Hey you. Tell me how you would build your house. Why am I wrong?

[milnejames]

I've been searching for weeks and my head is spinning. There are literally just too many friggin options. So make this easy for me. Tell me what YOU would do to accomplish this. I am tech savvy so DIY only options please. I don't need someone to install it for me. 
 
I'm building a house 3500+ square feet. 5 bedrooms + office. Large patio/party outdoor area. CAT 6 literally everywhere with conduit for future proofing all run to a central location. 
 
My goals:
 
1) Whole home intercom/audio. 2/4/8 Sources maybe, and master bath/5 beds/office/kitchen+living room/basement family room/deck/patio/front door (Total of 12 ish zones) I can consolidate if price requires. Intercom is a MUST(wife required). I'd also like the kids to be able to use bluetooth and connect their iPod's to their room audio through the same panel to play in their rooms. How would I wire this? CAT 6 to the panel and 14/16 gauge to the panel then to each speaker in series per zone?
 
2) Automate everything lights/cameras/sprinklers/locks/etc. This actually seems like the easy part. Vera3 and away I go. Correct me if I'm an idiot. The biggest part, integrate #1 into this. 
 
That's it. I think I know how to do #2 with the aforementioned equipment, but #1 is eluding my mental capacity with the sheer amount of options. 
 
That's it. Tell me what to do.
 
Cheers,
 
-James

 

[pete_c]

Welcome to Cocoontech James.
 
Many folks here have done similar to you and written about it here on Cocoontech.
 
That you are asking about what you want to do means you are in the planning stages which is a good thing.
 
I recall building a home in the 1970's and wanted music and intercoms everywhere.  That said I did put intercoms outside on the wrap around deck and everywhere on the inside.  Back then used the intercoms for mostly music (well 99% of the time).
 
Fast forward to the 1900's another home decided not to have intercoms everywhere but rather went to zoned audio with speakers everywhere.
 
I have recently done sub zones with multimedia amplifiers and combined them with zoned audio.
 
Primitive I guess but its a simple switch from whole house audio to subzone here.
 
The whole intercom as an intercom world has changed a bit where now you can mix video / audio PBX style on a tiny footprint with a tiny speaker / display etc.
 
Music perception and sound quality is OK these days with a tablet but its still not the same as larger speaker in a room.  It is way better today than years ago.  My kids are happy with their streaming music little cell phones.  My 18 month old grandson is happy watching Netflix movies on his Android tablet.   I wonder having an LCD TV in the bedrooms and preferences to watching a movie on a tablet instead; but playing a video game on the LCD TV.
 
I do notice a bit of a similiarity though to the first little transistor radios in the 1960's that provided music in a tiny tinny sound speaker when all that mattered was that little bit of sound.
 
Wire for everything and then some such that you cover every option.
 
Try it all and show (demonstrate it to) wife; as WAF is typically related to the acceptance of home automation and other technologies in the house.
 
You know your family and wife.  
 
I have a friend who showed his wife how to work multifunction wall plates that were not labeled (no LCD / touchscreens) in the bathrooms of his home.
 
She was fine with one wall plate and 8 buttons relating to the automation of the bathrooms in their home.
 
I tried to do that follow me lighting with my wife and she did not like it.
 
You are not wrong; you are right because you are aware of what you want.

 

[tmbrown97]

Seems reasonable enough - honestly an HAI system I think would do everything you want almost out of the box; they have intercom, security, automation, etc.
 
Personally I don't feel like Z-Wave is anywhere near pro-grade; it seems more X10-ish in that a certain amount of continual maintenance and tinkering may be required.  I've had great success with UBP; RadioRa2 seems great.  Others can chime in here; but I prefer having the hardwired interface to my HVAC; lighting is pretty well integrated.  I use an Elk M1.  Using input/output expanders you have all the I/O you could need - I just use a relay board to control my sprinklers and it works great.  I'm about to add a dedicated sprinkler zone that's for kid's toys along with a wireless button on the wall that they can hit - similar to a spray park - so they can hit a button on the wall any time they want the water on for 2 minutes.  Also controls my garage doors, etc.
 
Otherwise - there are some options - I like the Russound audio solution the best - though it's not integrated seamlessly with their intercom - you have to hook the audio system in parallel to their CommPoint intercom - but the two work well together.  There are drivers and options to integrate Russound with more devices.  Otherwise I believe the HTD.com has the built in intercom; though integration support may not be the greatest... it didn't have a great method for tying in a paging system from what I recall - like for a system to make whole house announcements.  Currently I get those via the Elk - since I have plenty of keypads with embedded speakers along with some standalone speakers, I get sufficient coverage.
 
For audio, you can usually have a local-zone override - it's an option that ties in to the keypad usually - you need to figure out specifically what your chosen system will accommodate. I'll say that bluetooth audio is absolutely deplorable compared to a wire or even an Apple Airport Express plugged in - If you're using Apple devices, AirPlay is the only way to go.  I'd definitely do one or two at the main controller as one or two of the zones - it's really handy to put the house in party mode, then use the phone in your pocket as a remote - whatever you listen to, spotify, pandora, youtube, local music - all streamed to your WHA and the ultimate remote is in your pocket with you.  Around our house, if a phone is upstairs or dead, it's just as easy to grab any available iPad and not miss a beat.

 

[milnejames]

What are your thoughts on the On-Q Unity system?

 

[pete_c]

I like the intercom.
 

 
 
Personally I have always liked the combo touch interface automation server thing.  I can today run automation on the back end of a little touchscreen tablet.  Doesn't need much to run these days.
 
I can run the "automation server" on any of the touchscreen interfaces today in the house (20 +)

 

[picta]

What are your thoughts on the On-Q Unity system?

 
It's a very nice intercom, but it is a "closed system", and there is no API to integrate other components into it or automate it. You need to push a button for any action aside from a few simple timed events.
 
As you are building a house and not looking for a retrofit solution, take a look at hard-wired automation options, such as already mentioned HAI or Elk based systems. Even if you do not end up with HAI, using it as an example will be helpful in planning out your wiring.
 
Z-wave may prove to be a challenge in a 3500 sf house, UPB or zigbee would be a better choice IMO.

 

[milnejames]

It's a very nice intercom, but it is a "closed system", and there is no API to integrate other components into it or automate it. You need to push a button for any action aside from a few simple timed events.
 
As you are building a house and not looking for a retrofit solution, take a look at hard-wired automation options, such as already mentioned HAI or Elk based systems. Even if you do not end up with HAI, using it as an example will be helpful in planning out your wiring.
 
Z-wave may prove to be a challenge in a 3500 sf house, UPB or zigbee would be a better choice IMO.

 
So this ELK or HAI stuff is greek to me as I've been looking into the Vera. Can you give me starting point? Elk M1 then what? HAI what?

 

[tmbrown97]

The Vera still seems more hobbyist to me whereas a Elk M1 Gold or HAI OmniPro II are more "pro" solutions.  The HAI can be a complete kit with audio, intercom, lighting, HVAC, Security - all in a single system that works together out of the box.  It's a little pricey but that's because you're buying everything up front - you can spend years expanding on it without really incurring more costs.  That's contrary to the instincts of the common hobbyist but I'd bet many of us started small then once we figured things out, wouldn't hesitate to do that on our second run at automation.
 
If I were in your shoes today, I think I'd do the HAI OmniPro II just because they can run the entire ecosystem with plug & play touchscreens that control everything without much custom programming work.
 
I'm with picta - I've looked at that system a few times in desperate search for a simple wall-mount touchscreen with intercom and audio - but since I can't tie in my other systems, it quickly falls off the list.  I wish it were more open to 3rd party driver development - then it'd probably actually have a place in the automation market.

 

[milnejames]

The Vera still seems more hobbyist to me whereas a Elk M1 Gold or HAI OmniPro II are more "pro" solutions.  The HAI can be a complete kit with audio, intercom, lighting, HVAC, Security - all in a single system that works together out of the box.  It's a little pricey but that's because you're buying everything up front - you can spend years expanding on it without really incurring more costs.  That's contrary to the instincts of the common hobbyist but I'd bet many of us started small then once we figured things out, wouldn't hesitate to do that on our second run at automation.
 
If I were in your shoes today, I think I'd do the HAI OmniPro II just because they can run the entire ecosystem with plug & play touchscreens that control everything without much custom programming work.
 
I'm with picta - I've looked at that system a few times in desperate search for a simple wall-mount touchscreen with intercom and audio - but since I can't tie in my other systems, it quickly falls off the list.  I wish it were more open to 3rd party driver development - then it'd probably actually have a place in the automation market.

 
You say intercom, but how? That's the only piece I'm missing. 

 

[Frunple]

I agree with the above. HAI, Russound.
As far as bluetooth audio... instead just go with Sonos Zoneplayers. Gives you the option of "this device" as an audio player. So if you use the Sonos app on your phone, you can select "this device" and play all the music that's on your phone over the Russound.
 
Vera is good for what it is.... 

 

[pete_c]

You say intercom, but how? That's the only piece I'm missing.

 
Here is the intercom set up for the Omnitouch 5.7e (legacy).
 
September 14th, 2010
HAI will demonstrate the Intercom at CEDIA to be held in Atlanta, GA, September 23-26, 2010, in Booth 4046.  An HAI New Products seminar will be held on 9/24 from 2:00 – 3:00 in Room 1408 of the Georgia World Congress Center.

Home Automation, Inc. (HAI), leading manufacturer of integrated security and home automation products since 1985, announced that VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) intercom is being added to the OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens and is expected to be available in October.  Intercom functionality for OmniTouch 10pe Portable Touchscreens and OmniTouchPro interface software for third-party Windows Touchscreens is expected to be available in Q4 2010.

The VoIP Intercom is point-to-point from one OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreen to another.  Existing homeowners with OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens can add Touchscreen-to-Touchscreen intercom functionality with a free firmware update.  New OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens will ship with this attribute.
 
Dealers can associate supported surveillance cameras with any intercom station, allowing homeowners to both speak with and see their guest.  The intercom features manual accept/reject options, but also possesses the ability to auto-answer.  To ensure privacy, the intercom features a do-not-disturb mode.

Local settings at each OmniTouch 5.7e control intercom volume levels (for both voice levels and ring levels) as well as privacy options (auto-answer, do not disturb, and mute).  The screen will notify the homeowner where the message originated (front door, guest bedroom, etc).
 
http://www.homeauto.com/newsandevents/pressreleases/content/20100914VoIPIntercom.asp
 

 

[pete_c]

Here started to automate in the late 1970's.  In the 1980's I did purchase a combo security / TTS / X-10 automation panel.  It was primitive with some 48 zones and TTS was just recorded pieces of the owner's secretary.  Programming it was a real PITA as it was done with multiple buttons (not via the keypads) on the panel board and only LEDs for feedback at the time for the sequences for programming.  Purchased the OPII (HAI OmniPro II) in the early 2000's to install in a new home.
 
I like both the Elk and the HAI offerings.  I went to the HAI panel for a "compact" build in another home (around 2000) where everything fits in a tiny closet (well ceiling is high) with two cans (HAI & Leviton) which takes care of all of the home automation. (its sort of a closet in a closet configuration).  LV pre-wire was done in two endeavors; one for me by me (3 days) and one done by a security company subcontracted by the builder (hours of one day). (Everything is wired and today still only using 30% of what was prewired).
 
Started to play with Homeseer (software automation) in the late 1990's.  Today its doing what the HAI panel cannot do with some 20 plus hardware device connections (IE: direct NOAA satellite weather mapping feeds versus the internet stuff).
 
There is much information here relating to automation DIY stuff and commercial stuff.
 
You are looking in the right place, Cocoontech, relating to what you are looking to do relating to automation.
 
Just a repost copy and paste.
 

Leviton Acquires Home Automation, Inc.


Melville, New York, August 2, 2012 – Leviton today announced the acquisition of Home Automation, Inc. (HAI), a leader in home automation controls for residential and light commercial applications. HAI enhances Leviton’s current home automation offerings by providing homeowners with solutions that combine security, energy management and entertainment controls, in user-friendly applications.
Integrating HAI products with Leviton’s solutions provides homeowners with a smart choice for automation and remote access capabilities. HAI has a wide-ranging product offering, from systems that allow homeowners to control their automated video surveillance system and audio devices over the Internet to programmable thermostats and light switches accessible directly from a smart phone.
“Leviton’s acquisition of HAI represents a significant expansion of our offerings in the residential market, and furthers Leviton’s commitment to providing customers with the latest technologies as affordable, easy-to-use solutions,” said Daryoush Larizadeh, Chief Operating Officer of Leviton. “Leviton and HAI are two established brands coming together to offer a complete whole home automation solution that customers can trust.”
HAI will operate as a new, standalone business unit, branded HAI by Leviton, and maintain operations in New Orleans. The new business unit will be managed by Jay McLellan, current CEO and president of HAI, who will report directly to Daryoush Larizadeh. HAI product lines will soon be available through Leviton’s U.S. and international channel partners and distributors. Leviton also plans to provide its builder and contractor network with the necessary training for installing HAI systems.
“We are proud to be part of the Leviton team, joining a company with a rich history and well-established brand,” added Mr. McLellan. “Through the combined technologies from Leviton and HAI, we anticipate continued growth and innovation in the home automation space, providing homeowners with additional advancements for years to come.”
The acquisition of HAI continues Leviton’s commitment to strategic growth and innovation. Leviton has evolved into a global provider of electrical wiring devices, data connectivity solutions and lighting and energy management systems for a variety of end-use markets.
About Leviton
Leviton is the smart choice, providing the most comprehensive range of solutions to meet the needs of today’s residential, commercial and industrial buildings. Leveraging more than a century of experience, Leviton helps customers create sustainable, intelligent environments through its electrical wiring devices, network and data center connectivity solutions, and lighting energy management systems. From switches and receptacles, to daylight harvesting controls, networking systems, and equipment for charging electric vehicles, Leviton solutions help customers achieve savings in energy, time and cost, all while enhancing safety. For more information, visit www.leviton.com, www.facebook.com/leviton, www.twitter.com/leviton or www.youtube.com/levitonmfg.
About HAI
Home Automation, Inc. (HAI) is a privately held manufacturer of integrated automation and security products for residential and commercial use based in New Orleans, LA. Incorporated in 1985, HAI has developed a full line of award-winning automation products, including home control systems, programmable communicating thermostats, smart light switches, Whole Home Audio systems, video surveillance equipment, access control products, Touchscreen interfaces, and software that allows access and control of an automation system over the Internet. All products are sold through HAI’s worldwide network of Distribution Partners and installed by trained dealers in over 80 countries. For more information, visit www.homeauto.com., www.twitter.com/homeauto or www.facebook.com/homeautomationinc.

 
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=53615&minisite=10251

 

[milnejames]

Here is the intercom set up for the Omnitouch 5.7e (legacy).
 
September 14th, 2010
HAI will demonstrate the Intercom at CEDIA to be held in Atlanta, GA, September 23-26, 2010, in Booth 4046.  An HAI New Products seminar will be held on 9/24 from 2:00 – 3:00 in Room 1408 of the Georgia World Congress Center.

Home Automation, Inc. (HAI), leading manufacturer of integrated security and home automation products since 1985, announced that VoIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) intercom is being added to the OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens and is expected to be available in October.  Intercom functionality for OmniTouch 10pe Portable Touchscreens and OmniTouchPro interface software for third-party Windows Touchscreens is expected to be available in Q4 2010.

The VoIP Intercom is point-to-point from one OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreen to another.  Existing homeowners with OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens can add Touchscreen-to-Touchscreen intercom functionality with a free firmware update.  New OmniTouch 5.7e Touchscreens will ship with this attribute.
 
Dealers can associate supported surveillance cameras with any intercom station, allowing homeowners to both speak with and see their guest.  The intercom features manual accept/reject options, but also possesses the ability to auto-answer.  To ensure privacy, the intercom features a do-not-disturb mode.

Local settings at each OmniTouch 5.7e control intercom volume levels (for both voice levels and ring levels) as well as privacy options (auto-answer, do not disturb, and mute).  The screen will notify the homeowner where the message originated (front door, guest bedroom, etc).
 
http://www.homeauto.com/newsandevents/pressreleases/content/20100914VoIPIntercom.asp
 

 
The Omnitouch 5.7(e) is no longer being sold and the Omnitouch 7 doesn't have intercom. So this won't work because I can't even buy one with the functionality. So HOW do you do intercom with an Omnipro?
 
-James

 

[pete_c]

The Omnitouch 5.7(e) is no longer being sold and the Omnitouch 7 doesn't have intercom. So this won't work because I can't even buy one with the functionality. So HOW do you do intercom with an Omnipro?

 
Maybe they are waiting to see what are the best features of an intercom today or what folks are attracted to the most in an intercom. 
 
Like maybe a redesign of a touch panel with a couple of extra buttons where there is none today.  Folks do still like the tactile stuff along with the touchscreen stuff.  Personally I do; but I am old fashioned.  IE: my wife prefers to press a button in a dark room rather than see any illumination of a touchscreen.  She had me "shut off" the followi me lighting in the house using sensors a few years back.
 
I watched my kids play when they were infants with old CRT style touchscreens, touchpens, etc.  It was difficult for me to understand though (well they were 2-3 years old).  I watch my 2 year old grandson and he just randomly wipes his android screen in a sort of willy nilly fashion until he gets it right.

 

[DotNetDog]

I am currently about 2/3's done installing the Lync12 system from HTD.  That is a whole house audio with intercom system.  While it does not integrate with any automation system (that I know of), I do like the features that it offers.
 
I am maxing out the 12 zones and wish they offered the ability to daisy chain controllers to allow more zones....but I am making it work for me.  I have speakers with volume controls outside on my deck (2 locations - sun deck and a covered deck).  The sound quality is great!
 
The intercom feature was an after thought from HTD so it's a basic intercom system but that is OK for me.  No room monitoring (which keeps kids from monitoring mom & dad's room, too).  
 
Otherwise, I have the Elk M1G with a ton of zones.  In fact, I'm adding a driveway sensor this week.  I have water/leak sensors everywhere there is a water source in my house.  Unfortunately, no HTD integration with the M1G.
 
If you have any question on the HTD Lync12 system feel free to ask.  I'm no expert but maybe I can answer them.