Novice needs help

[syous]

First, thanks in advance for your help.
I have come to love this forum but, since there is so much info being passed around, it has made me a little confused. I am just starting to get into Home automation and would like to do the following:

1. Simple lighting control. Preset scenes, on/off schedule when out.
2. Control home theater equipment in family room.
3. Control sprinkler systems.
4. Ability to connect while away using a browser.
5. Use a touchpanel screen in central location and remote in family room.
6. Would like the family room remote to be touchpanel(tablet PC even)
and able to display family pictures when not in use as a remote.
7. Future link/control of thermostats.
8. Future ability for audio/video distribution.

I am thinking about using Homeseer software. Here is where my questions/confusion starts:


A. Is Homeseer a good choice?
B. Do I use Zwave, X10 or do both (even Insteon)? I want to use zwave
for lighting because of what I have read about x10 issues but, when it
comes to sprinkler control and IR transmitions, I do not know if it can
be done just using zwave? I have read about using an ocelot unit for
IR and I understand that it uses x10. Is that correct? Other options?
C. What is the difference between mainlobby and Maestro interfaces?
They are both offered on the HS web page and I am not sure if I will
need one or both? I am thinking about Mainlobby but wanted to make
sure.
D. Saw the thread about the controllers. If I use sfwr control with HS why
would I need a smart controller? This may be (OK, definitely is) a
dumb question from someone who is just starting to understand
things.
E. Am I restricted to one touch panel screen per PC? Do I have to add
more PCs latter if I want to add more displays? If not, will they all be
the same or can different screens be accessed from different units at
the same time? I am thinking about 15†displays from Dell.
F. What is the best way to cable for these displays?
G. How do I control sprinklers? What hardware do I need?
H. If I need an ocelot unit for sending IR commands to A/V equipment in
family room, where does the unit have to be? The PC running HS
software will be in a closet behind the wall where the touchpanel will be
installed so no need to run long cables for the display. However, I
think this will cause a problem when it comes to the ocelot unit.
I. Finally, what do you recommend for the remote control? Will I have to
use a tablet PC so I can access the HS functions through a browser or
can those functions be accessed through a standard remote with IR
and RF? I was thinking about the MX3000 but don’t think I can get
pictures to show on it’s screen when not in use. Now I am looking at
the fujitsu 3500. This only after I read a lot of negative reviews about
Ipronto.

Thanks again for all your help and reading through such a long list.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Welcome to CocoonTech!

One question that should get answered first. What is your target budget for all of this stuff?

 

[syous]

Good question. I forgot all about Price.
Well, I have budgeted for the homeseer zwave startup kit, 5 pack of light switches, the touchpanel screen and a PC. Aside from this, I have around 2k for the ocelot, remote and other misc items that I may need. If that is not enough, I will have to ask my boss (my wife is realy sweet) for a little more.

 

[Squintz]

A. Is Homeseer a good choice?

HomeSeer is a nice product but you really need to compare products before you make your decision. To put it bluntly I would have to recommend CQC(CharmedQuark.com) but without first warning you that the learning curve for CQC is a little bigger than HomeSeer. The reason I would recommend CQC over homeseer is because CQC comes at a full package price of $315. This means that any upgrades between the current 1.6 version and version 2.0 which is not even thought of yet will be free of charge. Also, CQC natively support touchscreen interfaces whereas HomeSeer requires you to purchase additional software such as MainLobby and then depending on which software you purchase you may also have to purchase a plug-in from HomeSeer so that HomeSeer can interact with that software. So if you run into a problem you now have at best 2 differnt people to contact about the problem and possibly even 3 people. CQC has the ability to communicate with other software as does HS but in this particular case it does not have to because TouchScreen interfaces are a big focus for the CQC developer. Keep in mind that many HomeSeer plug-is cost about $60. This does not stop you from writing your own plug-ins and scripts to do the same job. So if you are a programmer this is not really a huge issue.

B. Do I use Zwave, X10 or do both (even Insteon)?

As always this is only my opinion and will be differnt than many others. If you are just getting started then I would say experiment with x10 first. It is cheap and won't hurt your pockets too much. By playing with x10 you will get the feeling for what Home Automation is all about. From there I would have to recommend you going with z-wave. Take a look at the "mega poll" that Electron posted a few days ago. 113 people as of now have voted and Z-wave seems to be doing pretty good. I personally use z-wave and love it. It does have its limitations but those are slowly being worked out. Z-wave is a new technology and is risky but maybe less risky than Insteon and UPB. With x10 you pretty much know what you are getting into. x10 has issues but for the price you can't really complain too much. Z-wave is said to have a lot of manufactures coming out with new products this year. Chris Walker is the guy to talk to if you want the inside scoop on those products.

C. What is the difference between mainlobby and Maestro interfaces?

Sorry, I can't help you here. I got rid of HomeSeer about a year ago and have not kept up with too much. Others should be able to help.

D. Saw the thread about the controllers. If I use sfwr control with HS why
would I need a smart controller?

I'm not sure what you mean by smart controllers. My guess is that your a refering to products like the Ocelot and Elk. The software such as CQC and HS are really to extend the capabilities of these controllers. You don't really need software to control the hardware. Hardware such as the elk is pretty darn smart and can allow you to do most of what HS and CQC can. It's when you want to add touch screen interfaces and video feeds ect to your setup that Software comes into play.

E. Am I restricted to one touch panel screen per PC? Do I have to add more PCs latter if I want to add more displays? If not, will they all be
the same or can different screens be accessed from different units at
the same time? I am thinking about 15†displays from Dell.

This really depends on the computers hardware. Most computers now days come with a dual monitor video card which would allow you to run atleast two touch screens from one PC. However, there are many options out there that would allow you to run multiple touchscreens from one PC. This is usually not an issue for the software that you are using. It usually has to do with what your computer supports. Check out http://www.touchtronix.com/ (used to be redradio if you are searching cocoon) and http://www.charmedquark.com/Web/Learn/Devi...eous/Rad-IO.htm for an example of available hardware.

F. What is the best way to cable for these displays?

That depends and we will be able to help you further when you decide what products you are going with.

G. How do I control sprinklers? What hardware do I need?

There are many choices but Rain8 seems to be a very popular choice. Check out automatedoutlet.com for the Rain8 and others. This is supported by both CQC and HomeSeer.

H. If I need an ocelot unit for sending IR commands to A/V equipment in
family room, where does the unit have to be? The PC running HS
software will be in a closet behind the wall where the touchpanel will be
installed so no need to run long cables for the display. However, I
think this will cause a problem when it comes to the ocelot unit.

Check out the USB-UIRT for IR distribution. Also, do a search on cocoon for IR Distribution and I am sure you will find some pretty in depth threads about the topic. The ocelot might be overkill for IR distribution expecially if you plan on getting an Elk system which is the new hot controller now days.

I. Finally, what do you recommend for the remote control? Will I have to
use a tablet PC so I can access the HS functions through a browser or
can those functions be accessed through a standard remote with IR
and RF? I was thinking about the MX3000 but don’t think I can get
pictures to show on it’s screen when not in use. Now I am looking at
the fujitsu 3500. This only after I read a lot of negative reviews about
Ipronto.

Once you get into the DIY automation world you will want to be able to control everything with everything else. For lights I like to use motion detectors and others are using floor sensors. For Audio/Video equipment I like to use a single universal remote in conjunction with the USB-UIRT and CQC. One press of a button can trigger a macro which can turn the lights down. Turn the projector on and set the equipment to the way it needs to be set. Table top touchscreen might also be nice but I do not have any as of now. You basically need to start with what you can afford and then add to it when your wife allows

Hope I helped a little.

 

[IVB]

Squintz did the detail thing, i'll give you my hardware overview. It's all pretty cost-conscious, just built up over time.

I do all of that except lighting, a little more other stuff too. I'll probably put in RadioRA in 6-ish months as I'm a little dubious of power-line protocols, and am looking for something more WAF than zWave.

I use:
- CQC as the Homeautomation & hometheater automation engine (I prefer a single vendor for both back-end & front-end, so I have "1 throat to choke" if anything fails)
- RAIN8NET as the irrigation
- Aprilaire 8870 as the HVAC
- Xantech ZPR68, and various amps and a Denon3805 for whole house audio/video
- Cingular 8125 PDA cellphone for out-of-house control
- Fujitsu 3400 (2 of them) for tablet/touchscreen control
- BlueTooth mouse for control in HT room (wife decided it's faster and more intuitive than a remote - go figure)
- MX850 RF/IR remote for random nit-level HomeTheater control that I don't want to use 3400's for. [ie turn volume up/down]
- Elk M1G for automation panel/security/fire&theft/etc
- Will likely get an Extron, Neothings, or Autopatch for whole-house HDTV distro once I get my 2nd HDTV. I'll probably slap a cheap $50 DAC in front of those current 2ch amps so I can continue to distribute a digital signal, let each room resolve to whatever # of speakers I have in there.

Here's a thread with my screenshots.

 

[syous]

Thanks so much squints and ivb. It seems that CQC is more recommended than HS. I checked out their web page and I did not like the following: 1. Their web pages did not have as much information as I would have liked and 2. it seems that if I buy direct and not through a reseller, the only support I would have is through forums like this. I am not sure about HS but I did not like the fact that I can not call someone direct if I needed.

Having said that, it seems that CQC is a better option.

Again, I appreciate all your input. Hopefully I will be posting new "how to" questions on CQC subjects soon so please keep up the help.

syous

 

[IVB]

You should lurk on the CQC forums for a while; we're constantly helping folks through both the CQC and non-CQC part of their setup. Home Automation/Home Theater automation is quite a complex subject area, as you've left the PC-only land behind and now need to control external devices. If we can speed folks through the learning curve we went through, so much the better.

 

[Dean Roddey]

1. Their web pages did not have as much information as I would have liked and

There is actually a lot of information on the web site. It's just not up front, becasue we find that most people will just become overwhelmed and go away, assuming it's way too complicated for them. Under the Learn tab there is a huge amount of info.

2. it seems that if I buy direct and not through a reseller, the only support I would have is through forums like this. I

Support for the DIY product is on the support forum. I think that you will find out that our support forum is better than 99% of companies, where you can call and speak with someone who knows basically nothing at all in most cases. If you read the suppot forum a bit, you will not find a single post in which someone is complaining that they are not getting the information they need, or waited very long at all for an answer, because everyone is very helpful and questions are answered quickly.

 

[IVB]

I am not sure about HS but I did not like the fact that I can not call someone direct if I needed.

Keep in mind that in the 10 months I've owned CQC, i've never had to wait for more than 2 hours for the right answer. Granted that's no promise moving forward, but i'm in tears trying to get data about other products right now, and i swear I can call people and get the "hmm, good question" type response, but not a real answer.

There's enough folks that hawk that forum that within 12 hours, you'll have replies not just from Dean, but from 3-6 other folks as well. If you don't believe me, check out the current forum, see what the lagtime is between questions and answers, even those that have nothing to do with CQC.

 

[Rupp]

Thanks so much squints and ivb. It seems that CQC is more recommended than HS. I checked out their web page and I did not like the following: 1. Their web pages did not have as much information as I would have liked and 2. it seems that if I buy direct and not through a reseller, the only support I would have is through forums like this. I am not sure about HS but I did not like the fact that I can not call someone direct if I needed.

Having said that, it seems that CQC is a better option.

Again, I appreciate all your input. Hopefully I will be posting new "how to" questions on CQC subjects soon so please keep up the help.

syous

Syous,
Don't be mislead. Your posting on a forum that is frequented by some users that have had bad experiences with the HomeSeer team. Don't let one bulletin board user base make up your mind on the best HA package for you. Spend some time at each of the forums and see which is the more versatile product. See which one offers more options has more users and offers more help. I'm a long time HomeSeer user and I will tell you there is not a more versatile HA package available. There are hundreds of plugins that are paid and free that interface with almost anything you can imagine.
As far as support goes HomeSeer has a help desk system that is free for all users. Add this to the ~14,000 bulletin board members world wide and you have a very established support system. I work part time for HomeSeer on the help desk so I know first hand of the level of support. So do your home work and then make an informed decision.

 

[electron]

Actually, an independant forum like this gives you a better picture of what really is going on, rather than going to the manufacture's site where bad posts/threads might be deleted or hidden.

Don't let one bulletin board user base make up your mind on the best HA package for you

In this case, that one site is CT, which happens to be the biggest, and less biased HA community (just look at the wide scope of products people are using here) out there.

That said, I am surprised not more people have recommended Homeseer, but I would assume this is because most people are on vacation right now.

I do recommend checking out the manufacture's forums, just to get an idea of what the typical problems are.

This is all IMO of course.

 

[Steve]

Z-wave is a new technology and is risky but maybe less risky than Insteon and UPB.

Squintz, Aside from all the previously hashed opinions about the technologies, can you explain why you think Zwave is less risky than UPB? I'm interested in your thoughts on this because I would tend to think an already established technology would be less risky than something still 'new'?

Don't be mislead. Your posting on a forum that is frequented by some users that have had bad experiences with the HomeSeer team. Don't let one bulletin board user base make up your mind on the best HA package for you.

I agree and disagree. The second part is absolutely right. One users opinion should not influence anothers buying decision. (see next section for why I disagree)

I'm a long time HomeSeer user and I will tell you there is not a more versatile HA package available.

Well? Which is it? Isn't this 1 user misleading someone? Have you tried CQC? Mainlobby? HAL? Netremote/Girder? Powerhome? Please, tell, us, why is there not a more versatile HA package available? I am not making any comments about products in this thread, but please, do not tell people not to be mislead by one user and then tell them HS is the best because of YOUR opinion. I can probably tell you at least one person that thinks each of the above packages is THE most versatile HA program base on their experience and needs.

The bottom line is there is no 'best'. The best for one person may not be the best for somebody else. People are passionate about their choices and will obviously recommend and defend their choice but the fact is the intelligent person must read thru all of the opinions and at the end of the day do their own trials and make their own personal decision.

 

[Rupp]

Good points all Steve. I'm just trying to offer the "other side" and did back it up with a few points. BTW yes I have tried MainLobby? HAL? Netremote/Girder? and Powerhome and I can tell you none of these can touch HomeSeer. MainLobby is a good addition to HomeSeer for a nice GUI though. To really know this though you have to try all of them and compare.

Also if you reread my original post I never said "one user" but rather "one bulletin board user base" BIG difference.

 

[Steve]

Ok, I'll give you that (missed that 4 letter word 'base') but the concept is the same. In previous thread you said 'a few posts', so I'm sure some where you said single user to complete the progression from user to few posts to BBS.

The fact remains that an intelligent user needs to look at everthing and make up their own mind and the thing that honestly bugs me is that while Cocoontech IMHO is THE best, most informative, non biased, most respected HA forum on the web (and I have read alot of them) lately there have been alot of posts from people who work for various companies putting out claims 'selling' their companies products by claiming they are the best. I really would like to see people simply state facts or cleary state as I did above that things are simply their opinion, as educated as it may be. But all this XYZ product is the best stuff is really getting old and diluting what I think (opinion) is the best HA forum and best and most friendly HA diy'ers and professionals.

 

[upstatemike]

...the thing that honestly bugs me is that while Cocoontech IMHO is THE best, most informative, non biased, most respected HA forum on the web (and I have read alot of them) lately there have been alot of posts from people who work for various companies putting out claims 'selling' their companies products by claiming they are the best...

I hear what you are saying but I'm not sure I completely agree with you on this. While I rarely have strong opinions on things myself, I find it useful when others take a strong position on something and in the process of defending that position end up providing a lot of good information. Even saying "mine is best" is helpful if it includes some thinking points on why I should believe it. On the whole I would rather have representatives of the various products participating in discussions and pushing their biased view than not. That way, if general opinion starts to get lopsided one way or another, there will always be at least one fanatic to offer an alternative view.