MCE Questions

Mike

Senior Member
I put an MCE machine together last year using an older PC I had (P4 2.53GHZ 533FSB, 1GB RAM, Gigabyt 9600 Vid Card).

I have been real pleased, but every now and then the screen would blank and it would be like it was frozen. I'd reboot it and all would be fine. It did not happen too frequently so I did not prioritize it very high.

Well I have a little time off so I moved the machine upstairs where I could more easily test it. To do this I tried some 3d games and I loaded them on another machine as well so I could see the result (networked games).

What I was able to reproduce:

1. The screen would blank every now and then, and then after 10-15 seconds come back. I tried hitting keys on the keyboard but watching the 'player' from the other computer showed no change and neither did the text on that computer.

This made me wonder is it video or the cpu that is having a problem.

2. I did get it to go completely blank like I mentioned originally. The difference was that I would not see a mouse cursor, where on the above scenario (#1) I would still see that, just everything else black.

My question is, anyone have any ideas on troubleshooting? I was going to try and swap the video card and see if I can reproduce it. My hope is that it would not, only problem is I only have non MCE approved cards for this testing.

I suspected (we will see if this is true) that it is either the card or the CPU. I found only some strange informational messages in the event viewer under ACEEventLog. I discounted them originally but I am going to redo the tests and see if the blank-outs occur when these are written. These seem to be a category for the ATI graphics card which makes me suspect the video card as the culprit.

Assuming this is the case, anyone know if all 6x00 and 7x00 series nVidia cards are 'MCE' compatible? I could not find an update from the one I posted originally. If this is indeed the video card, I am going back to familiar territory in the form of nVidia cards.
 
I can not imagine that MCE would need a certain type of video card.

However, try leaving the side of the case off and testing. You may be having some overheating issues and need some better cooling. Also, see if you can go into the bios after the crash(reboot) and check the GPU temperature.
 
There definately is a short list of graphic cards, TV cards, Pointing devices and codecs that MCE application has to run with. Note I didn't say MCE OS. When you go to setup MCE app, it will barf when it doesn't see something it wants to see.

There is a list of certified hardware on Bill's (Microsoft) MCE website.
 
David,

Thank you. I have seen that list before, and even posted it here. Unfortunately it does not seem to list a lot of the newer cards (and nothing beyond a 6800). I wasn't sure if the list wasnt being updated like it was (possibly due to Vista).

http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=2441

On the MS link it lists nVidia's classes of cards that are 'approved' which made me wonder if the list was as specific as it was before, that list also did not include the 7x00 series which made me wonder if they were all approved. I originally tried a 4600 which would not work (way back).

My thinking was I can probably get more bang for my buck with the most recent series, but it does me no good if it is not compatible.
 
ph0n33z said:
I can not imagine that MCE would need a certain type of video card.

However, try leaving the side of the case off and testing. You may be having some overheating issues and need some better cooling. Also, see if you can go into the bios after the crash(reboot) and check the GPU temperature.
The thing is, it is not a crash, and not a reboot on its own. The screen just goes blank. I have to reset it manually. I will try to see if I can check temperatures, but I have a thermaltake aluminum case with multiple fans (have to check may be as many as 5) so I doubt it is heat but I will confirm that.
 
OK, I have an older Ti-4600 card in now and I'm testing it.

If this seems to imply the card I have is the culprit, I'm going to test the 6800 I have in another machine in the MCE machine in the hopes that it will work, and then get what I want for that other machine.

The card I am testing that may have had these issues (to be determined) is a Gigabyte GV-R96X128D. An ominous sign was found when I pulled the card: In large white lettering 'REV: 1.0'
 
I assume you have an ATI 9600 based card? That's what I have in my MCE system, and there are specific MCE drivers available for newer ATI cards, so if you haven't tried those, then I would give it a shot.

Once in a blue moon, my screen will go blank as well, but simply hitting the arrow up or down on my MCE remote seems to restore the image, so I doubt that is the problem. Have you checked the event log?
 
I did find the updated drivers initially. I forget the specific issues I was seeing but whatever they were that helped resolve that. I do not think the arrow key solves the problem, but I will check that if I reproduce it again.

I spent awhile with a new video card and got none of the same issues. I spent 90 minutes with no issues, whereas before I could see the issue at least (roughly) once every ten minutes.

I am leaning towards putting the 6800 I have in the other system and seeing if the issue goes away.

There are a lot of wierd messages in the ATI based event log category but nothing in the normal areas. While they ATI ones are listed as informational, the errors seem to be items that should not be occuring (which is why I seem to think it is the card).

I'll post some of the examples from the event log tomorrow.
 
I've had very similar issues. I've only had to reboot a couple of times, but it blanks pretty often and freezes for several seconds periodically. Often, the short freeze will come when I send two or three commands real quick. I've used a 9600XT, 9800Pro and an X700 with it and they are all the same. Two machines, both very respectable in thier configutation. One machine is worse than the other, but they both do it. I beat my head against a wall with it for two to three days and gave up. Tried different drivers etc.

I use BTV for recording TV and pretty much only use MCE for music. I can't wait to loose it. I'm working on CQC now.
 
If it helps, it looks like all the cards you used were ATI based chips. From my limited testing so far using nVidia gear, it seems to have stopped the issue. I'm putting in a 6800 I had in another machine that is approved and will run some more extensive tests, but from the couple hours of testing I did, it seems to be an ATI issue.

I'm going to run with the other card for awhile and see if it repeats (it was not that frequent except when I did video game testing so it may take awhile to be conclusive). If it goes away I am dropping the ATI card and will refrain from trying them again in the future (it seems all of my limited experiences with ATI hardware have been negative).

I was also planning on integrating CQC or an equivalent at some point as well, but I like the MCE interface. I have not looked at the alternatives however so my experience is rather limited.
 
I can't recall clearly what model, but I know I did have an ATI card in my MCE machine when I first was building it. The screen on that would go black, just as described in the above posts. I never did find the problem. Shortly after installing the system, I realized that I wanted to play high-end games on the on the big screen TV and the ATI was a low end card. I upgraded the card, to a Nvidia GeForce 6600, and have not had the problem since.

I am not certain if ATI is the cause, but I know I had about the same circumstances when it was happening to me.
 
It is possible that my judgement against ati is in haste. However, I have not had the clean experience I am used to with nvidia cards and drivers. There were a few issues I had to work through at the beginning as well that appeared driver related.

On the bright side, the 6800 card I had in another machine is MCE 'rated' so I just got an upgrade for my primary machine. I went with a 6800 GS, which has some nice performance since I haven't built a PCIe machine yet.

I am glad that it was an inexpensive card (~$80) so I don't mind as much putting it in the parts bin (too much in the bin atm...) to solve this issue. At least now I can tell the wife why it was happening and that is should be solved (wasn't helping with my Tivo -> Media Center transition).
 
Mike Wrote:
(wasn't helping with my Tivo -> Media Center transition

Mike, give it some time... I think you both will be happy with the switch.

DISCLAIMER: I, fisrt off, have to say that I thought that I would be the VERY last person to ever say this.... So don't flame mw too badly here. I ABSOLUTELY loved my Tivo! It changed the way that I watched TV from the day I hooked it up.

I recently moved, and I had an offer for cable television (Had a Direct TV Tivo where I used to live) that was too good to pass up. I held off on transfering the Direct TV service for a bit, and switched back to cable. This being the case, my Satellite Tivo receiver is sitting on the shelf, and it really gave me a chance to give Media Center a good workout.

[NOTE: MCE can work with a satellite Set-Top-Box with an IR blaster. However, 2 set-top-boxes would be required to watch one show/record another...or record 2 shows while watching a recorded one]

Over the past 2 months, I can't beleive how much more that I have learned to like the MCE PVR -vs- my Tivo. (again, I NEVER thought I would say this!!!!) I have a wireless keyboard, and that makes searching the Tivo MUCH easier, on the Tivo it was like text messaging on a cell phone hehehe. Sure that is a small part, but there is so much more!

With the MCE machine, I have 250 gigs of storage, without having to hack appart the Tivo to upgrade it from its 40 gigs. MCE also give me complete control of my 45 Gigs of MP3's. (Album art, playlists, searching ect).

I also installed an MCE web browser plugin, and am able to completely control Home Seer through the MCE interface, plus browse any page on the net.

The movie search also is bar none! I have quite a few pay channels, plus all the regular channels. If I go into search, and choose movies, you can pick Action, Comedy ect... similar to the Tivo. Where MCE differs, is it displays the movies by DVD cover/album art. You can sort the movies by "Star Rating" meaning the good stuff is at the top of the list. Click on a cover, and choose record. I must have like 20 movies set to record in the next 2 weeks or so. Many are on pay channels, commercial free. The ones on regular TV, with commercials, are no problem, as the FF button skips forward 30 seconds with each press. On average a good 5-8 click puts you right back to the movie after the commercials. You can do this on Tivo with a hack, but after that hack is activated, you lose the normal Fast Forward feature.

The partnership with MS and VH1 and MTV also is a major plus. I am able to watch just about any music video on the planet on demand through the MCE interface over my DSL connection. Sure you could download/capture your favorite music videos and store them locally.... but with thousands and thousands on demand, I see no need for that any longer.

All of my personal photo's are stored on that machine, catagorized in folders and syncronized with my main PC. I have access to all of them on the big screen at the push of a few remote control buttons, either individually, or as a slide show with music.

I have around 20 Internet radio stations programmed in, and they are also just a few button presses away, and commercial free.

When the phone rings, it mutes/pauses and shows the caller id. No scripting, IR senders ect. it eliviates many of the HS scripts, girder commands ect I used to use to do the same thing.

On top of that, close the media center interface and it is a full blown computer on the big screen in the living room, I have quite a few games I play through it with wireless PC controllers, (Quake 4 multiplayer comes to mind) as well as the MCE Mame interface that gives me access to hundreds and hundreds of arcade games...

With WebGuide3 (Thanks to Electron for turning me onto this one) I can program shows to record from any web browser, as well as my cellphone,

With my Xbox 360 in the other room, I can control the MCE machine as if it were hooked to the same TV. (The 360 works as a Media Center Extender) I can watch live TV, recorded TV ect, while the MCE machine in the living room is playing something, or doing something differently entirely.

ALL of this in one small PC I built that is about the same size as my Tivo. Automation is about making things easier. The Tivo is great at recording TV, but MCE give me SOOOoo Much more from that same sized full blown PC.

The best part is all of this is FREE of subscription fee's. Sure Tivo was only $12 a month, but thats $144 a year, -vs- FREE with MCE.

Again, I am most certainly NOT a MS activest, and would normally say the opposite, but...... I prefer the MCE PVR I am using now so much more than my Tivo.

NOTE: The one feature that I absolutely HATE about MCE is if you are watching a program, and choose to record it, it starts recording at the moment you hit record. The Tivo would record the program from the beginning if you hit record (If it was within a half hour of the start of the program). This to me is the largest drawback to MCE over the Tivo recorder.

On the other hand, the buffer value on the MCE machine can be altered. (With an external plugin) I have it set to 3 hours. This way, if I turn on the TV towards the end of a program/movie that looks interesting, I can go all the way back to the beginning, and watch it, skipping the commercials as I go :(
 
I should have been clear, the transition was for my wife. We have two tivo's an typical series 2 and a pioneer dvd recorder. The series 2 is modulated throughout the house over coax, the pioneer is distributed using component. Like (apparently) many other Pioneer users, it reboots occasionally (I have replaced the hard drives, it is not that, from research on the internet it seems to be the power supply but I did not take it far enough to figure out how to fix that).

I also added a MCE machine with 1TB of storage. I love it and think it is the Tivo killer, the higher price of a computer will just put it out of reach for some not willing to spend that much or have something as 'complicated' in their living room. I feel it is only a matter of time.

Oh, my point above was that my wife still favors the 'bedroom tivo' as she calls it over coax since it is reliable and has 300+ hours of capacity on it. This black screen showing up occasionally didn't help with proving it's stability.

I put the 6800 I had in the machine today and MCE accepted it (it was on the approved list) so I am hoping that issue is resolved.

I think to really get her to switch I need to get the MCE accessible upstairs, which the Xbox 360 was looking good based on some recent comments that may allow no compromises (well limited) for movies/tv for a low price point.
 
JohnWPB said:
NOTE: The one feature that I absolutely HATE about MCE is if you are watching a program, and choose to record it, it starts recording at the moment you hit record. The Tivo would record the program from the beginning if you hit record (If it was within a half hour of the start of the program). This to me is the largest drawback to MCE over the Tivo recorder.

On the other hand, the buffer value on the MCE machine can be altered. (With an external plugin) I have it set to 3 hours. This way, if I turn on the TV towards the end of a program/movie that looks interesting, I can go all the way back to the beginning, and watch it, skipping the commercials as I go :D
I'm confused at what you are saying here. Does MCE buffer up to 3 hours? If so, what is the problem with recording from the beginning? Looks like a contradiction but I am probably not undertanding something.
 
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