Interesting ICON ApplianceLinc Observation

eufreka

Active Member
Well, I just hooked up my first ICON ApplianceLinc, and noticed something I did not expect (although maybe I should have)...

When you send an "off," the unit still maintains some type of electrical pulse on the plug...

I hooked it up to a webcam that I want to turn on and off according to a schedule.

Then I noticed that when it turned off (on schedule), the lights on the webcam continue to "pulse" on/ off on a continuous basis.

Is that something normal that is necessary for local control? (I thought you exercised local control by pushing the button on the side; and thus see no reason there should be electricity on the controlled plug when it is "OFF."
 

GLT

Member
"Is that something normal that is necessary for local control? "

Sure sounds like it. I mean, if it totally kills the load, how would it know if there was a change?

On SH's X-10 appliancelincs, you can turn off local control by setting the address followed by an "off" command.

Did you try that?

Also please let us know if it loses it address in a power fluctuation like the X-10 ones do (did?). They were quietier, much bigger, and not near as dependable as the X-10 code wheel ones.

GLT

OT Note: There is a "new to me" way of locking out all changes to the programming of various "lincs" of X-10 modules which is in the manuals requiring the sending of " M16 O16 P16 N16 M16". Don't know if that stops the random resets to A1.
 

upstatemike

Senior Member
GLT said:
On SH's X-10 appliancelincs, you can turn off local control by setting the address followed by an "off" command.
When you do this you are not disconnecting the local control circuitry, you are just telling the module to ignore it. The power that trickles through the module to detect operation of a local switch is still there and if you have a load that reacts badly to that power trickle it will still have problems whether you disable the local control logic or not.

I have always felt local control caused far too many problems to be worth it. I think only a small percentage of people actually use it and they could just as easily set a small controller next to the lamp they want to control locally as use this feature.

Right now the only solution is to take an ICON relay switch and cut up an extentsion cord to make a true applianceLinc. I use a white waterproof box to mount it in (because I think it looks better) but you can use any single gang box.
 

GLT

Member
I have always felt local control caused far too many problems to be worth it. I think only a small percentage of people actually use it and they could just as easily set a small controller next to the lamp they want to control locally as use this feature. [/quote]
Agreed.

Now I can go back to sleep since I have learned my one thing for the day!

Thanks,

GLT
 

elcano

Active Member
Since was never interested in X10, I never understood the Smarthome several ^#@Linc products. I always thought that local control was a button in the Linc device (ApplianceLinc, in this case).

Now I see that the Linc in some way measures current to determine if it is ON or OFF, but I still have a question. How do you remotely turn ON a device, if it is physically OFF at the appliance switch?
 

eufreka

Active Member
elcano said:
...but I still have a question. How do you remotely turn ON a device, if it is physically OFF at the appliance switch?
You cannot.

Clearly "local control" should be a configurable option. Or a separate (even less expensive :) ) module should be available that doesn't include the additional circuitry.
 

Guy Lavoie

Active Member
elcano said:
Since was never interested in X10, I never understood the Smarthome several ^#@Linc products. I always thought that local control was a button in the Linc device (ApplianceLinc, in this case).

Now I see that the Linc in some way measures current to determine if it is ON or OFF, but I still have a question. How do you remotely turn ON a device, if it is physically OFF at the appliance switch?
You can't, obviously.

The idea with local control is if the module is off and you would like to turn on the lamp (or whatever) locally. So you turn the device's switch off and then back on. The module senses the transition from not drawing any current to drawing the sensing current and then responds by turning itself on. This only works for turning a module on. It would also be handy if additionnal logic in the module would also sense the same on-off-on sequence when it it already on in order to now turn itself off, allowing remote control again (because the load's power switch is left in the On position).
 

eufreka

Active Member
upstatemike said:
.... Right now the only solution is to take an ICON relay switch and cut up an extentsion cord to make a true applianceLinc. I use a white waterproof box to mount it in (because I think it looks better) but you can use any single gang box.
Got any pictures? Or part numbers. I understand what you are saying but I cannot visualize the parts. It would need to be an enclosure (like outdoor switch covers), to avoid accidental triggering of the switch paddle...wouldn't it?

EDIT (additional thought)
Although I guess you could just glue the switch paddle, if you didn't need the switch to work locally.
 

BLH

Active Member
Yes and the Icon/Insteon ApplianceLinc V2s have 4x the local current as the older X10 ApplianceLincs. Also use care if your load has a ballast like a flourescent light. I and others have blown the module out with inductive spikes.
I have a 15 watt under counter light thet is fine with the older X10 ApplianceLincs and baulks on the newer unit and I blwe two of them with it. One Icon and one Insteon version.
 

ginigma

Active Member
eufreka said:
Got any pictures? Or part numbers. I understand what you are saying but I cannot visualize the parts. It would need to be an enclosure (like outdoor switch covers), to avoid accidental triggering of the switch paddle...wouldn't it?
For what it's worth, I just put a KeypadLinc in this Tabletop Pedestal Enclosure from AutomatedOutlet. The fit & finish looks great and could probably be used for your application.
 

eufreka

Active Member
ginigma said:
eufreka said:
Got any pictures? Or part numbers. I understand what you are saying but I cannot visualize the parts. It would need to be an enclosure (like outdoor switch covers), to avoid accidental triggering of the switch paddle...wouldn't it?
For what it's worth, I just put a KeypadLinc in this Tabletop Pedestal Enclosure from AutomatedOutlet. The fit & finish looks great and could probably be used for your application.
Yes I have seen that, and will probably buy a few--looks like a more attractive solution (though much more expensive!!!) for bedside controllers...

Definitely overkill for an extension cord solution, however...maybe I can get by Lowes/HomeDepot this weekend for a few minutes and poke around....
 

elcano

Active Member
Guy Lavoie said:
It would also be handy if additionnal logic in the module would also sense the same on-off-on sequence when it it already on in order to now turn itself off, allowing remote control again (because the load's power switch is left in the On position).
I was expecting this to be the existing behaviour.

What it is odd is that I could not find an explanation on how to use an ApplianceLinc in the SmartHome page. They just describe the load (resistive), they mention local control but not how it works. I'm used to better documentation from them. Actually the Quick Start Manual does not explain anything about Local Control. And the regular manual explains how to enable/disable it, talks about it in various contexts, but not how to use it.

May be they assume that the potential consumers already know it.

You know Guy, you might license them the documentation that you wrote here. It is very good. :)
 

AutomatedOutlet

Senior Member
Yeah, I have two Insteon KeypadLincs installed in them too - one white and one black. They look nice. One word of caution, the older X10 only KeypadLincs won't fit in those housings but the Insteon ones do.
 

WayneW

Senior Member
elcano said:
May be they assume that the potential consumers already know it.

You know Guy, you might license them the documentation that you wrote here. It is very good. :)
X-10 probably has the copyright on the local control documentation from 30 years ago. It is an old feature. :) IMHO, it is a worthless feature. It just encourages guests to the house to futz with things and then turn them off manually, which blows the whole automation scheme. Whenever I can, I prevent local control from being an option by doing things like taking the knob off of a table lamp, etc (assuming the knob is hidden under the shade and nobody would notice).
 

Herdfan

Active Member
WayneW said:
It just encourages guests to the house to futz with things and then turn them off manually,
Yes! :)

My idiot nephews were here over X-mas and over 3 days could not learn that the little "Lamps" button turned them off.
 
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