Noob questions

[DeLicious]

I know there have been other people to post Noob questions, but I thought I'd take my shot as well.

First of all, I visited Automated Outlet yesterday, and I want to thank Martin and Jim for taking the time to talk to me. Based on their suggestions, I'm looking into UPB. However, at this point, I'm still a little unsure of how things are supposed to work.

I realize UPB is straightforward for lighting control. All I have seen for UPB in catalogs and on the internet is lighting controls. How does one incorporate PIR motion detectors into a UPB network? I haven't seen any that are specifically designed for UPB like there are for X10 (and recently, ZWave). Does this require a hardware controller?

Also possibly of note to some of you, I am blogging my experience as a new home automator at Home Automation Starter Blog. This will be of particular interest, perhaps, to marketing people to see the beginning user experiences of someone new to home automation, and the thought process that I have been through based on the limited amount of information available to me (X10 is great! oh, it's not?? Insteon is great! Oh, maybe not?? what do i do???)

Although obviously there's only one actual question in this post, I guess I'll use this forum for other questions that might pop into my head. It might be worth the time and effort at some point to put together an overview of the existing technologies and a brief how-to (preferrably from an objective source) of the decision making process (i.e., do you have neutral wires in your house?) especially for new people like me that would ease the transition into the home automation industry.

 

[Steve]

Welcome to CocoonTech! You have a yummy name I'm jealous, I wish I could just walk into AO anytime. Anyway, naturally I agree on the UPB decision as that was my protocol of choice as well. In regard to your motions, or glass breaks, or whatever, well you are right, there are no UPB based ones. Things like PIRs would be very difficult to locate where there is AC power, or have to run power to them. These device run on low voltage (12V). They would typically wire into your alarm or HA panel (assuming they are recommending an Elk M1 to you also). If you truly need wireless, then I would use Caddx/ITI as they are very reliable and supervised (the panel makes sure they are still there and working). The X10 PIR's I believe are wireless as well, but work with the W800 which is not supervised. So in summary I would use wired PIR's first, Caddx second and W800 last (assuming for security). UPB is pretty much for your powerline controlled stuff like lighting, appliance control, outlets, etc.

 

[Rupp]

DeLicious,
Again welcome. Most protocols (Z-Wave, UPB, Insteon, X10, etc.) need a "gluing" application or hardware controller to actually "automated" them. Z-Wave being sort of the exception in that the Z-Wave remote has a limited amount of built in security (timing) ability. Just as an example - I use HomeSeer (as the gluing application) with X10, Z-Wave, UPB, and Insteon all at once. This way I can get the best of all protocols and fill the blanks left in one with another. This way I could use the Z-Wave motion sensors to turn on my UPB (or any other) switch or an X10 wireless motion sensor to control my Insteon "evening scene".

 

[RandyKnight]

Welcome aboard. Warning ... as my order history at AO can attest, living where you can drop in can be a bad thing.

Did Martin and Jim mention NTHAUG (North Texas Home Automation Users Group) to you? Check out the forum in Local User Groups.

Follow up question. If so, are you coming to my wiring party Saturday?

 

[DeLicious]

Steve and Rupp, thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be dropping the money on a hardware controller just yet; and yes, they did recommend the M1. I believe a software solution as Rupp suggested is probably more "right" for me now in my present situation. Is HomeSeer the only software that can work in multiple protocols like this, or will some such as HAL be able to "glue" these together as well?

Randy, I have already contact HarleyDude (at least, I think that's who it was) to join the NTHAUG, but haven't heard back from him. Martin mentioned that there was going to be some wiring going on this Saturday, but didn't give me details about where or when to meet. Where should I expect to find those details?

 

[RandyKnight]

Randy, I have already contact HarleyDude (at least, I think that's who it was) to join the NTHAUG, but haven't heard back from him. Martin mentioned that there was going to be some wiring going on this Saturday, but didn't give me details about where or when to meet. Where should I expect to find those details?

Rick (HarleyDude) should be sending out an email. If you don't hear from him and want to participate, give me a call at 469-774-4196.

Also, I just posted some details in the NTHAUG forum here on CocoonTech.

 

[Steve]

Steve and Rupp, thanks for the info. I don't think I'll be dropping the money on a hardware controller just yet; and yes, they did recommend the M1. I believe a software solution as Rupp suggested is probably more "right" for me now in my present situation. Is HomeSeer the only software that can work in multiple protocols like this, or will some such as HAL be able to "glue" these together as well?

Do you have or are you planning on getting a security system? Are the PIR's for security, automation or both? If have an existing alarm panel it may be supported by software. There are many software packages that can do this - HAL, Homeseer, Powerhome, etc. as well as some open source and Linux ones. You really need to define what your current and planned needs/wants are. Sometimes it is better to spend a little more up front and grow into it then buy stuff that will have to be replaced later.

 

[DeLicious]

I do have an existing alarm system in my house, but it's not monitored (don't tell anyone where I live!). In fact, it was installed by the previous owners (we bought our house about 4 months ago) and we don't even know how to use it (arm it, change the code, anything). You think there's a possibility that a software package could interact with the existing home security system? That would be excellent. I'll check the model number when I get home.

For now, I was hoping the PIR's would be for automation only.

 

[elcano]

For now, I was hoping the PIR's would be for automation only.

The best sensors for automation are hardwired or X10. X10 is assuming that you dont have special needs (ceiling sensor, Pet inmune, dual technology). Nothing beats the assortment of hardwired sensors.

Caddx wireless is best for security. As Steve said, they are secure because they are supervised. The problem is that they only send movement signals every three minutes, to save batteries. So, while it meets the security purpose you will not be able to detect every single movement.

 

[DeLicious]

I checked the existing alarm system in my house, and it looks pretty old. The interface panel inside my house has a brand name DSC on it, and a sticker on the bottom that says AF-5577.

The security box with the actual wiring says FBII (or something equally cryptic), and the wiring diagram says STAR XL 4600.

Is any of this salvaglable, or only the sensors?

 

[Steve]

Not sure why there are 2 panels, but if you have a XL4600 then according to the manual it does not look like there is a serial port option. So it looks like there will be little to no integration with it.

 

[Madcodger]

I do have an existing alarm system in my house, but it's not monitored (don't tell anyone where I live!). In fact, it was installed by the previous owners (we bought our house about 4 months ago) and we don't even know how to use it (arm it, change the code, anything). You think there's a possibility that a software package could interact with the existing home security system? That would be excellent. I'll check the model number when I get home.

For now, I was hoping the PIR's would be for automation only.

First, if you live near Martin and Jim it's got to be like being a kid that lives over a candy store run by Santa. I'd be broke, but happy as a clam. They really are some of the best at customer service for any industry.

As for integrating an existing alarm system, I tried to do this for about a year with an Ademco panel and had middling success at best. NOT worth it by a long shot, in my opinion. You may also have problems getting your insurer to approve a discount for the system because you "altered" it, and of course it would be much worse to find this out during a claims process. I ended up buying an Elk M1 Gold based largely on recommendations from this and the HS board, and I couldn't be happier. 8th wonder of the world candidate, frankly, and rock solid dependable.

I agree with the other posts about hardwired sensors, too, although I have excellent results from my X10 RF devices and a W800. Do NOT use X10 sensors over the powerline via one of those plugin receivers with the telescoping antenna, that retransmits X10 over the powerline. A recipe for an unreliable system! Also, I've been very happy with Caddx wireless for some smoke detectors I added to the Elk, although thankfully I've had no real world tests.

Good luck, and remember - this stuff is incredibly addictive.

 

[DeLicious]

For continuity purposes, it should be noted that this discussion has been moved to UPB First Impressions

 

[DeLicious]

I checked the existing alarm system in my house, and it looks pretty old. The interface panel inside my house has a brand name DSC on it, and a sticker on the bottom that says AF-5577.

The security box with the actual wiring says FBII (or something equally cryptic), and the wiring diagram says STAR XL 4600.

Is any of this salvaglable, or only the sensors?

okay, file this under Adam is an idiot, but it looks like the alarm system that i referenced before is not in use at all!!! it appears to be sitting dormant in the garage.

i found a couple of things hanging on walls around the house that are labelled BGE-9100 dual switches by Blue Grass Electronics, but lord knows what they do (or ever did). they appear to be dormant as well.

what i did find in my laundry room (i missed it before... very inconspicuous, which i guess means good installation) is another alarm system! i only found it because i was looking at my existing motion detector and trying to find out what kind it was and where the wires went.

the alarm system looks to be a DSC PC-1550. inside the panel, there is a Visonic Model WR-300 that appears to have an antenna exiting from the metal box, presumably for wireless control. the interface panel i mentioned before DSC AF-5577 is probably a wireless controller of some sort.

the PIR module had very few markings on it, and the only distinguishing thing i could get off of it that looks like a serial number is ABS02479, although it does say DSC on it as well. it looks like this picture, so it's likely a DSC Bravo3 or Bravo300DP

the panel appears to be 6-zone capable, although it is only using 3 (the motion detector and some door sensors, although some may be wireless, i can't tell)

is any of this salvageable?

 

[DeLicious]

I found the manual for the PC-1550 here, but it also says nothing about a serial interface, so I probably won't be able to communicate with it at all.

however, i couldn't find any information about resetting the master code so that i can actually make the system usable in the very least... the previous owners neglected to leave us any information on the system including how to use it or what the codes might be. any ideas on that?