Insteon + ELK reliability

[MrGibbage]

So, I have been using my Elk to control a pretty small insteon network (ten lights) for about six months. Most of the time, it works perfectly. However, sometimes I have to press my "all lights off" group button two or more times to get all of the lights to turn off. Is there anything I can do to to increase the reliability? I have one set of the SignalInc RF's installed. I would say that at least two or three times a week I have to press the "All Lights Off" button more than once (generally, I only need to press the button once a day--when I go to bed).

Sheesh, I sound lazy

Skip

 

[mtwalsh367]

Have you tried a software package such as Powerhome that will tell you what your communication status is for each of your devices. When I started using Powerhome I discovered I had overall good communications but there were a few devices that were a bit weak and had many hops to get to them. I was able to bring my communication up to nearly 100% pretty easiy by playing around with the signallinc locations and I also reduced my hop count for many of my devices by just moving my Insteon PLC to the opposite phase of my wiring (I actually moved the circuit breaker in the fuse box down one notch to do this after).

I also more recently added 3 filterlincs and this took care a few remaining weak signals. I needed one on a dehumidifier becuase when it was on it just killed my Insteon signal. Also, I added one to each of 2 UPS devices I use for my PC and my Elk/Communication cabinet.

You might try to play around with signallinc locations or try to figure out what is consistently on when you experience problems. This may help you resolve the issue.

 

[Digger]

No, INSTEON devices are not as susceptible to line noise as X10. INSTEON messages are broadcast on a different frequency on the powerline and with every device being a repeater the network gets stronger as you add more

According to SH (see quote above) Insteon is not supposed to be affected by line noise If you call tech support some say yes and some say no. I personally have problems from CFL bulbs. I cant get switches 6 feet from each other on the same circuit to link. Also reliability is poor at night when the CFL's are turned on.

I think that they really are affected by noise but SH presumed that they would be immune and found out at a later date that they had similar problems to X-10.

 

[johnnynine]

According to SH (see quote above) Insteon is not supposed to be affected by line noise If you call tech support some say yes and some say no.

I had a noisy computer power supply that just killed Insteon communication... nothing would get through the power line. Smarthome suggested I buy a FilterLinc, which I did and that helped a lot around that particular computer.

 

[fitzpatri8]

No, INSTEON devices are not as susceptible to line noise as X10. INSTEON messages are broadcast on a different frequency on the powerline and with every device being a repeater the network gets stronger as you add more

According to SH (see quote above) Insteon is not supposed to be affected by line noise If you call tech support some say yes and some say no. I personally have problems from CFL bulbs. I cant get switches 6 feet from each other on the same circuit to link. Also reliability is poor at night when the CFL's are turned on.

I think that they really are affected by noise but SH presumed that they would be immune and found out at a later date that they had similar problems to X-10.

FWIW, there's a huge difference between saying something is "not as susceptible" and saying it is totally immune.

In my experience, Insteon devices are more resilient than x10 in the face of noise for a few reasons, including that each unit is a mesh repeater (making for a stronger overall signal) and that the 2-way signal protocol causes devices to auto-retry signals that don't generate an acknowledgment (may be helpful if the noise is cyclic or intermittent). The mesh repeaters maintain signal strength house-wide and allow Insteon devices to, in effect, out-shout low levels of powerline noise and out-broadcast devices that would totally swallow an x10 signal.

IMHO, compatibility with CFL bulbs really depends on *which* CFLs you use. I've experimented with a few that just killed powerline signals, but have been able to swap them all out for units that peacefully co-exist with my Insteon gear. All my basement, utility room and bathroom light fixtures now use CFLs, none of them isolated by signal filters, and my Insteon reliability is 100%. It just depends on how "automation friendly" the manufacturer designs and builds the bulb's ballast. The same goes for some devices with switching power supplies.

There's really no way to build a device that shares a communications medium that is totally immune from interference, unless you give products the technology to zap noise generators with a surge big enough to kill them dead. No way. Fortunately, selective device replacement with more compatible CFL or switching power supply units, or isolating the noisy loads using noise filters can normally fix problems without resorting to appliance-on-appliance violence.

Tom

 

[Digger]

Tom,

Agreed Mike did not say "immune" but some of their advertising back them kind of did.

When you cant link 2 devices 6 feet from each other on the same circuit and there are a total of 6 devices on that circuit all within 10 feet or so of each other (total end to end) then to me that is not very practical. That circuit has 3 light fixtures (all with CFL's), my alarm panel, cable modem, router, PLC and 5 Icon switches (one 3 way circuit and a two single swichs lights) and of course the PLC.

With all of those "repeaters" in the circuit you would think you could get 6 feet.

I think I expected to much from Insteon. They do make neat local control switches (I like the little click of the relays).

 

[fitzpatri8]

When you cant link 2 devices 6 feet from each other on the same circuit and there are a total of 6 devices on that circuit all within 10 feet or so of each other (total end to end) then to me that is not very practical. That circuit has 3 light fixtures (all with CFL's), my alarm panel, cable modem, router, PLC and 5 Icon switches (one 3 way circuit and a two single swichs lights) and of course the PLC.

With all of those "repeaters" in the circuit you would think you could get 6 feet.

Kind of depends on how loud and oppressive the noise is. A repeater can only repeat something it can hear in the first place. Ever try to talk to someone right next to you at a rock concert?

Hey Skip, do check out the trial version of PowerHome. The network diagnostics look like they'd be helpful in sorting out your interference issue.

 

[MrGibbage]

I've got no CFLs in the house. Just a few tube-type, and they are rarely on. I'm am quite certain that they are not the cause of the inconsistencies. I have used PH, but only to manage my network, not to diagnose the handshaking and device talking. I will look into that. I have noticed that the majority of the time, if any light fails, it's the same one. My foyer light is by far the most likely light to not turn off. In fact, until this morning, I think it was the only light to not turn off. This morning when I got up, I saw that my family room light was still on at the same level as when I went to bed, so I know it wasn't turned off. But I think this was the first time. My foyer is close to my study, where I have four computers running 24/7. I wonder if it is the computer power supplies????

Skip

 

[jeffx]

When the ELK is sending the group command, how many hops is it specifying? If it's not specifying enough hops, then the insteon grid network won't be fully taken advantage of.

I have not set up an elk with Insteon yet, but I did just do my first Elk installation a few weeks ago and will be heading back to install the Insteon portion of the setup this weekend.

 

[MrGibbage]

How can I find out the number of hops?