I hinted at it and here it is...

[AnthonyZ]

This was in my "in box" today...

Web Mountain is proud to announce a new UPB Dimmer that incorporates the latest UPB firmware [Gen2] which has been greatly enhanced to overcome powerline noise problems. The new Universal Transceiver, model SW-7, is available for immediate shipping. Quantities may be limited until the production process for the new module catches up to demand.

The SW-7 looks identical to the older SW-2, and it can handle the entire range of Web Mountain multi-rocker and multi-button faceplates. The SW-7 uses the same hardware as the SW-2, but has a different firmware load. In order to accommodate the newer, larger UPB core while maintaining important features like multi-faceplate support and variable response time, a few features have been removed from the SW-7:

- On power up, the SW-7’s LED will come up green, then go to blue (assuming the switch is in the off state) indicating the unit is powered up. There is no discernable pattern. This is a change from the SW-2 which flashes its LED in a blue/green pattern that indicates the firmware version. Very few installers or users have ever needed this function.
- Although the SW-7 has two pigtails (white/brown and white/red) to be used for slave switches in 3-way circuits, only the white/brown wire can be used to connect to a Web Mountain SW-3 Remote Switch. The white/red wire is not active. Very few installers have ever used the white/red wire in 3-way or n-way installations.
- The SW-7 does not support the manual linking mechanism whereby a switch can be linked to a button on a controller by a series of button taps. Although a few installers and end users have taken advantage of this SW-2 feature in the past, the vast majority of users prefer to configure UPB networks with UPStart due to its incredible power and flexibility.

Other important information:

Upstart V5.0 Build 7 or later is REQUIRED to recognize and configure an SW-7 properly. Although earlier versions of UPStart may APPEAR to recognize an SW-7, the switch may not operate correctly when programmed with an earlier version. UPStart is a free software utility offered by all UPB manufacturers. You can download the most current version of UPStart from www.webmtn.com - go to Support, then Downloads.

If you are facing challenges due to low signal level, rather than noise, the combination of Gen2 products and a Split Phase Repeater will offer a huge benefit in signal strength across both phases. In addition to the SW-7 dimmer, Web Mountain is currently offering Appliance Modules, Lamp Modules, Timers and PIMs in its Gen2 product line. Gen2 will still work seamlessly with any original UPB products that are installed in homes where attenuation and noise are not impeding performance.

 

[LightenUP]

I find this to be a major anouncment. I am a bit confused as to why more people aren't getting as excited as I about this. Over 60 reads and no other replies. Web Mountain deserves a ton of credit for listening to the issues some were having and going further than Simply Automated in how they approach supporting the product. I have used these and have had success where the originals would not work at all. And to boot the other products soon to follow are also going to be as stable. Yeah Web Mountain, I do beleive the original Simply Automated are good products but why buy from them when these are now available? In the systems we do, adding filters and couplers doesn't always make since, for us trying to keep costs down and having ease of installation means most.


I challenge all of you to try a comparison b/w the manufacturers (SA & WM). You will notice a difference in communication and reliability with absolute results. Try these where others have failed and share your results.

 

[WayneW]

I challenge all of you to try a comparison b/w the manufacturers (SA & WM).

Simply Automated manufacturers the Web Mountain stuff for them. Simply Automated still using the "Gen1" firmware is strictly a business/licensing decision, not a technical problem for them as they are obviously capable of building Gen2 devices for WM.

I would love to hear more real world examples of where Gen2 has fixed issues in previously Gen1 environments.

 

[LightenUP]

Simply Automated I beleive is looking to the future and decided not to put additional dollars into the UPB protocal. I can't blame them for making that as a business decision however I would be a little concerned if a home owner introduces noise on the powerline. I have used the noise tolerent firmware for jobs that had issues with noise and have witnessed the components operate in a much more reliable manner. I know nothing but hardwired systems are 100% but even doing comm tests the generations show measurable differences in Lesters and they just perform better.

If you have a job that has noise enough to cause issues with Gen1 try the new stuff and watch it work. I know PCS and HAI have already proven to themselves it was worth the improvement but I needed the pricing and flexibleness of SA. So I am very pleased to now have the same core protocal to rival the other manufacturers and still maintain price and funtional advantages.

 

[upstatemike]

Simply Automated I beleive is looking to the future and decided not to put additional dollars into the UPB protocal.

Are you saying that they are planning their future products around some other protocol?

 

[LightenUP]

That's the only conclusion I can have if they decide not to improve and compete with PCS or HAI.

 

[upstatemike]

That's the only conclusion I can have if they decide not to improve and compete with PCS or HAI.

If Simply Automated is dropping UPB then what protocol are they going to move to?

 

[Steve]

Maybe Mr. Webmtn can chime in on this one, but...

1. I always thought Web Mountain products were Simply Automated hardware with very slightly tweaked firmware. If this is the case, I am guessing that the SW-7 is essentially a US240 with a GenII firmware load. If that is the case it is very significant as now you will have a choice of all three mfg's switches with Gen II. Also, I can't see SAI then being far behind with their own Gen II firmware as who would now buy a US240 when you can get the identical SW-7 with Gen II support? So, it will be very interesting to see what happens there.

2. I can't imagine SAI abandoning UPB and going to another protocol, especially after releasing new products in the near future. I really think SAI just stubbornly believes their original stuff works just as well (if not better) and does not want to invest in Gen II firmware. So, if that is all the case, and the assumptions in 1 above are correct, then Web Mountain will kill SAI's sales and SAI will certainly respond by either cutting off the hardware from Web Mountain, or releasing their own Gen II devices (more likely).

It will certainly be interesting to see how SAI reacts.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

OK guys, let's not get carried away with all of this. Pleople are drawing conclusions here not based on facts.

1 - SA is NOT getting out of the UPB business - far from it. In fact, they will be releasing some new products within the next 90-120 days including a dual load switch, fan controller switch, and drapery controller. Not sure how that one started but it's not really productive to jump to such outrageous conclusions.

2 - SA makes the US240 switches for WM. WM has elected to add part of the Gen II features into their version of this switch. It will not have all of the Gen II capabilities that you see in a PCS switch, for instance, like the settable sensitivity level. I think we will also see some of the Gen II features in the WM plug-in modules as well.

3 - Although SA could add this functionality into their devices, they have elected not to. (Please keep in mind that I AM NOT a spokesperson for SA - merely sharing information that I can). SA has elected not to add the Gen II feature set into their products because they feel that the best way to address noise issues is to filter the noise if it becomes an issue instead of making the changes into the switches.

4 - Yes, you can purchase the Gen II WB version of the US240 if you are so inclined and willing to pay the extra money that it costs. Gary is a very nice guy and very knowledgeable about UPB and would be willing to take your order.

But please, let's not make stuff up.

thanks,

Martin

 

[upstatemike]

OK, that makes more sense. I couldn't see how Simply Automated would be changing protocols or what they could be changing to.

 

[AnthonyZ]

I challenge all of you to try a comparison b/w the manufacturers (SA & WM).

Simply Automated manufacturers the Web Mountain stuff for them. Simply Automated still using the "Gen1" firmware is strictly a business/licensing decision, not a technical problem for them as they are obviously capable of building Gen2 devices for WM.

I would love to hear more real world examples of where Gen2 has fixed issues in previously Gen1 environments.

Simply Automated is not manufacturing the dimmers with GenII firmware (as I understand it). That firmware upgrade is done in house at WM and is fully licensed. The way it's been described to me is that SA didn't want to pony up for the PCS licensing fees. Filters or firmware? Hmmm, let's see. As a dealer it's a no brainer. Bye bye SA...

 

[drozwood90]

...Pleople are drawing conclusions here not based on facts.
...

But please, let's not make stuff up.

thanks,

Martin

yeah PLeople! (Sorry Martin, couldn't help myself!!)

I for one, have NEVER needed Gen2 features / noise "immunity", so I look forward to the lower prices of Gen 1 stuff, as everyone else moves to Gen2 (or at least the vocal bunch on the forums).

The Dual Load switch is JUST in time! I am building a new home, and need to be able to put 2 loads in a single box (as I missed my chance to change the boxes to Double Gang). That, or cut a new / larger hole...eww....

Anyway, Martin, do you know if the dual load switch has BOTH sides as dimable? I have a circuit I use to control fans, and need the load to be a dimable load to function properly.

As for the drapery one...does it work with opening and closing blinds? If not, I suppose my original plan of powering a controller and motor combination from a switch will still work. I'm using the switch to give people local control over the blinds if the want, however can still feedback position to Homeseer from my controller (custom circuit).

Thanks!

--Dan

 

[webmtn]

In response to some of the questions raised in this thread, let me explain why Web Mountain is marketing a Gen2 dimmer. Web Mountain caters to both the retrofit and the new construction markets. Although the incidence of noise problems for UPB is very low, when one of our dealers does see noise it is more likely to come from a retrofit than a new installation. We have been working closely with PCS for quite some time to help them hone the new UPB core that is now being dubbed Gen2. Due to the limited number of homes that were experiencing any noise problems, we became a primary testing resource because, with our large retrofit base, we had access to more homes with noise problems than any other manufacturer. Our testing has borne out the huge increase in reliability that Gen2 provides in noisy environments. In almost every situation we went into, Gen2 either solved the problem completely, or dramatically improved it. This level of performance has continued to this day. As one example, one of our dealers had a house in St. Louis that had a fairly sizable RadioRa installation in it. Gen1 UPB would not work at all, let alone unreliably. We replaced the control devices with some early generation Gen2 devices, and now they work beautifully. Another dealer had a house that had a substantial number of Lutron Maestro dimmers. If you put the Maestro at its lowest dim setting, where it is not entirely off, it generates noise that interferes with Gen1 UPB, especially if you have the UPB dimmer in the same box with the Maestro. That problem went away with Gen2.

It’s common knowledge that we OEM almost all of our UPB products from Simply Automated. Most of those products utilize the same firmware that SAI puts into their units. But because our dealers have demanded a better solution to noise problems, we have licensed and produced our own Gen2 firmware for appliance modules, lamp modules, PIMs, Timers and now dimmers. We continue to use SAI hardware, but our Gen2 units have our own unique firmware installed in them.

Hope this helps.

 

[heffneil]

I don't know if anyone noticed but SA is going to release a UPB fan controlling switch? I am a pig in poop if that is true. I hope it looks very similar to the HAI product. How come no one is including the HAI stuff as an option to compare? I am an Omni guys so I seem to like the HAI product. Its easy to use. I have a little noise here in this house and no coupler. I am going to add the coupler and I suspect no problems...

Neil

 

[CalypsoCowboy]

On the HAI stuff, as far as I know they started shipping Generation 2 stuff last year so it should be in the pipeline. Personally that is what I'm looking into as the stand alone switches are the cheapest.

I would still love it if a UPB switch mfg make a switch without the pigtails but with spots to attach the wires like the Leviton Vizia RF switches, they were a snap to install and took up less room in the switch box.