More UPB problems with a UPS

B

Basildane

Member
I posted here years ago when I had severe UPB signal problems.  We traced the signal sucker to a UPS.  For the last 4 years or so, things seemed be ok, but now we are back to 50% of UPB units are dead, and signal levels are 2 for some devices.  What's even stranger is that some devices are fine with signals over 100.
 
What's incredible to me is that in one box, I have 2 switches side by side on the same feed line.
One switch has a reported signal of 131, the other has a signal of 2.  How is that even possible?
 
Some background:
I have an HAI Omni Pro II.
Pulseworx PIM.
23 UPB devices.  (all HAI).
HAI phase coupler.
 
The problem devices are not necessarily on another phase, the problem is not the phase coupler.
If I shutdown the UPS, then all signals are excellent.
 
I have tried switching the UPS to another phase.
I tried installing an X10 noise filter in front of the UPS.  No effect.
I know this isn't X10, but I'd try anything.  The UPS is 20 amp, fyi.
 
There is no measurable noise on the system.
It's like the UPS is a sponge that crushes all the UPB signals.
The HAI PIM is so weak it doesn't work at all (I tried 3 of them).  The Pulseworx PIM seems to be much stronger.
 
I have a second PIM and a laptop that I have tried in various places around the house, but I can't find any spot that works for everything.
 
We've been trying to get all the lights to work reliably for many years now with no luck.
Any other ideas out there?
 
Any other ideas out there?
Click to expand...
 
Welcome back to the Cocoontech forum Basildane.  There have been a few folks here on the forum having to deal with similiar issues relating to their UPB network of switches.  My primary lighting in wall switches here are UPB.  Only changes here recently (well a couple years back) have been to reduce the footprint of my UPB switches to multipaddle / dual load switches.  Base electrical here is metal conduit and boxes throughout the home. 
 
Here it's been a few years that I have had issues with my UPB stuff.  I do have multiple UPS's in use today.  I started here fine with great UPB signals.  One day in a sort of timely manner my signals dropped to the point of being useless.  I initially installed a PCS phase coupler.  It did not change anything for me.  I am using an HAI UPB Pim for the OmniPro II panel.  I purchased an HAI UPB repeater and my problems went away (its been a few years now).  Concurrently here using X10 and updated the HAI TW-523 single phase PIM to a Volp dual phase TW-523 emulator which has worked fine now for the last few years.
 
Well good to see you posting Basildane. 
 
Here never had noise with my UPB switches; just a timely signal sucking thing. 
 
Here using multiple PIMs connected to my OmniPro II panel making it work with whatever these days. 
 
My in wall newest UPB switches are all SA these days.  I do have PCS / HAI switches in place.  (hodgepodge over the years stuff)
 
There was  / is a link here somewhere for a good price on the PCS UPB repeater relating to one said and similiar discussion.
 
Personally I would give the UPB repeater a go DIYing it if you are comfortable with your fuse panel.  It takes a few minutes to install it. 
 
There's an interesting idea.  Is it possible to connect 2 PIM's to an Omni?  Put one on each phase?
I have one spare serial port.
 
Is it possible to tell if devices are Gen 1, 2 or 3 from Upstart?
I see firmware versions 1.01, 1.04, 1.05, 1.06 and 1.08, but I have no idea which "Gen" they are.
 
Is it possible to connect 2 PIM's to an Omni?  Put one on each phase?
Click to expand...
 
I have not read of anyone doing this or have inventing some dual phase UPB Pim product.
 
The UPB phase repeater does sort of similiar by taking the UPB signal over to the other phase. 
 
I have seen over 100% increase in signals using the UPB phase repeater.
 
Have a read here on the multiple posts relating to signal issues with UPB and one common denominator you will see is the repeater.
 
The above said though you have to see it working for yourself as electrical infrastructure while typically similiar can be unique home to home.
 
two things.  I don't know if I can use a repeater, I don't know which gen switches they are.
and two, the worst zones are on the same phase as the pim, so a repeater could not help there.
 
two things..... no three.  Three!  I checked the repeaters, they are $300 - $400! 
 
Is it possible to tell if devices are Gen 1, 2 or 3 from Upstart?
I see firmware versions 1.01, 1.04, 1.05, 1.06 and 1.08, but I have no idea which "Gen" they are.
Click to expand...
 
That has been another question asked frequently here.  As far as I know that is not possible from Upstart.  I am no UPB expert though.  There is a discussion (post) relating to the use of a UPB repeater and the generations of UPB switches some where here on the forum.  My oldest UPB in wall switches are PCS / HAI.  My newer ones are all SA.

 
two things.  I don't know if I can use a repeater, I don't know which gen switches they are.
and two, the worst zones are on the same phase as the pim, so a repeater could not help there.
 
two things..... no three.  Three!  I checked the repeaters, they are $300 - $400!
Click to expand...
 
Yup; it was on sale for around $179.  I paid much more for mine years ago. 
 
Thinking it was Home Controls.  I just checked there and it is now $374.  Wow.
 
Found it on Amazon for $179.00.  It is here.  
 
BTW my signals were way low on the two phases when I had my intermittent signal sucking issues and the repeater did the doo for me.
 
Truely though the proof will be for you to see it working in your home.
 
I actually got a different brand filter set rated at 15 A, 4 or 5 years ago and wired it in.  That hasn't helped much.  I don't recall the brand, it's in the panel right now.
Are you suggesting taking two of these in parallel?
 
Just dump your coupler and buy a HAI or PCS repeater. They are both the same but you can find the PCS one much cheaper.
 
As far as I can tell, all HAI switches were Gen 2 minimum and do support repeaters. The only ones that don't are Simply Automated switches.  BUT do make sure your PIM FW is 5.54 or later. Real early PCS PIM FW didn't support repeaters. 
 
Once you have your repeater working and UpStart recognizes it, it will give you much better signal level info. Then if you still have a problem, you can debug it, but don't even bother before you get a repeater.  (Remember get a "split-phase" repeater, not a 3-phase repeater.)
 
Here installed UPS's in many places in the home.  My intermittent signal sucking problem came afterwards.  Originally started with the PCS UPB phase coupler then went to the SA phase coupler. They didn't do anything for me.
 
I probably should purchase the PCS repeater as a hot spare. My older HAI repeater is doing fine these days.
 
Here use multiple UPB Pims.  The one connected to the OmniPro II panel is never touched.  I am also using software (more PIMs in the baement) and have one UPB Pim on the second floor connected to a Quatech serial server which I use to compare signals with the notebook usb UPB PIM as a floater.
 
You all are very helpful, thanks.  I ordered the PCS SPR.  I don't think that will solve the problem though, as even on the same phase, there is no signal.
But I can't pass up this price on an SPR.  I have to wonder why the price is so low.
 
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