M1G, Wireless heat detector, trouble indication on shaking

[Linwood]

I'm confused by something.
 
I have an M1G, and for one location have a wireless heat detector "connected" to it.  All other smoke/heats are wired.
 
This detector is near an attic access, and now twice when someone went up there, it emitted a trouble indication.  

The M1G shows trouble until you acknowledge the trouble, then it stops showing trouble.
 
I'm not sure what to make of this -- in particular how to fix it.  Does the fact it no longer shows trouble mean it is intermittent, reacting specifically to the event?  I am not using the tamper feature of the device, so not sure what else would emit a trouble signal momentarily only (e.g. if it lost battery contact I would think it would just go off line, and the trouble indication would be after the timeout -- the trouble indication is immediately on someone going into the attic). 
 
I've gone up and removed the device, reinstalled it, banged on it by hand - nothing new happens.  But then again, I'm not sure whether some timer in the M1G might mask that.  I  have not tried waiting a day or so and trying to bang on it manually; I will try that next.
 
Does someone have the details on how trouble works with one-direction RF devices like this?  You can't send a reset to the device, so what happens?   When I acknowledge the alarm, and nothing new happens, does that mean it is no longer sending trouble?   Or does the M1G ignore trouble after acknowledgement for some period? 
 
Any idea what sort of trouble this might be?  
 
The display/voice indication is clearly trouble, not alarm, by the way -- and Alarm Relay also gets a trouble, not alarm signal. 
 
I do have fresh batteries in it (after the first event I swapped the battery), and took everything down and apart and put it all back. 
 
Any thoughts as to cause?   The device is about 5' across the ceiling from the pull-down attic stairs, all in a garage.  It doesn't do it every time -- I've been up their dozens of times without setting it off.  BUt lately it has been about 2 times in maybe 4 times up there.
 
New detector?  Just assume this is bad? 

 

[ano]

I don't know your exact problem, but I will throw this out there. So one-way wireless sensors transmit an "I'm OK" signal maybe ever 50 minutes.  If the receiver doesn't receive these, it will assume a problem.  Could the metal ladder being down be blocking the signal from the sensor to the receiver?  In other words, is the ladder between the sensor and the receiver?  If its blocking the signal, that might be the problem.
 
Otherwise, many wireless smoke/heat sensors are mounted on a base with a magnet.  If the sensor is moved, the sensor will complain.  Maybe vibrations are triggering the problem. But my bet is the signal is being blocked.

 

[Linwood]

Well, the stairs are not metal they are wood, but more to the point the trouble signal is immediate as they are opened, it is not a case of opening and then a timeout running with no communication.
 
So I'm certain the issue is a provoked trouble, i.e. we are doing something that causes trouble.  What I'm less clear on is how to know if the trouble is clear.  Do such devices continue to report trouble (frequently?) so long as they are in a trouble state?   do they report once, then quit?  There's no way to reset them, so I assume when the trouble clears they just stop sending trouble (or do they start sending something else like I'm OK)? 
 
Let me put it this way:  I get a trouble alert, I acknowledge it on the M1G.  How do I know if the device is no longer in a trouble state?   How long do I wait with no trouble signal to feel it was "fixed" (at least for now)?

 

[ano]

Wireless devices typically only report "trouble" once. Technically they report it a series of times, but only one interval. When the trouble goes away, they report that. I don't have a M1G, but on the OMNI, it will say "XXX TRB" when you have trouble, and "XXXXX HAD TRB" when its cleared.

 

[Linwood]

Yeah, I am not getting anything like that.  It says "Trouble" until I enter a code into the M1G panel, then it just clears to "Ready".   So I'm GUESSING that means it sent trouble once, and either is, or later only sends "OK" signals. 
 
So continuing to GUESS if it sends trouble once, still has trouble, and hasn't sent an "OK" after, I will eventually time out and get a "no communications" trouble.  Which so far hasn't happened.
 
Sigh... I think it's about time to run a wire.  I hate wireless, generally, but one-way wireless is really a pain.  I did these because the run was a bit harder than others, and I was buying wireless for FOB's, so decided to try one smoke (well, heat) and one contact wireless.  The contact has been OK, but still... I like wires.

 

[ano]

I think the panel is just making sure you see the error. Mine says "HAD TBL xxx" just so I see it after its cleared. I got one last night for I'm guessing low battery because they tend to happen in the middle of the night.  I wouldn't overly worry about it if your panel is no longer complaining.  If the battery is good, I would just run a test on it, and if your alarm goes off, your O.K. But unfortunately you can easily test fixed temp sensors, but if they are rate-of-rise, you can test those, or if its a smoke alarm, they can be tested.

 

[Linwood]

I think to test I have to open it up (I guess I could try a heat gun pointed at it).  But it didn't go off over night due to any timeouts, so it must be sending OK's. 
 
It's just vibration sensitive I guess.  Which means I probably need to replace it, since it's a pain when the trouble goes off especially if my wife is the only one here.
 
Or it's getting toward winter (in Florida that means "possible to go into the attic to run wires") so I might just run another wire.  It's a LONG run, need to get up in three different areas with three accesses.  But still, I like wires.

 

[ano]

I think to test I have to open it up (I guess I could try a heat gun pointed at it).  But it didn't go off over night due to any timeouts, so it must be sending OK's. 
 
It's just vibration sensitive I guess.  Which means I probably need to replace it, since it's a pain when the trouble goes off especially if my wife is the only one here.
 
Or it's getting toward winter (in Florida that means "possible to go into the attic to run wires") so I might just run another wire.  It's a LONG run, need to get up in three different areas with three accesses.  But still, I like wires.

I have many wireless sensors and have never had a problem.  In fact if I look back, the wired sensors have been more troublesome, if wires get pinched or tugged. My problem would be using a wireless sensor in a hot attic, where the battery might not last long.  I'm in AZ and its probably even hotter in the attic than FL. I would only use wires there. Were just getting to the time of year when attic access is possible.  Those AC installers do it year-round. I'm sure glad I'm not an AC installer. ^_^
 
It will hit 85 today, but that hasn't stopped the radio stations from starting the 24 hour Christmas music today. :unsure:

 

[Linwood]

Just to put some closure...
 
I think I'm giving up on this one.  It went off again with a trouble alert, this time when no one was anywhere near it.  I have taken it down and disabled it in the panel.  The battery is new, there's no new RF equipment (or really any new equipment) near it, or between it and the M1G panel.  The nearby garage door RF contact (the only other RF contact I have) is working fine.
 
Intriguingly the nearby garage door remote is getting flakey as well.  So it's consistent with the idea something in that area is causing interference (I have no idea how close in frequency a garage door is with the RF heat sensor).  But there's nothing out there really.  House Wifi gear is far away, different direction from M1G panel, and none of it has changed in years.  There's really nothing in the garage that is running or even drawing power except an air conditioning air handler (and nothing "smart" on it), and a hot water heater.
 
So I assume the unit is simply bad, but I don't have a good way to debug it; if it is some RF interference, say from a neighbor, getting a new one will just renew the issues.
 
It's getting near cool weather down here.  I'm thinking of just running wires to it and the garage door contact (even though it works) and an extra in case I want to control the garage door itself.