Insteon Developments

[RandyKnight]

Hi all,

I've been absent from the forum the last few months because I've been busy builidng a house! The painters are almost done so it's time to bite the bullet and order my light switches. After all the options I looked at and used in my current home as a testbed, I decided to go with Insteon.

I don't want this thread to be yet another Insteon vs. UPB vs. Z-Wave war ... but since I've been absent from the forum, have there been any earthshattering developments in the Insteon world I need to be aware of before aI drop $7K on switches?

 

[TCassio]

The latest development is that they are going to be selling a Power Line Modem. This is a device that will replace the PLC. As we all know the PLC has been plaqued with problems related to the "SDM" software that controls the PLC. Well they are doing away with the SDM in the PLM which means all control of insteon devices will be handled by the application driving it. I know Homeseer has a plugin that is just about ready for this device, I don't know about any other applications. The new device is supposed to be faster and more reliable. More Info Here

 

[Rupp]

Hi all,

I've been absent from the forum the last few months because I've been busy builidng a house! The painters are almost done so it's time to bite the bullet and order my light switches. After all the options I looked at and used in my current home as a testbed, I decided to go with Insteon.

I don't want this thread to be yet another Insteon vs. UPB vs. Z-Wave war ... but since I've been absent from the forum, have there been any earthshattering developments in the Insteon world I need to be aware of before aI drop $7K on switches?

You may want to spend some time reading about the number of Insteon vs Z-Wave vs UPB problems before dropping that kind of cash.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I would actually buy a few of each and test them before spending that kind of money myself. Of course this does take time, but man, what would happen if you made the wrong choice?

 

[RandyKnight]

Search my threads on the topic and you'll see I've spent a TON of time and money on researching this in my current home. And my account at AO proves it.

I actually had my current home half and half UPB and Insteon at one point, all controlled by Elk M1 and HomeSeer. So while I may not be an old hand like many of you, I'm not exactly the typical newbie drawn in by my SmartHome catalog either.

The pros and cons of each technology have been discussed to death ... that's not my point here. My point is "for those who do have / like Insteon, is there anything new I should be aware of".

For the record the reason I went with Insteon over UPB is primarily due to the UPB delay issue. Cost was a factor as well but if it weren't for the delay, I'd probably have ponied up the extra $ for UPB.

And like I said, I had about 25 UPB switches in my house for about 6 months so please don't float out the "the delay is hardly noticeable" card. For us, it was a significant annoyance. That may not be true for everyone.

As far as Z-Wave is concerned, I spent a fair amount of time checking out Z-Wave at EHX and came away unimpressed. That said, Z-Wave is one that I haven't had in "production" so if anybody has a compelling Z-Wave argument, I'm all ears. Wait, didn't I just say I had made my decsion?

Seriously, I have to have the switches to the electrician next Thursday.

Thanks to all for your input.

 

[ChrisWalker]

Randy,

Just curious: Z-Wave has designer switches as well as low-priced retail ones, a mesh-networked wireless system, and support from major manufacturers (including shipping switches from Intermatic, Leviton, and Monster today).

What made you come away unimpressed?

Chris

 

[KenM]

Not to be a spoiler, but...

I have heard some horror stories about INSTEON randomly switching on after a power glitch.

If it is not a vacation house, I'm guessing you are ok.

Arriving at your 'once a year' vacation house and finding every light in the place on can be a downer. I have tried to help out one person with this problem with custom timer software that sends an 'off' signal (his idea, I suggested Z-Wave) several times a day. I guess he can afford the lighting bill.

Ken

edit added:

I got the part about you not wanting this thread to be a competition war.
Some things just need to be general knowledge though.

This is only my 2 cents, by the way, I heard that a penny is now worth almost five cents, my ten cents? No.
k

 

[Xpendable]

The latest development is that they are going to be selling a Power Line Modem. This is a device that will replace the PLC. As we all know the PLC has been plaqued with problems related to the "SDM" software that controls the PLC. Well they are doing away with the SDM in the PLM which means all control of insteon devices will be handled by the application driving it. I know Homeseer has a plugin that is just about ready for this device, I don't know about any other applications. The new device is supposed to be faster and more reliable. More Info Here

The PLM is not meant to be a replacement for the PLC. The PLM is intended for entirely different hardware applications where interfacing is needed with non-desktop computer equipment. The EZIO8SA from SimpleHomeNet is a good example. That device depends on a PLM to work.

You could use the PLM on a desktop computer, but... there are caveats:

Software must be specifically written to interface with the PLM directly. The PLM can't be shared between multiple software applications on the same computer at the same time like the PLC can. At least not without somebody writing a custom software solution to share the PLM. Essentially you'd have to write your own version of the SDM, and people would have to write their software to specifically use your interface instead of writing code to directly access the PLM through the serial port. Also, the PLM has a smaller link database than the PLC. That means you may not be able to link everything in your house to a single PLM.

Despite what you may have heard, the PLM is unfortunately not any faster than the PLC. It's every bit as slow. I know, because I have worked with 2 different revisions of the PLM. You actually have to add a 10 ms delay between each byte you send the PLM, or transmission will fail. It's really annoying as a software developer to have to implement software flow control to only send 1 byte of data every 10 ms, but that's the limitation we are given with the PLM.

The upside to the PLM is it is more stable. I have yet to crash the PLM by flooding it with too much data or sending too many commands in a short period of time. Granted it won't handle more than 2.2 commands per second (it just ignores everything above that), but at least it doesn't crash like the PLC eventually does.

 

[Oman]

The PLC was designed as a generic Insteon interface. The PLM was designed as a lower-level interface for hardware manufacturers.

Most of the things that SmartHome considers to be benefits for the PLC are actually disadvantages when talking about 24/7 automation. Instead think of a full-time automation product (like HomeSeer) as hardware. You don't want random applications writing modified firmware (technically SALad) into your controller. You don't want other applications sending commands to the PLC while you are in time-critical communication sections. You don't want to talk to an Interop library that talks to COM that talks to serial that talks to SALad that talks to firmware that talks to Insteon.

As far as the 10ms delay between bytes being sent to the PLM go - it is worse with the PLC (and the issue is now gone with the PLM). The turnaround time when dealing directly with the PLM is about 50% lower than with the PLC/SDM solution. Total uptime is significantly higher.


Jon

 

[BLH]

I was told in the SDK Forums. That the PLM was not going to be sold to the general public only developers and if I want one call my Salesman.

 

[az1324]

The main reasons I went with Insteon were the price of icons (which was 19.99 at the time) and the affordable development kit. Now that icons are up to 29.99, I might think twice.

As far as what you need to know, definitely read the CES thread. There are some nice things coming out for Insteon. As more 3rd party products emerge, it will get more attractive. Remember that Insteon has a wireless side, too. Also note that the main reason a lot of new products haven't hit the market yet was due to a delay from Smartlabs in shipping chips. So there could be quite a flood once that gets going.

And no matter what you pick for your switches, there will always be a way to interface to other protocols such as a PC so you won't be completely trapped by any one standard.

 

[KenM]

for the availability of the PLM, I got the same info as BLH

Same here,

How is that for a case of shooting one self in the foot?

K

edit added updated info

 

[Digger]

I was told in the SDK Forums. That the PLM was not going to be sold to the general public only developers and if I want one call my Salesman

Unbelieveable. Enough Said.

 

[Xpendable]

As far as the 10ms delay between bytes being sent to the PLM go - it is worse with the PLC (and the issue is now gone with the PLM). The turnaround time when dealing directly with the PLM is about 50% lower than with the PLC/SDM solution. Total uptime is significantly higher.
Jon

I did comparative stress tests with 2 different PLC's & 2 different PLM's. The PLM was not even the slightest bit faster than the PLC (even with the PLC's added layer of the SDM). You would think that there would be a big difference in performance becaused of the added layer of the SDM, but that's actually not what I saw. Unfortunately, I believe the real bottleneck is either the actual chip inside the PLM & PLC, or the programming of the chip. It's slow enough that the added layer of the SDM really doesn't seem to make any difference. At least that's what I got from my own tests. Hence the reason I decided not to add support for the PLM in LightShowMaster.

I do agree that stability is much improved in the PLM.

 

[Madcodger]

I have 70+ Insteon switches and have had a number of occasions to complain. Lately, however, things have been fine. I still have a few switches with the bad springs that I have to get around to returning, but nothing that has shipped since early winter has had a problem. Just ask Martin to be sure he sends you the latest stuff in stock, to avoid the batches with the spring problems.

As for the availability of the PLM, I'm betting they aren't sending it out to everyone yet, but can't imagine that they won't be selling it to the general public within a few weeks. There just hasn't been any way to use one unless you ARE a developer, I think. Jon's HomeSeer plugin will solve that for many of us, and I plan to switch to the PLM once the plugin is ready. It will be nice to say goodbye to the SDM.

Joe