigbee.  The OmniPro panels have run fine over 10 years.  Both the Elk and Omni panels were the first to combine security and automation firmware to one piece of hardware. 
 
Also been utilizing Homeseer since 1998 (18 years).  I started Homeseer 3 Pro on Wintel then moved it to Ubuntu.  The Homeseer 3 Zee was the first Homeseer to run on Linux (RPi).  I have gone to using the Zee-2, GPIO ZWave Plus card inside of the Zee-2 (standard).  Both are doing fine.  I cannot really be objective because I am mostly familiar with Homeseer.  That said check out the rest of the automation software written about right here on Cocoontech.
 
Homeseer 3 Touchscreen designer (based in Wintel) always has let you create touch interfaces on Wintel, iOS, Android and Linux (needs work) plus today there is Homeseer 3 integration with the Amazon Echo, Kinect and IFTTT.
 
Both the firmware combination security and automation panel and software will be your lesser monetary spend.
 
Your automated light switch if you go in that direction will be a higher spend.  Plan on $50 plus per switch in your home depending on how many lights you want to automate. 
 
From a very high level you can think about current HA controllers as belonging to 2 groups: cloud-based and local. Many people here prefer local systems, the cloud based ones are definitely not suited for home security, but they could do some automation and remote control. Some systems, like Homeseer, have both options. If you are averse to the thought of opening the doors to hack your HA system, it may be wise to stay away from cloud solutions all together, but this is a personal choice.
 
For the local solution, you may consider getting a hardware controller, such as Elk or HAI that are also security systems, or vera/ISY/hometroller that only do HA natively, but can interface with a security system. In addition to the hardware controller many people also deploy a software controller such as CQS, Homeseer, premise, openHAB etc. to expand the HA functionality and integrate different technologies. I also like to point out that when choosing a home automation system you can have any 2 of the 3 options: cheap, reliable, feature rich. Once you decided on which 2 you prefer, you'll be able to narrow down your selection choices significantly.
 
My house had a builders quality (wholesale $99) Napco securuty system which I looked at expanding to provide remote control. At the time, 10+ years ago, Napco didn't have any products which I could buy or I had to have it professionally installed ($$$). My primary requirement was to be able to control everything from my iOS devices. Thus, I replaced the security panel with an Elk M1G and reused all the existing hard wired sensors. I added an ISY-99i Insteon lighting controller (upgraded years later with an ISY-994iZW when Zwave became more prevalent). The Elk and ISY can communicate with each other for events and control.

Insteon is predominately powerline, but does have dual powerline+RF devices. Both Insteon RF and Zwave both use ~900 MHz, thus do not have interoperability issues with WiFi/BT, unlike Zigbee. Not to mention Zigbee devices seem to be harder to get or have license restrictions which require you to enlist a professional installer ($$$). The other reason I chose the ISY is that it is a high reliable embedded device which costs pennies a month to run as opposed to a dedicated Windows PC running 24/7 and all the upkeep (security patches, updates, viruses, etc) of a Windows system.

My system:
1. Elk M1G security
2. ISY-994iProIR w/ZW lighting
3. eKeypad Pro mobile app
4. Mobilinc HD mobile app
5. IP cameras
6. Kwikset 916 Zwave lock
7. Zwave secondary siren

I tend to stay away from new flash in the pan companies, KS funded products, or cloud based products which require a recurring monthly extortion fee for the privilege of controlling ones home.
 
elvisimprsntr said:
My house had a builders quality (wholesale $99) Napco securuty system which I looked at expanding to provide remote control. At the time, 10+ years ago, Napco didn't have any products which I could buy or I had to have it professionally installed ($$$). My primary requirement was to be able to control everything from my iOS devices. Thus, I replaced the security panel with an Elk M1G and reused all the existing hard wired sensors. I added an ISY-99i Insteon lighting controller (upgraded years later with an ISY-994iZW when Zwave became more prevalent). The Elk and ISY can communicate with each other for events and control. Insteon is predominately powerline, but does have dual powerline+RF devices. Both Insteon RF and Zwave both use ~900 MHz, thus do not have interoperability issues with WiFi/BT, unlike Zigbee. Not to mention Zigbee devices seem to be harder to get or have license restrictions which require you to enlist a professional installer ($$$). The other reason I chose the ISY is that it is a high reliable embedded device which costs pennies a month to run as opposed to a dedicated Windows PC running 24/7 and all the upkeep (security patches, updates, viruses, etc) of a Windows system. My system: 1. Elk M1G security 2. ISY-994iProIR w/ZW lighting 3. eKeypad Pro mobile app 4. Mobilinc HD mobile app 5. IP cameras 6. Kwikset 916 Zwave lock 7. Zwave secondary siren I tend to stay away from new flash in the pan companies, KS funded products, or cloud based products which require a recurring monthly extortion fee for the privilege of controlling ones home.
Zigbee devices are getting easier to get, but yes, they aren't as available as Z-Wave.  Insteon and Z-Wave are proprietary standards owned by a single company. If those companies ever go under, then you are screwed. Zigbee is a non-proprietary standard supported by hundreds of companies.  Also Zigbee, Bluetooth, and Wi-Fi do not interfere with each other at all.  This was addressed in the 802.15.4, 802.15.1 and 802.11 standards by the IEEE many years ago. Just because multiple technologies use the same frequency, does not mean they interfere with each other. 
 
I vote babysteps. Start with SmartThings (and abandon the "also is a primary alarm" concept, you need something FAR more reliable than any of those). Buy and plug stuff into that. Get your toes wet for a super low price for the controller, which is key as devices to control are more $$. I personally opted for Leviton zWave controllers, but they're $70/each (or more). Start with 2, see if you get value out of it.
 
Later if you want to go further, you can do any of the above (software or hardware controllers), keep SmartThings as the primary zWave controller, replicate to one of their devices as a secondary controller, and go both ways. No money lost or wasted.
 
For me, I like implementing multiple paths of control. SmartThings has a native app, the other controllers also have their own apps, or layer on other stuff.
 
This is a complex field, going slow moar better than jumping in and committing.  
 
btw for alarms, get a real panel that can be integrated. I have an Elk but I think there are cheaper options. I can't speak to their strengths though, as i'm not educated enough about them. 100% of the reason I went with Elk was that they have a subforum here so I could talk to them or others who've installed them to get help.
 
The NAS isn't the platform for IP camera, just storage, so what is going to be used to drive the front end into the storage? You need to consider that, and honestly, a few cameras are going to suck up resources enough to require a dedicated machine, especially if you're running any sort of quality or large frames.
 
Honeywell Tuxedo is only a user interface to a wired alarm panel. You need to look at the back end there and whether or not you're going to go RMR based service or not. You're putting big limits by wanting a direct phone call or SMS.....you either need to pick a panel that can do such natively or go via RMR or pro monitoring solutions. Honestly, security is NOT something you want to pick a consumer level quality item for, spend for the pro panel and then what you really need there first. Security should always be put on a dedicated embedded piece of hardware (traditional panel) for many reasons unless you're really dealing with enterprise level hardware (which you're not going to see at your pricepoint, guaranteed).
 
Which HA system to choose.  Not an easy answer.  I have Insteon with ISY 994i and ELK M1G in my present house which I am in the process of selling.  Both ELK and ISY have worked well.  However, I decided to go with zwave in my new house because of a broader selection of devices.  Specifically the garage door control devices, such as the Linear unit, and the door locks using integrated zwave are better then what is available in Insteon for those device types.  ISY is the best controller I have found for Insteon support.  I decided to go with zwave and the Homeseer Zee S2 for my new house because their zwave support is much more developed then the zwave support in the ISY.  
 
The Zee user interface takes so getting used to but it has comprehensive support for zwave and I was able to include my Leviton dimmers and switches, my Everspring motion detectors, and the Linear Garage Dr. Controller in the zwave network.  Both the ISY and the Zee interconnect with the ELK M1G which I use for my security, fire, and CO systems.  There is a plugin available for the Zee which lets it see all ELK: zones, outputs, tasks, counters, lighting, etc and they can trigger events in the Zee  and the Zee can trigger actions in the ELK.  It is very flexible.  The Zee also supports Insteon but that support is fairly basic.  I am using some spare Insteon dimmable LED bulbs in my new place and the Zee had no trouble adding and connecting with them to its Insteon add-in.
 
I was also able to include my zwave garage door status as an ELK security zone by having the Zee trigger an ELK output which I connected to an ELK input zone and used a 400 ohm resistor to provide a 35ma pull down load because both ELK outputs and zone inputs float to 12v which not loaded.  I also am using the ELK speaker system to speak all automation conditions by using ELK tasks set up for each phrase and the Zee triggers these tasks.  This avoids an installation with multiple voices, and multiple speakers.  Using ELK tasks eliminates the slow speaking that occurs if you have the Zee trigger speaking individual words to make up a phrase in the ELK. 
 
After having used both of these technologies. My input is that Insteon is easier to install and setup then zwave is.  It requires much less knowledge of how Insteon works to set it up.  Insteon does not have as many device choices as zwave has and I found that the Insteon door lock and garage door control devices, do not measure up.  Most insteon devices use mechanical settings in the devices themselves to make advanced changes to how the device operates.  Zwave is probably 2x to 3x harder to implement because not only is the device inclusion process more involved that you have to perform for each device, any device parameter changes are done using the advanced settings capabilities in the zwave protocol itself which can get complicated especially when using the generic setup menus that most zwave controllers provide because the device configuration variations across a wide vendor base of zwave devices are too numerous to provide other then generic support to allow configuring all these device parameters. With Insteon, you just have plug the device in or in the case of wireless motion detectors, press the button to place them in programming mode.  You just enter the 6 digit xx.xx.xx device address provided on the device label, and click the find button in the controller screen, and it finds and adds the device and it is ready to use.  Insteon's dual technology's use of both power wiring and wireless signaling makes it less sensitive to dead zone issues that can be an issue in a zwave installation and may require adding repeaters to correct such issues.  However with Insteon, an AC branch bridge needs to be installed in your electrical box for Insteon to make full use of both power branches that run throughout the house.  The branches can be coupled by the wireless links in devices but the dual path for all devices is not maintained unless the bridge is added in the power panel to couple the signal to the other branch. 
 
It is hard to argue which technology is better.  I can built arguments in either direction and it seems for many, it comes down to which flavor of cool-aid they drank first. I really have not found any so called white papers which present other then a biased pro and cons set of arguments.  I have not been able to find even one case where side by side tests were set up and performed and measurements taken and logs analyized. To make matters worst, many who write these white papers often only have used, and therefore really know only one of the technologies and they often short change the others in their white paper write-ups.
 
I have no experience with other automation technologies such as ZigBee, UPB, etc.  However, I will say that when it comes to Insteon vs zwave, both work fine when properly set up and issues such as dead spots, for zwave, and AC branch bridging for Insteon are addressed.  Both systems usually work flawlessly and either one is a huge step forward from the X-10 implementations.  Both use ACK/NAK CRC FSK radio systems and retransmit when a message error occurs. For me it comes down to: Ease of Use vs. Broader Device Support.
 
foxtail22 said:
Which HA system to choose.  Not an easy answer.  I have Insteon with ISY 994i and ELK M1G in my present house which I am in the process of selling.  Both ELK and ISY have worked well.  However, I decided to go with zwave in my new house because of a broader selection of devices.  Specifically the garage door control devices, such as the Linear unit, and the door locks using integrated zwave are better then what is available in Insteon for those device types.  ISY is the best controller I have found for Insteon support.  I decided to go with zwave and the Homeseer Zee S2 for my new house because their zwave support is much more developed then the zwave support in the ISY.  
Sorry for the late follow up question, but could you elaborate on how the Homeseer Zee S2 support for Zwave is better than the ISY?
 
I would just point out that the issues of viruses, patches, updates, etc... are only really relevant if you don't treat the HA machine like an appliance. The reason you need those things on regular computers is because you use them on a daily basis, running programs, some you may have downloaded, connecting to web sites and all that. That doesn't happen on a machine that you are treating as an automation appliance. You set it up and you put it in the closet and you don't interact with it directly. You only access it via the HA system's touch screen clients, and configuration client.
 
So those types of concerns aren't really applicable if you set it up correctly. Strip it down to just the OS features you need, put it on an SSD, configure it, and otherwise leave it alone. 
 
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