Help/Recommendations securing out building

[shenandoah75]

My house is controlled with an Elk M1 and i have conduit, cat6, coax, fiber running between the house and my outbuilding (room in the conduit for more if i need it). I have a 20 x 30 outbuilindg split into two pieces:

1) front (19x20) is a garage (16' door), side access door, 2 4' wide windows
2) back (11x19) is my home office with french doors and 1 4' wide window

Its block construction and Both interiors are drywalled/finished already. I don't want to tear up the drywall, so putting receesed contacts is probably a no go.

Current thinking is the following:
(1) Elk M1XIN
(1) Elk M1XOVR (for two sprinkler zones, garage door relay)
(1) ELK-TRG2440  (for power supply for relays/sprinklers)
(1) GRI200-36 (garage door sensor)

Now question is the security side... I've seen some combo motion/glass break smoke detectors and am thinking all would be a good idea... I would want two of each - whatever i choose (one for garage, one for office).

http://www.smarthome.com/71242.html (pir & glass)
http://www.smarthome.com/797510.html (pir / micro)
http://www.smarthome.com/7493.HTML ("")
http://www.smarthome.com/7496S.HTML (glass break)
http://www.smarthome.com/7497r.html or 7487.html (fire/smoke)


questions:
1) Any recommmendations on the above components or others?

2) i'll have a cat6 cable with 4 conductors providing the 485 databus to the Elk expanders... Thus these would be covered by power from the M1 in event of power failure. But what about the smokes,motion, etc? I would like to have everything on 12volt backup as well without buying a dedicated supply in the outuilding (Although i am willing if that's really the best)... Can i send enough amperage from the Elk down 2 of the other conductors in the cat 6 or maybe pair them up since i have 4 leftover? I could also run dedicated power wires for 150' feet in the conduit? Other thing is if i get 4 wire smokes, guess i want two power feeds so i can reset the smokes?

Any/all other feedback/input appreciated?



thx in advance
-brad

 

[shenandoah75]

Oh ya no need for pet immune sensors...

Also, For arming/disarming, thinking these will become zones 2 and 3... and use the new ELK-M1KPAS keypads once released. Not sure whether to mount inside or out yet... Could potentially mount both pads in the house and disarm when i go out in the morning.

-brad

 

[Spanky]

Double up on the power conductors in the CAT5 or run separate power wires, 18 to 16 guage to the out building.

 

[shenandoah75]

Some more questions...

I've been looking at Ge's line of glass breaks (either 2000/2200), Napco's motions (maybe C100STE20 )? Any comments on these?

Also, general question on motion... in the garage, no matter what wall i put this on, i have windows on both sides. So whether it's on the back wall or in one of the back wall corners, thw window would be in path of the beams...

Will rustling of shrubs, tree shadows, etc pose a risk? I don't think so with a dual technology sensor?

thx in advance
-brad

 

[carry15+1]

Oh ya no need for pet immune sensors...

Also, For arming/disarming, thinking these will become zones 2 and 3... and use the new ELK-M1KPAS keypads once released. Not sure whether to mount inside or out yet... Could potentially mount both pads in the house and disarm when i go out in the morning.

-brad

Hi Brad,

I'll offer some food for thought.

I have a pair of out buildings and an M1G.

You said " Also, For arming/disarming, thinking these will become zones 2 and 3..."

Is your entire house on zone 1? The M1G can do 8 "areas" or partitions. I have my house on partition #1 and the outbuildings on partitions 2 & 3. This way I can arm the outbuildings separate from the house. It also allows me to give a access code to my neighbor which only allows him to disarm the building(s) I choose.

In my main outbuilding (24 x 36) I have typical mag contacts on all the doors. No protection on the windows. I have a pair of dual tech motions wired in parallel so that both must trip for an alarm. No pets, but often a few moths live in the building. Except for one corner area you cannot move inside the building without tripping the motions.

John - SW Missouri

 

[shenandoah75]

John - many thx...

Yep - whole house is 1 area and your setup is almost exactly what i'm thinking. I'm curious to a few things on your setup (i think spanky got on be before for using zone instead of area sorry about the confusion)

1) do you have the full keypads in each location or use something else to arm/disarm? i just don't see paying for the standard ones and think i'll hold off for now until those lutron style numeric pads are released unless there's another cheaper alternative....

2) what brand of motions did you use... for the price, the napco's seem like a good deal.

3) i like the idea of running motions in parallel - i could put two in opposing corners and nothing outside the glass in view of one could trip the other - you're the man!!! on my office where i don't have the problem, think i'll stick with 1 in a corner where door/window walls intersect so there no visibility to outside. Or is there another reason to do parallel?

-brad

 

[Steve]

My understanding of motions is the Infrared ones won't detect moving trees, etc thru windows, it needs to sense reflected heat. Microwave however will penetrate windows and can be tripped. So I think if you use Infrared only, or a combo you should be ok. I was going to use the BV500's but had to deal with pets there, but it should be a good unit.

 

[rfdesq]

I have a pair of dual tech motions wired in parallel so that both must trip for an alarm.

I'm wondering why you don't use the cross zone verify ability of the M1? Don't you mean wired in series so both have to trip?

 

[carry15+1]

Hi Brad,


"rfdesq...
-------
I'm wondering why you don't use the cross zone verify ability of the M1? Don't you mean wired in series so both have to trip? "

I had a NX8E system before, all I've taken the time to do is change EOL resistors so far. Too hot yet to really do any detailed work ;-) I'll look into the cross zone verify though - hadn't thought about it before. Just off the top of my head though I'm thinking to change it would require another 4c cable to separate the detectors, which are within 12" of each other now.

-----------------
shenandoah75....

Yes, I used 5 standard LCD keypads; 3 in the house, one in the attached garage and one in the main outbuilding. If you're comfortable with it, you can use a keyswitch on your outbuilding to arm/disarm the system - cheapest option there is.

I believe I used Napco C-100STE sensors. I had some in my parts boxes and they have worked out really well....never a false in over 5 years. No other reason for dual motions that I'm aware of except to eliminate false alarms from bugs, or an overly sensitive detector.

Incidentally if I didn't mention it, I recommend 4-wire smokes, each smoke on it's own zone. 2-wire are easier to install, but with more than one building you really need the LCD to identify which detector has tripped. Not only that, you can have a voice message to your cell tell you which building is burning ;-(

I also have rate-of-rise 135 f heats in the out buildings and ROR-190's in my attic.

I have a dual temp. Ademco (IIRC) sensor which I use to monitor the internal temperature of out main freezer. I guess I could have used the Elk, but again this is left over stuff from my Caddx system.

Our house was hit by a tornado back in March and that was the reason for "upgrading" to the Elk. I had to replace all the sensors in the house, but the outbuildings stood up pretty well and so I'm just connecting the old stuff to the Elk.

Incidentally, anybody looking for GE/Caddx NX8E boards, keypads, cans, etc could drop me a line....I have a bunch I won't be using anytime soon. A great system, just not as great as the M1G.

John

 

[carry15+1]

QUOTE (carry15+1 @ Aug 25 2006, 10:37 AM)
I have a pair of dual tech motions wired in parallel so that both must trip for an alarm.

I'm wondering why you don't use the cross zone verify ability of the M1? Don't you mean wired in series so both have to trip?

I have a devil of a time remembering if they are wired in series or parallel. As they are wired thru normally closed contacts I believe they are wired in parallel so both must open to trip the zone. But anyone with a more active mind than mine will soon figure out how to do it. At 63 I'm finding things that were once simple, more and more difficult. B)

 

[rfdesq]

I stand corrected. If they are wired in parallel they both have to open, if NC, to alarm.