Home Automation Build From Scratch - Insteon, UPB or Z-Wave

[clsanchez77]

Hey all -

I am starting to think about building an HA system for my house. I am not new to the idea, but all my past projects were X-10 so I am a little behind the times and could sure use some guidance.

FIrst off, I have to settle on a technology. I had researched UPB to death because I had planned on putting in a HAI Omni system in new construction. However three kids and an economic crash later, I had to sell my lot and bought a house instead. Now I will be paying cash for the system and building it up over time. This means I need something scalable. The new Insteon standards seem to work well, but the newer items seem to be Z-Wave. So I am torn between the three. I am an engineer so my plan is to design this thing until my head explodes and then start actually working on it when my wife (also an engineer) starts withholding,,. Here is what I am looking to do in order of preference:

1. Remote iPhone Controllable
2. Hardware Controller & Mac Laptop Accessible/Compatible
3. HVAC Control for three thermostats/zones (maybe five)
4. Humidity Monitoring & Response (Bathrooms)
5. Outdoor Weather Monitoring & Fresh Air Intake Control
6. Lighting Control (70 at full build out)
7. Ceiling Fan Control (5 fans with light and speed control)
8. Limited Home A/V Control

And here are some bonus items that aren't needed but would just be nice:

• Door Lock Monitoring & Controls (Appear to be limited to Z-Wave)
• Garage Door Monitoring & Control
• Determine status of security system

So here are the details:

Controller - My preference is for a good hardware controller that has a good iPhone App/interface. Now I have looked into Indigo for Apple and would not throw that out, but it would be least preferred. Nothing that requires a PC. Definitely remote access through broadband. I am familiar with availabilities for Insteon and UPB but no experience. Am completely in the dark about Z-Wave Controllers.

HVAC Controls - Currently I have two 1-stage A/C's; 1 up and 1 down. I would like to monitor and control two thermostats and the thermostats should use remote temp sensors. Future plan is to replace this with a single 2-stage system and break it into multiple zones. Now only do I want to monitor all the zone thermostats, but I would like to be able to break the 2nd stage cool and the 2nd stage heat signal lines using a low voltage controller based on outdoor weather and/or indoor humidity (New Orleans) and/or occupancy. The thermostats are available on all 3 standards but the UPB is far more expensive. Also I am only aware of the low voltage controllers on Insteon.

Bathrooms - I would like to control my bath vents from humidity sensors, heat based on occupancy and/or schedule and temperature and activate a hot water circulation pump based on occupancy and/or sensor. I would likely put a box in the ceiling for the motion sensor and relays, and then use a multi-controller in the wall for manual control.

Fresh Air Intake - Would like to open a fresh air intake into the A/C based on outdoor weather (temp & humidity) or if a bath vent is activated. I would like to be able to manually override this to either open or close.

Lighting Controls - Self explanatory. About 70 different lights & lamps, indoor and out. Would use scene controls to simplify use. Outdoor lights controlled by sunset/timer. Indoor lamps on schedule.

Ceiling Fans - Not really looking to automate but would like to be able to remotely control all of them. I saw where Insteon has a new fan controller, supports light, 3 fan speeds and fan off. Have not seen this with UPB or Z-Wave.

A/V Controls - I am not really looking to control my family room A/V, because I would be in the family room already so I would just use the remote. What I want to be able to do though is control the 2nd zone on my Yamaha Receiver, which I plan to use for stereo outside and in the garage. Being able to turn the whole system off remotely would be a bonus. I also do not need to tie my remote into home control, as I will have iPhone access.

Door Locks Monitor & Control - I have five exterior doors on my house. It would be nice to verify through my system that they are locked and be able to lock them remotely. The only systems I have seen are Z-Wave and while they can be commanded via Insteon, there does not seem to be a solution to have them report status to Insteon. I saw where another forum member used a proximity sensor to overcome this. Very clever. I would rather not remove my door jamb trims for this.

Garage Door Monitor & Control - Same as front door and I saw an Insteon kit for this online, but have not seen anything on the other formats.

Security System - I already have a hardwired security system that covers all of my security needs. It is a very basic system. But it would be nice to be able to monitor the status of the system and even better to have an alarm contact me via broadband while the alarm system occupies the phone.

I am sure there are some other little things I missed, but is a good overall view of what I want. I would love to hear some input on your experiences with the various systems.

Thanks
Chris

 

[apostolakisl]

You are planning a lot of stuff.

I might suggest you consider replacing your security with an Elk and getting a bunch of relay boards to control many of your things. Occupancy sensors work well with the Elk and they can turn pumps on. You can also get temp probes for the Elk. Humidity sensors are more complicated but a model I once looked at from dwyer might work. It outputs 0-10v based on humidity which should work on an Elk analog zone.

As far as lighting control. Any of the three play with Elk. I have Insteon. Lots of folks hate it because of past troubles with quality but the issue is resolved as far as I can tell for at least a couple years now.

Insteon is very reliable, but it is not mission critical reliable. I would suggest that mission critical stuff be hard wired to the Elk. In other words, things like pumps and motors would probably be best hard wired.

The one very nice thing about Insteon is the ISY unit which seemlessly integrates with the Elk and offers a huge amount of programming control and integration to the internet and other networked devices. At present ISY only works with Insteon, x10, and to some extent xigbee. They have indicated that a zwave radio is in the works but I wouldn't count on it.

Insteon does have a very nice fan/light controller. I am not sure any other technology has something quite as full-functioned, but I am sure someone will point out that I am wrong on that.

Z-wave seems to be a promising technology. I have no experience with it, but if they get a zwave radio for the isy 944i then I will probably buy it and start adding some of that to my network.

Thermostat control is available with all of the technologies.

You mentioned controlling the system without a pc. The ISY exactly fits the bill. It is a tiny little thing and consumes a couple watts only. UPB has a device made by webmountain that is kind of the same thing. I don't know any details about the webmountain device. I am not familiar with any similar device for z-wave, but I haven't really looked for one either.

All in all you are going to need to spend many thousand dollars to get all this stuff. Depending on the brands and stuff I can't see you possibly getting in under 6 or 7 thousand and could easily go 10 to 20 with pricier brands and every gadget.

 

[jaymartin]

Hi Chris - thanks for considering Indigo for your solution.

A couple of things I'd like to point out: as you say, device capabilities are often hit-or-miss if you are selecting specifically based on protocol. INSTEON door locks aren't particularly impressive, Z-Wave garage door and ceiling fan solutions are thin to nonexistent, and generic I/O devices are uneven on all, etc. I'd like to suggest that you consider taking a different approach - find the best specific solutions for each of your needs then find the system that can integrate those solutions into a whole.

So, for example, let's say you want a INSTEON dimmers, Schlage Z-Wave Door Locks, a DSC alarm panel, an INSTEON Garage Door kit, Z-Wave multi-function sensors (temp/humidity/PIR), the Fanlinc for ceiling fan/light control, a Global Cache WiFi device to control your A/V equipment, EasyDAQ for digital/analog I/O (vents, etc), etc. Rather than trying to totally stick with a single technology where you'd have to settle for less capability (or even skip things you want to do because the technology doesn't support it), the other approach is to find a solution that will handle most if not all of the technologies you want to use. Of course, I'd suggest Indigo - but there are other solutions out there as well that will integrate all the pieces you're looking to put in place. The main thing is to find an easy-to-use extensible base product to begin building your system. Most of the hardware controllers aren't particularly good at doing multiple things well - they may attempt to support multiple technologies but most often focus most attention on one and the others suffer.

Just some other things to think about. Good luck in your search!

 

[SgtBilko]

Hi (first time !)
 
My situation is simlar to cisanchez77 with the exception that I am in the UK (less choice of hardware).
 
I too have an exisitng security system and want to stick with a mac (or dedicated controller).
 
I would be interested to see how you get on cissanchez77.
 
Jay - how could you connect / control existing wired PIRs to Indigo ?
 
Thanks