New Construction - Structured Wiring Questions

[thejammonster]

Hello All,
First post here after registering and lurking for a bit.  I read through the 'Wiring Your House 101' guide but it seems to be somewhat outdated and didn't help to clarify much for me.  I apologize if I'm not following the rules in any way!  But now down to business...
 
I am building a new home this year and I am going to the builder showroom this Thursday to pick out my options and finishes.  I would like to go in with a clear and concise plan for wiring so that I get everything I would like and don't need to fish wires through the wall at any point in the foreseeable future.  I don't know who the builder uses as a contractor yet but they seem pretty adamant in not letting me pick my own.  I plan to meet with the contractor once I have their info later this week.
 
Right now I am not concerned with the type of equipment I will use down the road (unless there is vendor-specific wiring), I only want to have the foundation of wiring in place.  I plan to start with only an Ethernet switch and a router for my LAN and buying the automation equipment later.
 
Details:
 
2,400 sq ft
2 story, slab foundation
3 bed, 2.5 bath
 
Rooms:
 
Downstairs - living room, kitchen, dining room, half bath, 2 car garage, covered patio
Upstairs - master suite (bedroom, bathroom, walk-in closet), game room/loft, spare bedroom, office (3rd bedroom), full bathroom, laundry room, utility closet (hot water heater & HVAC)
 
What I would like (eventually):
 
Ethernet LAN
Whole-house audio
Distributed video - on the fence on this one now that most providers are offering whole-home DVR systems, but having wiring in place can't hurt
Security - cameras, door/window sensors, fire, maybe flood sensors
Automated lighting
Automated blinds/drapes
Various automation - garage door, deadbolts, etc.
Landscape lighting
Sprinkler system
Gas fire pit
Phone (POTS) - for resale purposes only
 
What I know I need:
 
Cat6 drops - lots of them
Speaking pre-wiring
Neutral wires at all switches
Deep junction boxes
 
 
Again, I will not have any equipment installed right away other than home networking gear so I am only concerned with the wiring being in place for future use.  I think that a lot of this can be accomplished using Cat6 cable but the things I am not sure about are things like the lighting, security cameras and sensors, blinds/drapes, and so on.  Here are the most to-the-point questions I can think of.
 
Ethernet LAN:
 
Is there any need for Cat5e if I have the option of everything being Cat6?
Is there anything Cat5e can't currently do that Cat6 can?
 
Whole-house audio:
 
Does a zone typically have all channels wired back to the control room (i.e. 5.1 surround) or is there just a single feed and the channels are broken out in that zone?
Is copper wiring still the standard or are there new options?
 
Distributed video:
 
HDBaseT seems like the way to go here - thoughts?
Should Cat6 be all I need for this?
 
Security:
 
What kind of wiring is needed for sensors?  Cameras?
 
Automated lighting:
 
Is anything special needed besides having neutral wires at all switches?
I didn't see it anywhere, but is the neutral wire required at the outlets, too?
 
Automated blinds/drapes:
 
What kind of wiring is needed for motorized blinds/drapes?
Is wiring besides power required?
 
Various automation:
 
What kind of wiring is needed for deadbolts, garage doors, etc?
Am I missing anything obvious that I didn't think of?
 
Landscape lighting:
 
Would this just interface with an automation controller like any other light?
 
Sprinkler system:
 
Would this typically have its own controller and is that typically compatible with existing automation systems?
 
Gas fire pit:
 
Anyone have experience with how this could work?
 
Phone (POTS):
 
Is this even worth doing these days?
 
 
I'm sorry that this ended up being a million questions.  I would love to just use an installer in my area that knows these things but I think I will be handcuffed by the builder's contractor choice.  The contract also states that no changes can be made after 3 days from choosing all of my options and finishes, which is why I need to know what to ask for up front.
 
Thanks in advance,
Will

 

[sic0048]

Well unfortunately there is no single complete answer for any of your questions.  The fact is that there are multiple ways to handle each, and they might all require a different wiring scheme.
 
Cat5e vs Cat6 - Ive run cat5e everywhere and probably still will.  However you can make the arguement that Cat6 is more future proofing.  As far as I know, there is no current need for Cat6 wiring yet.  I'm sure there will be one day....
 
Whole house audio - it really depends on the system you end up wanting to choose.  However, most of the more robust systems have speaker wires home run from each zone to the main equipment location as well as a keypad run (generally cat5e).  Some systems will have the audio come out from the keypad location.  So if you really want to future proof, home run the audio cables, but loop them behind the potential keypad location before continuing on to the main equipment location.  You could always cut the wire at the keypad and plug it into the keypad should your system need that wiring scheme.
 
Multi-channel surround sound is generally handed differently.  Most times you will have a surround sound receiver that is separate from your stereo whole house audio system.  I like to put those receivers in the same location as all the other equipment, so that means homerunning each speaker channel to the closet.  But again, if there is a location where you might place a local receiver, then loop all the audio channel wires behind that location so you can always use the speaker wire there by cutting into the homeruns.
 
Distributed Video - the cheapest solution is still running RGB to each device.  HDMI is still an expensive distribution method.  Run 3 wires for RGB as well as 2-3 wires for audio (L&R, and digital) to each and every location where you might have a display, or a source device.  Multiple source devices at the same location still need 5-6 wires per device.  Personally I have run mini-coax for this purpose as it is cheaper than the other alternatives.  Keep in mind that this wire needs to be designed for line level video and audio signals.  Normal RG-6/RG-59 (even shielded) does not meet this requirement.
 
Security - nothing special here and there are plenty of places to read about this.  
 
Automated Lighting - varies greatly from manufacture to manufacture and system to system.  You will need to plan ahead and pick a solution before deciding on how to wire for it.
 
Blinds - wire for power (LV) and contact closures to be safe.  Some are wireless, but running extra wire later will be a real pain on exterior walls.
 
Sprinkler - run a couple cat5e wires to the controller location to future proof.
 
POTS - this should be part of your structured wiring scheme.  Do not run Cat3 wire.  Only run Cat5e or better wire and then you can choose whether it is used for phone or data.  Run enough to each location that you can have both everywhere and home run each to the equipment location.  Do not allow the installer to use a Star Network that was common with POTs.  Personally I have an Asterisk based digital phone system and would suggest looking at the same, but the wiring isn't any different than a normal home run network.
 
Honestly I don't think you will get this all together by Thursday.  I also suspect you will be shocked at the sticker price of each run.  Therefore I would suggest having the building install wiring tubing with a pull string for all your downstairs wall and ceiling needs and upstairs exterior wall locations/runs.  Upstairs interior walls will be easier to pull to later if you have good attic access.  Be sure you have a wire chase between your main equipment location and the attic space.  This needs to be fairly large.
 
Let them run the security wiring now (no tubes are needed for that).  The wiring is the same for most security systems.  Dont let them put resistors on the wires unless you know what system you are going with and they can install the resistors at the far end of each run.  Do not allow them to install them at the panel end of the run as they are pointless there and only add unneeded cost with zero benefit.

 

[thejammonster]

Thanks for the input.  I realize that this is a lot to ask in a small period of time but I was kind of caught off guard.  I was originally supposed to be doing this stuff next month but they had an opening this week.  The build process doesn't start until I complete the showroom stuff, so I went for it.
 
I think I am going to have to push them on the issue of selecting my own contractor for this.  I know that their pricing book of options isn't going to cover half of this stuff, so they wouldn't be able to give me a final price anyway.  I am still open to any suggestions or further answers to my questions, though.

 

[picta]

I assume you have also read this guide: http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101/
 
I would try to negotiate for a week of time during construction before the drywall goes up to do the LV wiring. Just like the other poster said, I think it will be difficult to make a comprehensive plan in a couple of days and it is common for builders to overcharge for wiring, most likely because they try to overcompensate for lack of experience. Also consider purchasing your own wire, you'll need a lot of it. Monoprice is a good source. You'll find that cat6 is more expensive than cat5, and for many applications cat5 is sufficient. Security wire is 22/2 for door/window sensors and 22/4 for motion and occupancy. For window coverings run 16/2 + cat5, it will cover any types of motors. 18/3 to garage opener. A few cat6 to any video location. For controlling landscaping lights you'll need a transformer that can be plugged into an automated outlet. So the outlets will need a neutral if you want to be able to easily automate them. Having conduit run between floors and anywhere you can will help with future expansion. Good luck.

 

[drvnbysound]

I assume you have also read this guide: http://cocoontech.com/forums/files/file/64-wiring-your-new-house-101/
 
I would try to negotiate for a week of time during construction before the drywall goes up to do the LV wiring. Just like the other poster said, I think it will be difficult to make a comprehensive plan in a couple of days and it is common for builders to overcharge for wiring, most likely because they try to overcompensate for lack of experience. Also consider purchasing your own wire, you'll need a lot of it. Monoprice is a good source. You'll find that cat6 is more expensive than cat5, and for many applications cat5 is sufficient. Security wire is 22/2 for door/window sensors and 22/4 for motion and occupancy. For window coverings run 16/2 + cat5, it will cover any types of motors. 18/3 to garage opener. A few cat6 to any video location. For controlling landscaping lights you'll need a transformer that can be plugged into an automated outlet. So the outlets will need a neutral if you want to be able to easily automate them. Having conduit run between floors and anywhere you can will help with future expansion. Good luck.

 
Did you mean 18/3?

 

[picta]

Yes, 18/3 to garage opener as some models may require a double pole switch, and some may even have a status output. I ran 2 18/2 to mine

 

[drvnbysound]

Yes, 18/3 to garage opener as some models may require a double pole switch, and some may even have a status output. I ran 2 18/2 to mine

 
Gotcha.
 
Mine was a standard single-pole switch, so I just ran a single 22/2 for the GDO, and another 22/2 for the overhead door sensor.

 

[signal15]

If the builder won't let you hire your own low-voltage guy, that's a huge red flag.  I wouldn't work with a builder that didn't let me do that.  In fact, most builders WILL allow it.  Your builder won't let this issue jeopardize the deal, push it hard.

 

[thejammonster]

Thanks again to the new replies.  I did read the Wiring Your New Home 101 guide but as I mentioned before it seemed a little outdated and it really just raised more questions (more options) than provide answers.  The answers that user picta gave were really what I was looking for, to say "use X wire for Y application".  I will obviously double-check everything before taking that as fact but it is good to know.  As for Monoprice, I already buy EVERYTHING possible from them, so I certainly already had some bulk wire purchases in mind.
 
@signal15, I agree with you.  I am hoping that the contract language is written to cover their asses, but that they will be more flexible when I tell them what I want.  I haven't had the appointment at the showroom yet so I am preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.  Right now I would only be out $500 if I decided to walk so I'm not totally stuck with something I'm not happy with.  Hopefully the builder will want a few hundred grand over holding firm to their contract language!

 

[signal15]

Let us know how it goes.
 
Another thing you should do is run wide conduit to your AV locations since the technology changes so quickly and it would make it easier to run whatever new cabling is required in the future.

 

[tmbrown97]

Some thoughts on this:
 
Many builders, when pushed hard enough, will let you come in and wire after their electrical people are done and before drywall goes up.  It's your responsibility to tack the wires out of the way so they don't get nicked, and you'll have no warranty recourse - but it'll cost a fraction.  This is never an official policy, but generally a period where they'll turn their backs and let it happen since no inspector will see it (it's after electrical inspection).  Push for that if you can - or arrange your own contractor.  They'll charge so much more per run through their design centers.
 
From there:
Cat5e/6 - Cat6 costs more and is thicker so bundles get larger - but it's the new standard.  That said, there's nothing out yet that requires it and I don't see it being a requirement for anything in the next 10 years.  Gigabit still runs just fine over Cat5 (not even E) if distances are under 100'.  That said, I tend to do Cat6 just because nowadays.
 
For drapes, they come in LV and HV versions - I'd wire 18/4 and then specifically find drapes that work with that later.  Running Cat5e or 110V or both to each drape may be more universal but much harder to terminate nicely especially when it's not in use yet.
 
Landscape - this is easy - many landscape controllers have a little pigtail plug inside the transformer box - this is intended to let you hook a timer outlet inside the box.  I use UPB but most lighting technologies have lamp modules - that can go in the same spot.  It's nice having my newly added landscape lights work with my back patio light switch!
 
Outlets and Neutral... well an outlet doesn't work without neutral - you have hot and neutral to make a circuit, so it's going to be there no matter what.  Switches don't always have neutral because you really only need to interrupt the Hot (or the neutral if you want to get technical) to break a circuit - so at one point it was much more common to see "End of Run" switches where they ran the hot to the switch over one wire and returned the switched power over the other (usually neutral) wire.  *** Just in case anyone calls me on the technicality - an outlet can exist without a neutral - it'd have both HOT wires on opposite legs of the power, and in which case you'd have 220V.
 
Fire Pits: I looked into this a lot when I was having my gas fire pit installed.  I decided not to spring the extra cash for the automated version (like $2K vs. $50 for the burner) but I prepped it for the future upgrade.  The main difference with any electronic fireplace is that the pit is filled in differently - in a generic pic they just fill with sand/stone and lay a burner on top, then cover that with rock.  In an automated one, there's usually a control box that goes into the pit with a metal pan liner that hangs around the edges and the burner sits in there, filled with glass or fire rock.  The control box can be 110V or LV.  Some are even battery operated with remotes.  People have hacked the remotes with relays which is pretty doable; the simplest and most reliable one I found was to use the 110V sort that lights when it has power and turns off when it doesn't - or a 110V one that uses a separate set of contacts.  For this reason I ran two pieces of conduit to the base of my pit so I could run the 110V and control wires in the future.  If it's a 110V switched, then using any automation technology or a RIB and hooked to a control system works pretty well.  If I make this upgrade, I'll include some safety switches too.
 
AV has been covered pretty well - run a few CatX cabling to the TV's - hopefully HDBaseT will work - if you need to go analog you can... I'd probably spring the extra to do that over running coax myself - but it's all preference.  Or there are HDMI over CatX extenders.  It wouldn't hurt to make those dedicated video runs shielded Cat6 for best performance.
 
Audio - as mentioned, some in-wall controllers are also the amplifier so you'd need speaker wires looped to there - but most systems run all the speakers to one place - so you can make life easier by home running all speaker wires to a single place.  Keep in mind for places like bathrooms, many people only run a single speaker but they run Dual Voice Coil speakers so even in a single speaker location, it's a good idea to run 4 conductor wire - this lets you get both stereo channels out of a single speaker.  Rooms with surround will have their own receivers; some people run separate speakers for background music vs. full audio; some people use a special switcher that takes the surrounds and switches them between the surround system and the whole house audio... point is it'd be annoying to have to go fiddle with the room's dedicated receiver to get your background music on for that room - so either dedicated speakers or that switcher are nice - for the switcher to work you need to loop the speaker wires over by the receiver where there's usually an in-wall component that handles the switching - this could be behind the main receiver.
 
You didn't mention Cameras - but those are the hardest thing to retrofit because they're always lower on exterior walls - so any place you think you might want a camera outside, run at least a single CatX wire - this can be POE and network down the road.
 
Also for security - in addition to whatever is prewired, make sure either no EOL resistors are added, or if they are that they're field changeable or chosen to match the security system you think you want - they tend to be different.  Then for the keypads, run the Cat5e to each keypad and probably another 22/4.  That way if you go with something like an Elk, you can have the speaker there too... or if you need more inputs or outputs, you can often steal the ones off the keypads or find other purposes for them.
 
Run an extra Cat5e to the thermostats in case you decide to swap them out for Serial controlled down the road - way more reliable than having to go Z-Wave.
 
For locks, if you can run wires for those, great - the best way is to have electrified hinges and a door that's cored - but that's expensive and less likely to happen... but even if you went with a regular off-the-shelf Z-Wave lock, it could be modified to use that power and you'd never have to think about weak or dead batteries! 
 
For sprinklers, some people use control systems and some of us just use relays.  For me I ran a sub-panel off my elk security system out to the garage where the sprinkler controllers are.  That has input/output expanders and is an extension of the databus - so I can run any security components there... then I go from there to control the garage doors, the garage sensors, and use the relays to control the sprinklers directly.  Cat5e should let you do any of those options.

 

[Del91574]

Without getting into the infrastructure and cabling fray....
 
The Cat 5 vs. 5E vs. 6 is a moot point 99% of the time, even in commercial. You can run as you wish, but unless every component that is connected to the cabling, from the RJ45 and plates to the network components, has Cat 6 compliant components, you will never get the performance of 5E vs. 6.....then there's the whole workmanship and cable running that needs to be considered. The majority of networks and components don't even approach gigabit bandwith! (only peer to peer speeds)
 
If you're not going to certify the cabling and install 6 hardware, it's a moot point and doubtful that most people would revisit the terminations to change from a 5e rated component to a 6.

 

[thejammonster]

Thank you for the new responses.  My builder's pricing book says $75 per CatX run (I don't know if it is 5, 5e or 6).  Is that at or above the going rate?  Just trying to gauge their pricing.

 

[drvnbysound]

You can get 1000' for ~$80+shipping:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=102&cp_id=10233&cs_id=1023303&p_id=880&seq=1&format=2

 

[signal15]

Thank you for the new responses.  My builder's pricing book says $75 per CatX run (I don't know if it is 5, 5e or 6).  Is that at or above the going rate?  Just trying to gauge their pricing.

 
 
That's a ripoff and it's insane.  1000ft of Cat5e is $50 or so if you're an installer ($75 if you buy at Home Depot), and Cat6 is just over $100 for 1000ft through Monoprice.  Jacks are about $1-1.50 each.  Patch panel is $20.  Figure the average run is 60ft (probably an overestimate), you're getting charged nearly $70 in labor to do a single run.  In a framed out house with no drywall, you can do several of them per hour.  So do the math, they're making several hundred bucks an hour to run your wire.  That's ridiculous.  Not only that, but you probably want more than one jack at each location since HDMI baluns typically require two, and you'll want network, and the option to use other types of baluns.
 
Not only that, but I'm completely wary of builders that have showrooms.  It seems all of them jack the prices on everything to 5 times what it should be.  The give you the basics, but if you want to upgrade, you pay dearly for it.  The last builder I spoke with that came HIGHLY recommended charged 10% on top of his costs for everything, and he provided all of his actual invoices for material and subcontractors.  We didn't end up building because we found an awesome deal on a pre-existing home.  However, when I do build, I'm going with a builder that charges a percentage on top of actual costs.  He also would allow you to bring in your own subs if you preferred someone, he just tacked on 10%.
 
In any case, if they won't let you hire your own guy for LV, then I would make them put in the boxes and run flexible conduit back to the utility room.  You can run it yourself later or hire someone to do it.  Call some local low voltage companies and get quotes on wiring an unfinished house, they are going to come in way less than this guy is charging.