Newbie question

[hockeypuck]

Do the pros crip or solder the splices for door and window contacts? Also do you run 4wire or 2 wire for simple contacts? It seems like most run 4 so they can have a spare or put eol resistor back in the panel? Do you run homeruns for each contact or "daisy chain" them? And for my last question, 2 or 4 wire smokes?
Thank you, Hockeypuck.

One more thing, is Caddx a decent low cost security board?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I believe the pro's crimp, I like to solder and shrink tube (takes longer). I use 2 wire for door and window contacts and do parallel some windows that are in very close proximity to each other to save zones. If you do this make sure you wire the windows in "series" and not in "parallel". I also dont' use EOL's in my home environment (advantages don't weigh on the trouble to put them at the sensor).

Four wire runs are typically for motion and glass breaks, also keypads. Some people use Cat5e in keypad locations for future touch screen network connectivity.

Caddx is a "decent" low cost security board, but its programming is not for the faint of heart!

 

[Steve]

Do the pros crip or solder the splices for door and window contacts?

I would say most pros crimp. Soldering is too labor intensive for guys wanting to just get in and out quickly. Many use 'Beenies' (B connectors) but the round Scotchlok connectors work well too.

Also do you run 4wire or 2 wire for simple contacts? It seems like most run 4 so they can have a spare or put eol resistor back in the panel?

Nothing wrong with running 22/4 but all you need is 22/2. You don't need extra pair for EOL, they work on 2 wire. I use 22/2 for doors/windows and 22/4 for PIR and GB.

Do you run homeruns for each contact or "daisy chain" them?

I like to homerun each ZONE. Most of the time a zone is an individual contact. If you have multiple side by side windows or a doublehung then its ok to daisy chain those and homerun that zone. Electrically it does not matter but if you homerun you have more flexibilty.

And for my last question, 2 or 4 wire smokes?

Do a search on that, many threads. Bottom line - personal preference. 2 wire only gives you 1 zone and daisy chained. 4 wire gives you individual zones and homerun. I think 'majority' go with 4 wire in a large or multistory home. But you also need an EOL supervision relay and that can add up on alot of individual zones. So it all depends on whether you need the granularity of know which smoke went off without looking at the LEDs.

 

[rfdesq]

EOL's do not belong in the panel. I'm a 2 wire smoke guy. I agree with BSR on the Caddx, and I have programmed them.

 

[hockeypuck]

Do the pros crip or solder the splices for door and window contacts?

I would say most pros crimp. Soldering is too labor intensive for guys wanting to just get in and out quickly. Many use 'Beenies' (B connectors) but the round Scotchlok connectors work well too.

Also do you run 4wire or 2 wire for simple contacts? It seems like most run 4 so they can have a spare or put eol resistor back in the panel?

Nothing wrong with running 22/4 but all you need is 22/2. You don't need extra pair for EOL, they work on 2 wire. I use 22/2 for doors/windows and 22/4 for PIR and GB.

Do you run homeruns for each contact or "daisy chain" them?

I like to homerun each ZONE. Most of the time a zone is an individual contact. If you have multiple side by side windows or a doublehung then its ok to daisy chain those and homerun that zone. Electrically it does not matter but if you homerun you have more flexibilty.

And for my last question, 2 or 4 wire smokes?

Do a search on that, many threads. Bottom line - personal preference. 2 wire only gives you 1 zone and daisy chained. 4 wire gives you individual zones and homerun. I think 'majority' go with 4 wire in a large or multistory home. But you also need an EOL supervision relay and that can add up on alot of individual zones. So it all depends on whether you need the granularity of know which smoke went off without looking at the LEDs.

So for a small home (2000 sq ft) 2 wire smokes may not be a bad thing? Concerning the door contacts zone, do you loop out and then bring the 2 wire back into the panel or just put the resistor at the last contact?

 

[hockeypuck]

?
EOL's do not belong in the panel. I'm a 2 wire smoke guy. I agree with BSR on the Caddx, and I have programmed them.

Thank you for your reply. I am not trying to be a smart alec here, but is this personal preference or just industry standard? So then you have to find a window sill to put the resistor under?

 

[Steve]

So for a small home (2000 sq ft) 2 wire smokes may not be a bad thing? Concerning the door contacts zone, do you loop out and then bring the 2 wire back into the panel or just put the resistor at the last contact?

2 wire smokes should be ok, you just need to make sure to use smokes that are compatible with the panel you choose. I use System Sensors on the M1.

The EOL goes on the last contact, hence END of line But most will argue the need for them in a humble residence.

 

[upstatemike]

Do the pros crip or solder the splices for door and window contacts? Also do you run 4wire or 2 wire for simple contacts? It seems like most run 4 so they can have a spare or put eol resistor back in the panel? Do you run homeruns for each contact or "daisy chain" them? And for my last question, 2 or 4 wire smokes?
Thank you, Hockeypuck.

One more thing, is Caddx a decent low cost security board?

I don't know about the pros but I crimp everything. Splice is automatically insulated and I have never had a crimp connection failure.

2 wire is the cheapest. Daisy chain the devices in the same zone but home run if you think you will want to break a zone out into multiple zones in the future. Always home-run doors, motion detectors and glass break detectors.

EOL resistors should go at the end of the line UNLESS you plan to add on to a zone at some future time in which case the panel IS the end of the line (of the return wire that will feed the future expansion of the zone.)

Most residential panels limit 2-wire smokes to just a couple of zones. I originally went with 2-wire and now face the conversion of 30 smoke detectors to 4-wire when I move from a dedicated fire panel to the M1.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Also, if you want an easy way to have the EOL resistors on your Elk, use the GRI 7147 door/window contacts. They have the proper resisor already built into them.

 

[hockeypuck]

Also, if you want an easy way to have the EOL resistors on your Elk, use the GRI 7147 door/window contacts. They have the proper resisor already built into them.

Do all security boards require end of line resistors on their zones or is it just the elk product?
Thank you for all your great answers. I really do appreciate you helping a dolt out.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

I don't think any of them require it. Most professional installers do install them though. I think it may be a requirement for UL.

The EOL resistors will tell you whether or not a wire has been cut.

I didn't install them in my house because I thought it was a pretty low probability. If I were going to do it over again, I probably would since GRI has made it so easy now. The sensors are only a little more money.

 

[rfdesq]

Do all security boards require end of line resistors on their zones or is it just the elk product?
Thank you for all your great answers. I really do appreciate you helping a dolt out.

First of all, you're not a dolt. I like your questions and I was asking them 30 years ago. Here is a good primer on EOL http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry59477. The ELK M1 doesn't require them and most panels can be configured to either use them or not. I crimp and I especially like ELK Beans. I would be afraid to have someone solder in the rafters of a new stick framed home. I can smell the smoke now. I have not had a failure due to a crimp connection.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Here is a short explanation of what an EOL zone (providing the reisitor is at the END of the Line and not in the panel) will give you. It will setup a voltage between a range that will register a non-violated zone. For the Elk this zone will be somewhere between 4 and 8 volts (may not be exactly that, but you will get the idea).

When the zone opens (door/window opened for instance) the voltage will be above 8 volts and register as a violated zone. If someone tries to thwart the system by placing a "short" (via wire jumper) on the wiring between the panel and the sensor the voltage will drop below 4 volts and register as a violation (again as long as the resistor is AT the sensor).

Also, if the wiring between the panel and the sensor/resistor shorts out, the voltage will drop below 4 volts and the panel will register this as a violation.

For the non-EOL zone there is no zone, only very high and (near) zero volts. When the voltage crosses a threshold (I think it's still eight volts in the Elk) the zone will show violated. Anything less than this voltage will show normal. If the wiring shorts out you will never know it because there is no "lower" voltage threshold as in the EOL zone.

So if one would not expect a problem with the wiring (which shouldn't happen using proper installation techniques) and they don't want to protect against someone chipping out a section of their walls to try to thart the system (short wire between panel and sensor), you (in my non-professional opinion) don't need EOL zones.

One advantage an EOL zone gives you is a larger voltage range between violated and secured zone (since there is no lower window) and would be more immune to any noise in the system.

I hope the above was explained correctly, if not, please let know so I can edit/correct it.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I know it's a widely accepted practice, but I was always taught that you should never use crimp connections on solid wire/components, only stranded.

I will now duck as the EOL resistors are thrown at me by the installers out there!

 

[rfdesq]

I know it's a widely accepted practice, but I was always taught that you should never use crimp connections on solid wire/components, only stranded.

I will now duck as the EOL resistors are thrown at me by the installers out there!

As I gather my EOL resistors to throw at you here is information on Scotchlock connectors:

UR2 The UR2 Connector accepts any two or three solid copper conductor combinations of 19-26 AWG (0.9 mm- 0.4 mm) air core or filled cable with a maximum insulation O.D. of 0.82". The wires joined can be of different wire gauges. 19-26 AWG, Red

Solid wire with ELK B connectors has never been a problem.