M1 zones best practices

[RandyKnight]

So now that I've figured out how to set up all my sensors on the bench (door and window, motions, glassbreak, and smokes), I need to plan out my zones. I have a large installation and will need multiple zone expanders. I'm trying to figure out what to do as separate zones and what to put in series. While I recognize this is a personal preference thing I imagine there are some best practices I should be aware of?

The home is a 5300sf two story with the following sensors to configure:

Motions: 33
These are a no-brainer to me as individual zones since they will primariloy be used for lighting control. With this many I will need secondary power besides the VAUX correct? What is typically done for that? Just add a 12V transformer to my can and split the load betwen that and the M1 VAUX? If that's the case I'm thinking I would put the ones I care about for security on the M1 so they'd be battery backed up and the rest on a separate transformer.

Smokes: 11
Wondering about this one. What is typical? Separate zones for each seems like overkill but all on one doesn's seem right either. Wouldn't you want to know where the fire/smoke is at? Maybe a combination approach, grouping together smokes from the same area of the house? Also, my smokes say they draw 75mA of current so I should be okay putting all 11 on the M1's SAUX correct?

Doors and Windows:
For the main hourse, there are 6 exterior doors, 2 garage doors and numerous windows. The windows are each homerun for maximum flexibilty but I'd think I'd want to put the windows in the same room together on a zone. The question is should there be more than that. Do you care if you know which room has windows open, or just that one is open?

Glassbreaks: There are 7 of these. Same question as above.

My general feeling is that M1 zones are relatively cheap so it seems like the more zones the better in terms of troubleshooting, flexibility ,etc. But that may be simplistic. What if anything am I missing in that?

BTW, be prepard to be inundated with Elk question over the next several days.

 

[IVB]

I had started this thread back in the day

I have two basic thoughts:

1) If you don't mind zone explosion, run every single sensor to a seperate zone so you can tell which window is open. Even if it costs you another 2 zonecards, $150 isn't that much compared to the PITA of re-running later if you decide you do want to know each window seperately.

2) Contemplate disaster recovery, aka "What if a zone expander fails". I've had 2 instances of zonecards failing, one was a hardware death, one was a software/config issue as I was mucking with the Elk in other areas and something got confused. But in either case, I didn't have the time to deal with a zonecard failure for a few days. I split up my zonecards into "mission critical - security", "mission critical - safety", "medium priority". Medium priority is those sensors that could be disabled without a huge ramification to home security. Gives you a built-in "backup" zone sensor without having to have one sitting on the shelf.

 

[rfdesq]

I am from the old school of homerun everything. I am not a fan of daisy chaining wires especially when the M1 has 208 zones. I don't use less than 22/4 wire for each zone. This gives me 2 extra wires per non powered zone. I would be very careful about running any extra power supply without a battery backup. Without battery backup those PIR's and GB's are going to be useless or may false in a power outage. I prefer the ELK power supply backups because they have plenty of current and low voltage battery cutoff built in.

 

[Steve]

I don't use less than 22/4 wire for each zone. This gives me 2 extra wires per non powered zone.

What would you ever use the extra pair for in a typical single sensor window?

 

[jlehnert]

What would you ever use the extra pair for in a typical single sensor window?

When a sub puts a nail through the wire, you've got 2 additional chances.

 

[rfdesq]

When a sub puts a nail through the wire, you've got 2 additional chances.

Exactly, or when you decide to add something and the walls are closed up you have extra wires at every drop.

 

[jlehnert]

What would you ever use the extra pair for in a typical single sensor window?

When a sub puts a nail through the wire, you've got 2 additional chances.

Motions - Agree with Randy on the zones, and rfdesq on the power.

Smokes - I group by area. In most houses, that means by floor, but there has been a ranch or two that get "left wing", "rear wing", etc.

Doors - Individually

Windows - By room, unless it's a large room with a ton of windows.

My rule of thumb might be described as "be able to check everything in the zone in 60 seconds". For smokes, that means I should be able to physically find the one that's in alarm in under 60 seconds (and yes, if you see or smell smoke, screw the 60 seconds and EXIT!). You can easily walk to the 3-6 smokes in a floor in 50 seconds. For windows, assume you are getting ready to leave the house and the alarm says you have a window open. Enter room, trip on clothes/toys left on floor, get up, pull curtains away from window #1 and check, trip on cat, move curtains from window # 2, etc.

The "how many sensors to wire to a zone" is another one of those "pc vs mac" questions. You'll get as many opinions as the number of people you ask the question to. You'll probably find the biggest challenge is figuring out how to describe the zone in the limited number of characters displayed on the keypad. "Zone 33" doesn't help much, but then is "GRM RW 3W" (Great Room, Rear Wall, third window) much better?

 

[RandyKnight]

Thanks to all for the input. Looks like my thinking was on the right track anyway. In terms of the 24V power, what is the Elk part # for the battery backed up extra power supplies? And how many should I need. I also need to think about this for outputs as I have 24V automated ceiling registers and door strikes to power.

 

[rfdesq]

In terms of the 24V power, what is the Elk part # for the battery backed up extra power supplies?

This should point you in the right direction http://www.elkproducts.com/power.htm. As far as how many you need, that depends on your power requirements and how long you want your equipment to run in the event of a power failure. Also, the charging capability of the power supply.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Thanks to all for the input. Looks like my thinking was on the right track anyway. In terms of the 24V power, what is the Elk part # for the battery backed up extra power supplies? And how many should I need. I also need to think about this for outputs as I have 24V automated ceiling registers and door strikes to power.

Would you want your door stikes on UPS power? I'm not sure (asking the question, not trying to give advice). I was thinking of the scenario if power was cut off say during a fire, do the door strikes fail "open" if their power is removed?

 

[MBrew]

Would you want your door stikes on UPS power? I'm not sure (asking the question, not trying to give advice). I was thinking of the scenario if power was cut off say during a fire, do the door strikes fail "open" if their power is removed?

There are two types of strikes; Fail safe and fail secure. You can pick which way you want it to work. I'm pretty certain that most large jurisdictions would address it as a code issue.

Mike

 

[RandyKnight]

The door strikes I have can be configurd either way. My thought is to have them set up as fail safe. If we're gone for a longer term like vacation, etc. I would lock manual deadbolts in addition to the strikes.

But input is always welcome on that.

 

[electron]

Which door strikes did you get?

 

[RandyKnight]

Which door strikes did you get?

They're at the house so I'll have to look at them tomorrow for the model # but I believe they are Von Duprin. I got them from Martin of course.