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Motion detector zone type

So I bought this house with a partial OP2 installation...
 
What zone type should I use for the motion detectors?
 
I want a delay on them since they all seem to be installed between the likely entry points and the controller keypads. If I set them as away int they set off the alarm as soon as they are triggered, before  I can disarm the system inside the house.
 
I don't want them as entry/exit, since they trigger a chirp whenever you walk by.
 
Any thoughts?
 

pete_c

Guru
Welcome to the Cocoontech forum citrixmeister.
 
The original author of the OpenHab Omni Plugin left his OmniPro 2 in his old house when moving to a new home.
 
Here left my combo security automation panel and 500 page programming manual in the old house.  Speaking to the purchaser of the house a couple of years later he told me he never did program it.  It was a combo chatty kathy X10 mostly security and a bit of automation panel.
 
The topic of leaving automation and or devices when selling a home has come up here on the forum and other automation forums a few times.
 
Just a couple of days ago got an email from an automation friend's wife about selling her home.  Automation peer had DIY'd all of the automation in the house and then died in an accident a few years back.  I went to her home and looked at his automation / security events and hardware spending a bit of time there while she explained to me what she understood to be happening in the house.  At the time I noticed that parts of the software automation continued to work while other pieces had quit working. Initially she did want it to continue to work as it reminded her of her dead husband.  Then she didn't want it anymore.   I shut down the automation server and left the hardware in place.  I did find some odd DIY'd electrical stuff.  He had forbade any of the family to go in to the pool house without him opening the door.  Inside of the pool house found that he had put a sub panel on the floor next to the pump and filter and pool toys.  The pump had been failing and the fuse panel breakers had all arc'd and were burnt.  I wrote back to her and mentioned not to mention automation or include it in the verbiage of her selling the home.
 
Personally this stuff (OmniPro 2 panel) was way ahead of it's time and that said it is still that today. 
 
I envy you for wanting to learn about what you have as many folks would just remove it or never touch it or replace it something else.
 
Curious what the previous owners had set the zones to.
 
There are many choices and it can depend on what you want and how many folks (or children or pets) are in the house type of stuff.  (IE: what fits the best).
 
zones.jpg
 
There is a good explanation in PCA under that help  / zones section.
 
Zones: Zone Type

This installer-only setting in the Setup->Zones tab is used to set the type of zone for the specified zone number. Select between the options in the drop-down box. The Zone Type default setting is Auxiliary.

DESCRIPTION OF ZONE TYPES

NOTE: Depending on controller model, firmware version and zone location some zone types may not be available.

1 - ENTRY/EXIT

ENTRY/EXIT ZONE types are intended for doors. ENTRY/EXIT ZONES are armed in security modes DAY, NIGHT, AWAY, and VACATION. In DAY and AWAY modes, there is an entry delay (defined by ENTRY DELAY) on ENTRY/EXIT ZONES to allow you to get into the house and turn off the alarm before it sounds. In NIGHT & DAY INSTANT mode, there is no entry delay, so that the alarm sounds immediately if someone opens a door.

There are two special types of ENTRY/EXIT ZONES for use with garage doors, or doors that are far away from the control console.
 
They are called DOUBLE ENTRY DELAY and QUADRUPLE ENTRY DELAY zones. These zones have double or quadruple the ENTRY DELAY to give you additional time to reach the console to disarm the system upon returning. Only the ENTRY DELAY is extended on these zone types. The EXIT DELAY is not extended.

If an ENTRY/EXIT ZONE is tripped first, all other zones will are delayed.


2 - PERIMETER and LATCHING PERIMETER

PERIMETER ZONE types are intended for windows and exterior doors not requiring an entry delay. All PERIMETER ZONES are armed in security modes DAY, NIGHT, AWAY, and VACATION. There is not an entry delay on a perimeter zones. If a window or door on this zone is opened while the security system is in DAY, NIGHT, AWAY or VACATION mode, the alarm will sound immediately. LATCHING PERIMETER ZONES ignore the status of that zone during power cycles.

3 - NIGHT INTERIOR and LATCHING NIGHT INTERIOR

NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES are intended for motion detectors in areas where no one should be while you are sleeping in your home. For example, if you have a two-story home and sleep upstairs, your downstairs motion detector(s) should be on a NIGHT INTERIOR ZONE.

NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES are armed in security modes NIGHT, VACATION, and AWAY only. There is no delay on a NIGHT INTERIOR ZONE. Night interior zones are NOT armed in DAY or DAY INSTANT mode so that you may move about freely inside your home while still having the windows and doors protected. LATCHING NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES ignore the status of that zone during power cycles.

4 - AWAY INTERIOR and LATCHING AWAY INTERIOR

AWAY INTERIOR ZONES are for areas of your home where no one should be while you are away. In the previous example, your upstairs motion detector(s) should be on an AWAY INTERIOR ZONE. AWAY INTERIOR ZONES are armed only when the security mode is AWAY. LATCHING AWAY INTERIOR ZONES ignore the status of that zone during power cycles.
 

ano

Senior Member
citrixmeister said:
So I bought this house with a partial OP2 installation...
 
What zone type should I use for the motion detectors?
 
I want a delay on them since they all seem to be installed between the likely entry points and the controller keypads. If I set them as away int they set off the alarm as soon as they are triggered, before  I can disarm the system inside the house.
 
I don't want them as entry/exit, since they trigger a chirp whenever you walk by.
 
Any thoughts?
So your problem is you don't have a sensor on the door you are entering with. The motion sensors should be Away Interior just like you have them, but the alarm is designed to be triggered by a parameter sensor FIRST. Once that occurs, the motion sensors won't trip the alarm.  The fact that a parameter zone is not triggering first is causing the problem. So if you can add parameter sensors to the doors you enter and make these parameter zones. You can add your garage door as well, and as Desert_AIP says, make this zone a 2X zone to give you a longer time to enter.  You could add a wireless receiver as well, then use a keyfob to deactivate your alarm before you enter.  Otherwise you will probably need to move the motion detectors, but the best solution is to add parameters zones to the doors you enter the house from.  That is how its designed to work.
 
Away interior.
 
The OP doesn't state he DOESN'T have contacts on the perimeter E/E doors, so that's easy enough to solve, and realistically, would someone put in an OP with no door contacts? Seems silly to me. You wouldn't put 2X the delay if the door has a contact on it. If the motion is looking at the keypad, that's a design issue and easily solved by minimal masking of the detector 90% of the time. Usually the performance or capture of the detector isn't going to be affected by masking it looking at a keypad.
 

Desert_AIP

Senior Member
How are the motions tripping the alarm before he enters the code unless there are no door contacts?
See his first post:
 
"If I set them to Away Interior they set off the alarm as soon as they are triggered"
 
If there are door contacts, as soon as the door contact trips the entry delay is activated, tripping additional zones wouldn't sound the alarm unless they were set to panic.
 
 
I'm guessing the previous owner saved money by only installing motions.
Now I have seen a door contact fail (in my last house) and remain closed all the time.
 
ano said:
So your problem is you don't have a sensor on the door you are entering with. The motion sensors should be Away Interior just like you have them, but the alarm is designed to be triggered by a parameter sensor FIRST. Once that occurs, the motion sensors won't trip the alarm.  The fact that a parameter zone is not triggering first is causing the problem. So if you can add parameter sensors to the doors you enter and make these parameter zones. You can add your garage door as well, and as Desert_AIP says, make this zone a 2X zone to give you a longer time to enter.  You could add a wireless receiver as well, then use a keyfob to deactivate your alarm before you enter.  Otherwise you will probably need to move the motion detectors, but the best solution is to add parameters zones to the doors you enter the house from.  That is how its designed to work.
So I saw that in the manual, but it isn't working like that. For instance, you enter the garage door (entry / exit zone) and the motion detector over the door from the garage to the house (away int zone) trips with your car driving in, and by the time you get out of the car the screamer is going inside the house. Are you saying I should set the garage door from entry / exit zone to perimeter zone? How about the front door (also entry / exit zone)?
 
Desert_AIP said:
Delay X2 is probably what you want
that's what i have it set to now, but because all of the delays are of zone type entry / exit, the keypads chirp whenever you walk by and activate the motion detector. (Wife likes the chirps for doors.)
 
 
pete_c said:
Curious what the previous owners had set the zones to.
Long story on the previous owner, and short sale, but basically I inadvertently erased the entire OP when upgrading the firmware, it was probably gone anyway due to extended power failure. When I say partial install I really mean minimal. The only thing finished was the smokes, and I replaced those due to false alarms.
 
I did note the zone types in the installation guide, but the only thing with a delay is entry / exit, and that's for doors (and it's chirping).
 
With regards to what I am doing with it, it's very well documented now.
 
 
DELInstallations said:
Away interior.
 
The OP doesn't state he DOESN'T have contacts on the perimeter E/E doors, so that's easy enough to solve, and realistically, would someone put in an OP with no door contacts? Seems silly to me. You wouldn't put 2X the delay if the door has a contact on it. If the motion is looking at the keypad, that's a design issue and easily solved by minimal masking of the detector 90% of the time. Usually the performance or capture of the detector isn't going to be affected by masking it looking at a keypad.
Sorry about incomplete info. I do have door switches, they are working, and i have set them all to e/e zones including the garage doors. The motions I just wired in last week, and unfortunately both keypads are in full view of a motion, well really 2 motion detectors. I know the e/e is supposed to stop the motion from alarming, but it doesn't, and the result is the same from both doors I have tried.
 
Before I wired the motions, the entry delay worked properly, and i didn't change any settings.

And thanks for the help men, you're all studs.
 

pete_c

Guru
Good news there citrixmeister.
 
Best way for us to help you is for you to post all of your stuff as relating to your implementation.
 
Without knowing the whole picture of what you havet will difficult to guess / offer advice on the best way to configure your panel.   Partial information will not help us help you.
 
Start with all of the hardware / wires you have going to your panel.
 
Zone 1-16 is a the base on the main board.  Are you using just the 16 on the motherboard or do you have expansion installed?
 
16 is easy peasy as well as 32 and 48 ...
 
Do you have a thermostat (s) installed?  Do you have output devices installed? 
 
zone 1 is connected to this doo what
zone 2 is connected to this other doo what...
 
Keep going with the zones.  It is two wires that opens / closes a loop.  Do you have EOL resistors in place or are you not using them?
 
The also you have 4 wire PIRs typically   - how many of these do you have in place.  There also exists PIRs with multiple sensors and multiple loops.  Do you have any of these in place.  That said add up the power from each of these devices while you audit your stuff.
 
You mention smokes; are these 2 wire or 4 wire smokes.  How are they wired to the panel.
 
You mentioned two keypads - add up the power from the two.
 
Create a little spreadsheet of your stuff and post it here.  I am guessing you have documented everything so far.
 
Draw a loosey goosey picture of you home, sensors, doors, keypad positions and post it here. 
 
Personally the more I know about what you know helps me understand your basic knowledge base of the panel and helps me write or offer the best advice.  
 
Many alarm installers here on the forum do this in their head today or can do it blind folded as they do this every day or have done it for the last 30 years.
 
The panel is not really complicated and it is today still way ahead of its time. 
 
There are sections on the panel today where you define a room with as many automation trinkets as you want; audio, cctv, wireless stuff, hard switches on doors, windows, PIRs, whatever.
 
Personally here while I have IR repeaters / blasters I have not ever automated my IR with a computer (software or firmware).  Never really saw IR automation as a sure bet methodology of automation.  I do automate / control media players but there are no dependencies one to another; just added candy.  
 
That said if you have never done this before then it can be challenging. 
 
There is also a scratch pad for you to write everything in the OmniPro 2 installation manual and wondering too if anything is written on the cover of the HAI can label.
 
I mentioned that the help menu in PCA in a valuable resource.  
 
Attached here are links to the installation manual and user manual which also offer valuable resources.
 
The above three mentioned documents will help you tremendously.
 
HAI OmniPro Installation Manual
 
HAI OmniPro Owners Manual
 
PC Access Help File
 

Desert_AIP

Senior Member
You usually have to set a garage door to Delay x2 or Delay x4 to give you time to get to the pad and cancel the alarm.

The entry timer starts as soon as the door moves, most garage doors take 10 seconds or so to traverse, then you drive in, park, get out,etc. All the while you are eating into the entry delay. Also, what is your entry delay set to?
 

ano

Senior Member
citrixmeister said:
So I saw that in the manual, but it isn't working like that. For instance, you enter the garage door (entry / exit zone) and the motion detector over the door from the garage to the house (away int zone) trips with your car driving in, and by the time you get out of the car the screamer is going inside the house. Are you saying I should set the garage door from entry / exit zone to perimeter zone? How about the front door (also entry / exit zone)?
You want any door you exit/enter to be "entry/exit", and things like windows to be parameters.  The difference is they the exit/entry have an entry delay, the others do not.  The 2X and 4X are different versions of the "entry/exit" but with 2 times or 4 times more time to enter. 
 
When you enter from outside, you should enter through a door that is either "entry/exit" or 2X or 4X.  One of these need to trip BEFORE you trip a motion detector which should be "Away Interior."  If your alarm is still going off before you can get to the keypad, perhaps your entry delay is too short.  30 seconds is typical. 
 
So double check.  Make sure you enter through a "Entry/Exit" door or 2X or 4X door first.  If you do have a motion sensor in your garage, make that an auxiliary and only use it for home automation.  Motion detectors in an unheated garage shouldn't be used for security.  And check that entry delay time so you have enough time to get to the keypad.  If you need more time you can use those 2X and 4X zones which people typically use for their garage door. 
 
pete_c said:
Best way for us to help you is for you to post all of your stuff as relating to your implementation.
 
Create a little spreadsheet of your stuff and post it here.  I am guessing you have documented everything so far.
 
Draw a loosey goosey picture of you home, sensors, doors, keypad positions and post it here. 
 
Personally the more I know about what you know helps me understand your basic knowledge base of the panel and helps me write or offer the best advice.  
 
Took a picture of it, but unable to reduce picture size easily at present, so will have to settle for word picture. I'm not very facile with picture drawing software, but the below should give you some idea.
 
Old 3 serial port OP2, after chip upgrade to FW 3.14a
Network enabled, static IP using dealer PCA current version network access
HAI UPB interface (not working, i think i misterminated the serial cable)
I added 1 16 zone hardwire expander and one 20a30-1 omni notifier, connected and programmed the RC 80s,
 
I believe there is one 39a00-1 powerline phase coupler, but I haven't found it yet. I have a spare.
 
14 door switches Honeywell 951WG zones 1 - 6, 14, 15, 17 - 22 configured as e/e zone type, 1k ohm resistors present, entry delay 30 and exit delay 60
3 Edwards signalling 2315A-L magnetic switches, zones 27 - 29 only 1 currently wired, x2 entry delay, 1k ohm present e/e zone x2 entry delay
 
7x System Sensor 4WT-B 4 wire photoelectric and thermal smokes zones 7 - 13, ESL 204 and 1k ohm present, zone type fire. ESL 505-03 uninstalled due to no internal sounder on the 4WT-B.
 
4x Visonic NEXT K9-85 motion detectors, 1k ohm present, I have already purchased Risco iWise dualtech 25 m motion detectors for 2 of the zones, and am considering replacing one or both of the remaining Visonics
 
2x Omnistat RC 80 thermostats for cooling only, zone 16 configured as following:
  • Item 00 address – 1 (S) 2 (N)
  • Item 01 communications mode 1
  • Item 02 system options 20
  • Item 03 display options 7
  • Item 04 calibration offset 30
  • Item 05 Cool setpoint limit 60
  • Item 06 Heat setpoint limit 80
  • Item 11 Cooling minimum on/off time 8
  • Item 12 Heating minimum on/off time 8
  • Item 14 clock adjust 30
  • Item 15 Filter reminder 60
Radiant floor heating currently not interfacing with OP
 
1x non-speaker Omni keypad
 
1x OmniTouch keypad
 
1x interior sounder
 
1x exterior sounder? there is resistance across the circuit, but it makes no noise.
 
Many 35A00-1 UPB 600 watt dimmer switches, and auxiliary switches, currently configured as 12 rooms, Probably need to repeat the entire configuration process according to OP2 firmware 2.9 release starting page 19.
 
4 SA URD30 outlets
 
2 room controllers
 
1 house controller
 
SnapLink
 
Russound CAV 6.6 currently not interfacing with OP2, many installation issues although it is working.
 
There are some cryptically labelled wires in the panel, currently unused. Also on the to do list, there is another panel with video cable, some hardware, and coax hanging out of the home at various points, and a couple of new in box circa 2005 video cameras. My experience with video is minimal, so that's somewhere around the priority level of the Russound.
 
Also conspicuously missing is glass break and window sensors, I am considering a wireless protocol and hardware for this.
 
There was nothing written on the HAI can, of the above the only thing installed when I got there were 4 random doors and the smoke detectors. There was much evidence to suggest that whoever started installing the system quit in the middle of the job (why all the spare parts?).
 

pete_c

Guru
Baby steps now; divide up what you want to do with the panel in little mini endeavours. 
 
I am assuming right now that you are not in a rush or using central services monitoring.
 
Maybe start first (as it was your first question) with your Zone's (32?) implementation and enabling/ disabling you alarm stuff.
 
It is up to you right now where and what you want to do first.  The OmniPro 2 panel is very flexible relating to security and automation.
 
Writing here now at the 10,000 foot view a bit.
 
Are you looking to all home occupants to have remote control of your automation or are you looking for a set and forget type of automation stuff?
 
I see you have an Omni Keypad and Omnitouch screen. 
 
I am guessing here that you / your family primarily use one of these devices and it is near main used entrance to home. 
 
Do you or will you utilize your alarm at night while sleeping.  Have you considered adding more consoles?
 
No central monitoring yet.
 
I want mostly set and forget, but others will need to use security. We actually use both keypads, the omni touch is near the front door.
 
Yes, i want to use night, possibly day instant, possibly other security modes, but we have to agree on what we want them to do.
 
Adding consoles, the ones I have now are well placed, and I would probably have to pull wire, so probably not.
 

pete_c

Guru
A bit further granularity relating to multiple user remote control you also have the choice of a user turning on or off the alarm and a master user controlling events or actions like lighting or thermostat.  Some folks prefer that the thermostat is just automated and displays temps and other folks like to manually set the thermostat overiding the automation.  Here my wife always is doing an on demand either cooling or heating overiding any automation.
 
Relating to the settings of the zones; you can set the interior zones as described here if you want:
 
3 - NIGHT INTERIOR and LATCHING NIGHT INTERIOR

NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES are intended for motion detectors in areas where no one should be while you are sleeping in your home. For example, if you have a two-story home and sleep upstairs, your downstairs motion detector(s) should be on a NIGHT INTERIOR ZONE.

NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES are armed in security modes NIGHT, VACATION, and AWAY only. There is no delay on a NIGHT INTERIOR ZONE. Night interior zones are NOT armed in DAY or DAY INSTANT mode so that you may move about freely inside your home while still having the windows and doors protected. LATCHING NIGHT INTERIOR ZONES ignore the status of that zone during power cycles.

 
Relating to the above when you are away and come back to turn off the alarm via keypad there is always a delay in place which will not trigger an alarm.  IE:
 
1 - you open an entrance / exit door
2 - clock starts to tick relating to alarm trigger
3 - you walk in the room (with PIRs) where the keypad is at
4 - clock to trigger continues to tick while a sounder is beeping
5 - you disable the alarm via keypad.
 
You can test the above.  Stand in front of the keypad, enable the alarm, wait for the count down and beeping to the alarm being enabled and move a bit around.  You will have triggered the alarm moving about.
 
To close the loop on this topic, I think I have figured out what is going on.
 
Turns out the front door motion does work correctly, when correctly set up.
 
The garage motion appears to be triggered by the motion of the garage door PRIOR TO the magnetic garage door switch losing contact, thus the lack of a delay. I will separate the switch and the magnet, to test this theory (when I get a chance).
 
Thanks all for your help, I hope someone else can benefit from this topic.
 
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