I'm sure I will have an issue - window contacts

v1rtu0s1ty

Senior Member
Ok guys, went to the site today and they have installed all the windows. I also brought my measuring device to find out where I should drill on the frame. Unfortunately, this is what happened. I found out that I don't have enough depth to make a hole that will be equal to the guide on the plastic/vinyl side of the window. I'm really upset. I looked at all windows and they're all like that. What should I do now? :(

Here is the picture below on what I mean.

EDIT: I haven't really decided yet on what window contact sensors to get. Maybe there are other sensors you know of that will work for me.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

windowcontact_issue.jpg
 
hmm, those frames look nothing like mine. Not sure what is going on. You are targeting the center of the "side" of the window correct? Look at links below from my security How-To.

http://cocoontech.com/images/howto/security/DenSensor.JPG

http://cocoontech.com/images/howto/security/DenMagnet.JPG

Do you have a pic of the entire window frame and window installation? Do the windows slide up and down or left and right?

If left and right seems to me that hole location needs to be over about a half inch to hit the center of the window frame. Just can't tell from those pics.

You could always go with a small external sensor but I would do this only as a last resort.

Also if you look in my Security How-To I "custom" fit a mount in the bottom of a frame. I know people suggested against it but I did it as that was my last resort (beams on the side of those windows that I could not drill into).
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
hmm, those frames look nothing like mine.  Not sure what is going on.  You are targeting the center of the "side" of the window correct?

Yes, I'm targetting the center of the side. The center of the side window is the edge of the stud, at exactly where the OSB wall and stud butts together. :(
Or if you look back at my picture above, the center of the side window is the part where OSB wall is.

Look at links below from my security How-To.

http://cocoontech.com/images/howto/security/DenSensor.JPG

http://cocoontech.com/images/howto/security/DenMagnet.JPG

Do you have a pic of the entire window frame and window installation?  Do the windows slide up and down or left and right?
I have a picture of the entire window frame and window installation. I will prepare it after this post. The windows slide up and down.
 
The first picture is a wide angle shot of the empty window frame. The second shot was taken today(windows installed).

familyroomwide.jpg


familyroom_withwindow.jpg
 
And also, I have no idea on how to remove the window that moves up and down so I can install the magnets. Is it proper to put window contacts on the side if window goes up and down? Any other options?

Is there any window contact that can be place on the face of the window itself and not inside just like the side approach?

window_magnet.jpg
 
Since there are three windows in a single opening, you probably can't go through either side of the center window anyway. What about drilling through the bottom of the window frame, AKA the "stool", and continuing down through the rough framing under each window? Look at the bottom of each sash. Is there room to attach a magnet under there? If you take this approach, be sure to use a quality caulk when you insert the switch so water doesn't find its way down there.
 
Photon said:
Since there are three windows in a single opening, you probably can't go through either side of the center window anyway. What about drilling through the bottom of the window frame, AKA the "stool", and continuing down through the rough framing under each window? Look at the bottom of each sash. Is there room to attach a magnet under there? If you take this approach, be sure to use a quality caulk when you insert the switch so water doesn't find its way down there.
Yep, the reason I didn't not mention about putting the magnets at the bottom is due to water. I might be wrong though. Here are pictures of the window. If you notice the black line can be drilled. However, at the end of the window is a water drain. I didn't see the windows before install so I don't know the inside of the drain if we can actually see through end to end. I drew a picture of what I had in mind. I can really drill as I have space there for the vertical studs but my worry is the caulking of the bottom part of the window. I don't think I will be able to reach that part. I won't be able to caulk it since there will be a drywall. I also can't put the magnets now since technically, the house isn't mine yet. So what we're doing is just provisioning the wire so that when I move in, if the bottom works, I will drill the bottom part of the window from outside. Then I will try to fish the wire from there.

What do you think guys?

windowdrain.jpg



window_sideview.gif


I will go back to the house by afternoon to get the brand of the window and hopefully be able to find it in google.
 
Spanky said:
In the above drawing the magnet goes on the moveable part of the window and the switch is on the fixed part of the window.

Try this page from GE/Sentrol.
Yep, I meant it that way. I saw it on BraveSirRobbin's pictures. But any other solutions you know of assuming this approach will let water penetrate the lower hole?
 
Not sure how your windows are made, but if they are removeable you can drill a horizontal hole (3/8") in the window track and put a small super magnet (3/8" X 1/8") in the window frame away from the bottom of the window. The switches are available form most distributors. That way it is completely hidden. In the stud stage it is easy to wire. Make sure you leave enough loose wire to pull the switch out should you ever have to replace it.
 
I've been looking at this, and I guess I don't understand why you couldn't just drill along the joint between the OSB and the studs, through to the other side of the jack studs, and route the wires that way?

In places you might have to drill at an angle to catch the switch wires, but you can drill OSB ok. Even if you had to drill at a slight inward angle so you stayed within the interior surface of the OSB, the switch should still work with the magnet. Try a mock-up.

You could also notch the jack stud closest to the window so you had a place to pull the wires in. Or take the windows out after you locate where to put the switch, take a spade bit and drill a short "well" for the switch, notch or drill the stud for the wires, then put the switch in the well and put the window back in. The switches wouldn't even have to come through the window casing if your windows are vinyl.
 
Windows always present a challenge! Most alarm installers have quit putting switches on windows, using wall mount glass breakage (generally audio type) detectors instead. The big issue is warranty on the new fangle vinyl windows. Most Manufacturers warranties become VOID if you drill or make any modifications. Since this is personal home you can make that decision for yourself. Keep in mind that glass break detectors are often better for alarm purposes. That's because a crook could always break out the glass and crawl through without ever lifting or moving the window sashes.

Of course if you are wanting to know the state of the windows for automation purposes (eg shutting down the HVAC) then glass breakage det. won't do the job.

A more expensive alternative for double hung windows is to mount a wireless transmitter at the mid-point intersection where the top and bottom sashes meet. They aren't that ugly and can be attached using double face tape with the transmitter on top of the front sash and the magnet opposite on the top sash allowing detection if the sashes are moved.

FYI: There are also glass break detectors that use a combination of shock (impact) and the sound of shattering glass in order to alarm.
 
huggy59 said:
I've been looking at this, and I guess I don't understand why you couldn't just drill along the joint between the OSB and the studs, through to the other side of the jack studs, and route the wires that way?

In places you might have to drill at an angle to catch the switch wires, but you can drill OSB ok. Even if you had to drill at a slight inward angle so you stayed within the interior surface of the OSB, the switch should still work with the magnet. Try a mock-up.

You could also notch the jack stud closest to the window so you had a place to pull the wires in. Or take the windows out after you locate where to put the switch, take a spade bit and drill a short "well" for the switch, notch or drill the stud for the wires, then put the switch in the well and put the window back in. The switches wouldn't even have to come through the window casing if your windows are vinyl.
Ok, please let me know if I got your idea. You say that I should drill at an angle and not straight since if I do it straight, the drill that I'm holding is going to touch the osb wall preventing me from making a straight hole. Look at the picture below. It's a top view of how I think the installed window and studs are positioned.

Thanks guys for giving out ideas.

EDIT: I actually haven't seen a wired window contact sensor in real life. So I don't know the length of it. When installed, and it flushes with the window frame, will the body of switch reach the stud? That's where I'm worried when I drill at an angle. Or propably, the switch is too short to reach the studs. If that's the case, then I can really drill at an angle. All my next is then is figuring out how to remove the part with the glass.

drilling.gif
 
Before you commit yourself on a location make sure that you can mount a magnet on the window part.

For instance if you read my security how-to you will see that I had a situation with two windows that opened "up and down" vertically. There was a wire mechanism on both sides of the window and though I can't remember the details now, I could not install a magnet on the side frame of those windows.

So just watch out for "both" ends...
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
Before you commit yourself on a location make sure that you can mount a magnet on the window part.

For instance if you read my security how-to you will see that I had a situation with two windows that opened "up and down" vertically. There was a wire mechanism on both sides of the window and though I can't remember the details now, I could not install a magnet on the side frame of those windows.

So just watch out for "both" ends...
Based from the picture I have, I don't think I have a wire mechanism on the side. However, I noticed a 2/8", thread both left and right, which I think goes circular when you open and close the window. I saw the threads above the window, both sides.

Anyone, did I get what the other cocooner mentioned about drilling in angle? Did you see my drawing regarding drilling? Is that what he meant?

window_magnet.jpg
 
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