Large gap security sensors

[mdonovan]

I'm using these sensors with my Elk:
 
http://www.amazon.com/MICRO-DOOR-WINDOW-SENSOR-WHITE/dp/B00070LZ4I
 
I have a couple doors that I can't get the 2 parts very close, and sometimes they don't recognize the door is closed. Is there any way to get maybe a stronger magnet to make up for the large gap?
 
I also have a couple sensors that keep losing supervision and I get a lost transmitter error on the keypads. I replaced the battery but they still keep doing it. Is it time to replace them?
 
Matt

 

[Del91574]

The magnet isn't going to overcome a design/installation issue. Look for a different style magnet and locate closer.

 

[newalarm]

Or fabricate a little bracket to get magnet to the designed spec gap tolerance. Do you know what the tolerance is on the gap?

 

[mdonovan]

I do have the gap information somewhere, although I'm not sure where it is. I can cut out the door trim on some of the doors, but I really wanted to avoid that. I'm still studying it to see what I can come up with. If all else fails I'll cut the trim.
 
Matt

 

[newalarm]

might want to post some pictures...

 

[Bubbba]

I' recently installed two of those senors.  They are fairly forgiving with respect to gap size.  When I've had problems geting it to "sense" when the door is closed, it (as I recall) had to do with the correct alignment of the magnet to the sensor (I was trying to adjust them so that they sensed when the door was closed - but not so close that you could open the door enough to insert another magnet and defeat the sensor).  I achieved the greatest distance when  the arrow on the magnet aligned correctly to the sensitive part of the reed.  You may want to perform some separate tests.  Once I did this it worked.  .....But then I imagine you've already tried something similar.

 

[Del91574]

Don't forget, an old way we used to do RF sensors where the mag couldn't be installed close enough, if your molding has enough of a profile, you can remove the mag from the housing, drill the trim and tap the mag into place and have it be proud of the trim. You just need to pay attention to the reed inside the transmitter and the sweet spot.

 

[Bubbba]

" If all else fails I'll cut the trim."

I was just thinking - most people just place the magnet on top of the trim.  You probably do want to post some pictures as the previous commentor suggested.

 

[Bubbba]

" If all else fails I'll cut the trim."

I was just thinking - most people just place the magnet on top of the trim.  You probably do want to post some pictures as the previous commentor suggested.

 

[mdonovan]

Here are pics of the two worst offenders. And while it may look like they could be a bit closer in reality they are as close as I could get them without them being really loose on the trim or getting hit by the door when it's opened or closed. I considered swapping the large and small parts, but that would not work either.

 

[gatchel]

A small aluminum plate could be used to raise the magnet off of the door to match the level of the reed switch. This would also allow you to overhang the edge of the door a bit to get the magnet closer. Mount the magnet to the custom made piece of aluminum then mount the aluminum plate to the door(s). On the left pic, you can remount the reed side a little bit to the right to possibly overcome the little bit of distance you need.

 

[IndyMike]

The door in the right hand photo looks like a steel entry door (can't tell about the left photo).  A steel door will effectively shunt your magnet.  Spacing the magnet away from the door will help.  Reversing the sensor and the magnet will help more (move the magnet to the trim side).
 
It also looks like you could move the magnet/sensor to the top of the door (horizontal) and cut down the gap. 

 

[tmbrown97]

I don't know if your sensor accepts external contacts, but that'd be my fix to all this - drill a recessed contact into the door - one meant for steel doors - mount the transmitter directly above the trim, and fish the wire to the transmitter...  It'd be more work, but it'd look 100% better and be a cleaner fix all around IMO.  All these hassles just don't seem worth it and it'll look off.

 

[IndyMike]

I don't know if your sensor accepts external contacts, but that'd be my fix to all this - drill a recessed contact into the door - one meant for steel doors - mount the transmitter directly above the trim, and fish the wire to the transmitter...  It'd be more work, but it'd look 100% better and be a cleaner fix all around IMO.  All these hassles just don't seem worth it and it'll look off.

Now that's a solution.  There are recessed magnets specifically designed for recessing in steel doors.  They can overcome the "shunting" of the metal door itself.
 
The doors in the left photo look like double swingers.  If either door can open independently (rare, but I've seen them) a magnet/contact set could be used on each door, wired in series to the sensor.

 

[mdonovan]

The doors on the left are french doors. Either one can open, but in reality I only use the one door. I do think on the french doors I could move the small part over a tad, which may help. These doors I have to slam for the sensor to function. Closing them normally doesn't work. This is because when they are closed the door sticks out a bit  and doesn't allow the magnet to align properly.
 
And yes, the one on the right is a steel entry door. It is a back garage door which was kicked in when my house was broken in to, so I consider this door very important to have the sensor working properly.
 
I will consider drilling into the door if that will give me reliable operation. If anyone has any suggestions for compatible sensors that can be mounted into the door I would be interested in seeing them.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I do appreciate them.
 
Matt