Hire or DIY wiring?

[jlokanis]

Our new house is about 50% framed and I am getting antsy about firming up the plan for the low voltage wiring. I have never installed wire in the walls before, but have done my share of HA (X10, Insteon, IR repeaters, Video dist.) with our current house and it's existing wiring.
I met with the HA sub that my GC uses. He seems like a good guy and was willing to work with me on all my *crazy* ideas, but when it came down to numbers, it was more that I expected. Here is what he quoted:
~$4,000 for wire, wall boxes and install labor.
~$2,000 for trimout (stripping the wires and installing the connector plates after drywall.)

My install consists of the following:
~15 drops with 2 RG6 and 2 CAT5 each.
Security wiring for doors, windows, motion/glass break.
4 security camera drops.
4 runs of L+R speaker wire.
Some other misc wires (ext temp sensors, Cat5 for RedRadio LCDs, announcement speakers, VR mikes, etc.)

The house is 3 stories (if you include the basement). It has about a 1800sqft footprint. There is about 5000sqft of total space (including the unfinished basement).

So, my question is: How hard would it be to install all this by myself? How much could I save?

My planned install would consist of:
Elk M1G for security and some HA.
Windows PC for other HA.
Insteon for lighting.
(and much more as time and $ allows)

My end goal is to have wiring that can meet today's needs and adapt over time as I add new features...

Thanks for your input!

-John

ps. If you vote DIY, can you give me a list of the tools and/or books you suggest to help me do it right?

 

[upstatemike]

Did he give you a figure of man-hours required? What kind of boxes did he spec out? Metal? Plastic?

Does he ring out the wires to verify them after they are run? What does he do to protect the wires from sheetrockers? Who is responsible for fixing sheetrocker caused damage? Do the wires get tested again after the walls go up so problems can be discovered before the paint and trim phase?

 

[WayneW]

So, my question is: How hard would it be to install all this by myself? How much could I save?

Are you even allowed to do it yourself? From what I have heard, unless you are the GC or have made previous arrangements, most GCs will not allow you to do anything yourself.

 

[dublin00]

To be honest that quote sounds pretty good, but I would really check the details as upstatemike suggested.

Six years ago I paid $6000 for similar work on a 4100sqft house. I only had 11 outlets, but I had a lot more speakers+volume controls wired (including two surround rooms) plus my install cost included the install/test for all of the alarm sensors. All those alarm sensors are a lot of work in a big house (I have 59 windows in my house for instance).

You didn't mention if your installer is putting in the alarm/wiring closet/demark boxes. That also costs money too. Don't forget about those.

 

[tech-home]

In a 5000sq ft house a few thousand isn't too much added to be right.

You could do it yourself though you don't have much time to learn to do it right.

 

[Michael McSharry]

I did my own wiring including both the 120/240 and all the low voltage stuff. For all the interior rough-in the only tools I used were a hardy 1/2" drill with bits that had a screw point to pull the bit through the wood, wire cutters, a blade to cut the cover and basic wire stripper. I also made a spool dispenser from some 2x4 and metal rod so the wire would feed smoothly.

The exterior was trenched and I used 2" and 4" sched 40 PVC. Just some glue to attach the 20' PVC lengths, an air gun to blow the fish rope and then 600ft of 1/2 rope to actually pull the wire from the steet junction. Power company pulled the feed from the transformer to the meter at the house.

Everything was home-runned either to the circuit breaker for 120/240 or to a central location reserved for all the low voltage stuff. About 35 120/240 circuits and about 20 low voltage runs. Each low voltage run consisted of 2 RG6 and 2 Cat5 lines. I did not run door/window security wiring, but if I had it would of also gone back to the central location. There was also some special runs such as RG6 to the roof and various 14G speaker runs. I forgot the doorbell and garage door opener wiring so they had to be done the hard way.

I also embedded 2" PVC at a handfull of stragegic locations to span crawl-1st-2nd-Attic access points and left pull rope in each for future needs. It turns out that those became very usefull in short order and continue to be used on a regular basis.

The effort did not take much skill or special tools, but it certainly took a lot of effort. The exterior was one of the most difficult activities I have undertaken simply because of the mass of the wire and the PVC that had to be carried along a 600 ft trench. 600 ft of anything weights alot.

I thought the pulling of interior wire would never end. Each one had to be babied along the way through each of the holes and bends. Drilling holes and climbing up and down becomes fatiguing. I also made it harder on myself by using 12G rather than 14G for most of the runs. While the cost was about the same for 12G and 14G, the flexibilty during both pulling and attaching recepticales was more difficult for 12G. It also made some the the junction boxes more crowded. At least there were breaks when trips to the Home Depot had to be made to fetch yet another set of 1000ft rolls.

I never let this part of the construction out to bid so I do have a good point of cost comparison. I know that had I not done it myself I would not have been so generous with all the drop points and wires and this would have resulted in less flexibility now.

While I had considered empty conduit for vertical passages, I had not considered the concentrations of wiring that was later installed between activity centers. Additional access passages would have been a good idea.

 

[FrankMc]

Our new house is about 50% framed and I am getting antsy about firming up the plan for the low voltage wiring. I have never installed wire in the walls before, but have done my share of HA (X10, Insteon, IR repeaters, Video dist.) with our current house and it's existing wiring.
I met with the HA sub that my GC uses. He seems like a good guy and was willing to work with me on all my *crazy* ideas, but when it came down to numbers, it was more that I expected. Here is what he quoted:
~$4,000 for wire, wall boxes and install labor.
~$2,000 for trimout (stripping the wires and installing the connector plates after drywall.)

My install consists of the following:
~15 drops with 2 RG6 and 2 CAT5 each.
Security wiring for doors, windows, motion/glass break.
4 security camera drops.
4 runs of L+R speaker wire.
Some other misc wires (ext temp sensors, Cat5 for RedRadio LCDs, announcement speakers, VR mikes, etc.)

The house is 3 stories (if you include the basement). It has about a 1800sqft footprint. There is about 5000sqft of total space (including the unfinished basement).

So, my question is: How hard would it be to install all this by myself? How much could I save?

My planned install would consist of:
Elk M1G for security and some HA.
Windows PC for other HA.
Insteon for lighting.
(and much more as time and $ allows)

My end goal is to have wiring that can meet today's needs and adapt over time as I add new features...

Thanks for your input!

-John

ps. If you vote DIY, can you give me a list of the tools and/or books you suggest to help me do it right?

Hi John

Mighty be an idea to have a read of the wiring guide on the Automated Home Site


http://tinyurl.com/bzbyv

HTH
Frank

 

[jlokanis]

Thanks for the suggestions.
My understanding is the they will use plastic boxes and the labor for the wire install phase is two techs for two days.
I would assume they would test each wire, but I will make a point to ask.
They use nail guards to protect cables that pass through studs.

My budget was around $3000 for all this. So, looks like I will be spending a bit more if I hire them.

How about wiring up an Elk? Is this fairly straightforward?

Does the Elk have a means to monitor smoke detectors?

They were not too big on doing window sensors. They prefer glass break and motion. They said there is too much labor in putting the sensor in the window, plus risk of messing up the window. They charge about $130 per window to install the sensor. Seems kinda high to me.

-John

 

[upstatemike]

Sounds like about 6000 feet of wire so wire and plastic boxes should be under $1,000.00 which leaves $3,000.00 for labor divided by 32 man-hours. That puts the labor rate around $93.75 per hour... did I do that right?

 

[pkoslow]

The guys I hire here in CA are around $65hr for this kind of work. If materials are really only $1k, then this seems a little high for the labor?

Paul

 

[upstatemike]

$65/hr sounds high for pre-wire work. Maybe an OK rate for trimout and panel wiring but pre-wire seems like it should be more like $35-$40.

 

[pkoslow]

Here in California my auto mechanic charges $85hr, so $65hr for cabling doesn't seem so bad. :lol:

 

[upstatemike]

I think the hourly here for auto mechanics is $55-$65.

 

[eufreka]

I paid for materials/cable plus $25 per drop (18 in a 3,000 square foot house) for rough wire pulls using speedwrap (2x2) when the electricians were doing electrical rough-in. We bought the house with just the roughed in low voltage/data.

I then did all the terminations and testing at endpoints and headend on an as-needed basis. Plus the headend is all modular Panduit.

 

[Madcodger]

How about wiring up an Elk? Is this fairly straightforward?

Does the Elk have a means to monitor smoke detectors?

They were not too big on doing window sensors. They prefer glass break and motion. They said there is too much labor in putting the sensor in the window, plus risk of messing up the window. They charge about $130 per window to install the sensor. Seems kinda high to me.

-John

Wiring the Elk is really very simple. The manual is excellent, and very straightforward. Just remember to use the supplied end-of-line resistors on each loop running into the panel and you should be fine.

The Elk can monitor regular wired smoke detectors, although I've recently installed the Caddx wireless smoke detectors and really like them. For a new system, though, I would go with wired. And in my opinion, you simply can't beat an Elk M1 Gold. It is THE alarm system to have if you have any interest in automation.

As for window sensors, some installers don't like them because they are very labor intensive. However, I think they provide a much more reliable level of security. Glass breakage detectors are fine, but most crooks are going to need to get a window or door open to get in whether they break a glass or not. I think a pried open window is just as likely as broken glass, if not more so.

Internal motion sensors are also great and I have several, but they don't go off until someone is INSIDE your house. That makes them the second line of defense, not the first. I had the uncomfortable feeling once of seeing a stranger walk past my bedroom door, about six feet from my wife and I, in a vacation villa (on my honeymoon, no less). I chased him out and he got only a small amount of cash, but I woke up at that same time each night for the next three months. You do NOT want that feeling, ever! If it were me, I'd put those window sensors in (I sure did). However, that price sounds extremely high. I'd get another couple of quotes.

Finally, I've read the posts about hiring or doing it yourself, and for that price I would probably right a check. I completely rewired a house with 12G a few years back as part of a much larger remodel and rehab, and it is simply not any fun. I had the time to do it then, but there's no way I could do it now. Nor would I want to do so. There are far better ways to spend your time, and that's coming from a guy who normally likes working on projects of just about any type.