OnQ structured wiring product

[RandyKnight]

Anybody have experience with the OnQ structured wiring enclosure and modules, etc. I am leaning towards OnQ ALC for lighting control and their Cat5 based Intercom, cameras, and whole house audio (distributed amplifier) looks good. And limiting the number of vendors' product to integrate is always good.

Curious as to experience with their stuff though.

 

[Captain Caveman]

On-q cameras are a simple way to go. The Lyriq systems are nice if you are on a budget but if you can swing it then consider other systems such as Nuvo and Russound that can interface to HA controllers.

ALC lighting seems like a good low budget hardwired lighting solution, but from what I read on Elk's documentation you may have limited functionality if you use Elk for control. Make sure you read the documentation so you know what to expect.

Also take a look at the "Doorbell Fon" product for intercom, besides it being an inexpensive and easy solution I think it's cool to have the phones ring when someone pushes the doorbell, and talk to your guest from any phone in the house. Not only that but you could have it call your cell phone plus integrate it with your HA system.

Limiting the products to a certain vendor will limit your ablitiy to do what you want. As you are well aware there is no all-in-one solution.

 

[electriclight]

I have not used the OnQ product(s), they appeer similar to the Leviton structured wiring panels which I have used and like. The frustrating thing about all of the structured wiring panels is that there is just not enough room for real world equipment (phone systems, routers hubs, RF/Video distribution) Yes, it can be stuffed in but what a mess!

You have a good size installation based on the plans that I saw this AM. You might want to consider using discrete termination hardware (M66 bolcks and CAT5/6 patch panels) mounted to a plywood backboard. This can be done in a very neat fashion and provides the space/access needed for the active components. I have done this in several large installs and been happy with the results. Your server room would be an ideal location for this.

For intercom functions you may want to look at (if you have not already) the Panasonic KX-TA824 phone system.

 

[upstatemike]

You might want to consider using discrete termination hardware (M66 bolcks and CAT5/6 patch panels) mounted to a plywood backboard.

I have to agree. I use 66 blocks for my Panasonic phone system as well as for RS232 and RS485 serial runs. Also all my hard wired automation devices terminate on these blocks (motion detectors, contacts, relays, etc). Makes for a very neat and versatile installation.

 

[RandyKnight]

Thought I'd combine my responses to the replies above in one post:

Structured wiring cans vs. wasll mounted plywood:
My plan all along was to bring everything into punchdown blocks mounted on the wall, then go from there to the cans as necessary. Don't I still need a can or two to put the electronics in though? Most of the HA modules seem to be designed for sw cans. Can you mount them directly as well?

Also, I plan on having a 19" rack in the server room anyway, where I will mount the switches, servers, etc. So it might make sense to just put 19" rack mounted patch panels there for most of the phone/data stuff. Not sure if a rack mounted coax is available for RG6. Have to look into that.

The other thing I noticed, On-Q has a rack mounted drawer made for their sturctured wiring modules. Maybe I could do that and forgo the cans all together?

ALC and Elk:
Guess I need to do some more research on Elk / ALC integration. As I don't have a n Elk yet, where would be the place to go to find out the details on that?

Intercom:
For some reason a home phone system / PBX based solution just doesn't appeal to me. We just don't use the phone that much. I'd rather just distribute voice via Cat5 drops and have plain old phones. Plus we like the idea of a wall mounted dedicated intercom better than via phones. I liked the greyfox intercom due to the Cat5 connectivity.

Whole house audio:
Why wouldn't the lyriq / onq system integrate with the HA controller? What do Nuvo and Russound, etc. offer that this one does not? Again, I liked the simple Cat5 distribution to each volume control, adding in a local source in certain rooms. Aslo, the OnQ audio system has an intercom interrupt module, which I thought was nice.

But I'm interested in any/all suggestions as to better solutions. Right now, budet is not too much of a concern as we're just trying to get the pre-wire plan right ... choosing everntual hardware to install seems to be part of that.


Regardiny my multple vendor comment, what I said was I wanted to combine products from as few vendors as practical. Obviously there is no one vendor who can do it all, but the fewer vendors' products you have to integrate, the better IMO.

Appreciate any and all input.

 

[Steve]

I spoke with OnQ for a while at Ehx and looked at the Lyriq system. It all depends what you want in a whole house system. The Lyriq is more like an A-Bus system where you run cat5 to the amplified keypads and speaker wire from the keypad to speakers. There really is no easy way to use these with an HA controller. The Lyriq system was designed for homebuilders to install in their tract homes. It ws a very nice system for what it is and the integration with the intercom was also nice. But just remember it is 'A-Bus like' and not a multisource/zone system like the Russound or Nuvo stuff. I would recommend it over many of the manufactures A-Bus systems based on what I saw assuming that is what you are looking for.

 

[electriclight]

Using a plywood backboard I have not had the need for the S/W cans. The Video/RF and IR (Channel Vision/Xantech) distribution components can be mounted directly to the back board. I mount the active components like the phone system and network devices to the backboard directly or on adjustable shelves built near the termination hardware.

Regarding using the phone system for an intercom; regardless of the time spent on outside phone calls the ability to directly reach a person in a given room is nice. The Panasonic system works with plain old telephones. It also integrates nicely with the Russound CAV6.6 whole house audio system to support whole house paging.

For whole house audio I have used the CAV6.6 system because it scales from 6 to 36 zones (in 6 zone increments). It also has good support for IR distribution back to the source components.

 

[Spanky]

The M1 supports the ALC lighting system. ON, OFF, Dim setting, scenes, status feedback to the M1 for RULES. ALC is a great hardwired lighting system with the M1. What else do you want?


Next M1 software release will give you lighting dim level control from the keypads.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Using a plywood backboard I have not had the need for the S/W cans.

Yeah, for that matter you can nail it to a tree too in your backyard if you protect it from the rain....

Seriously though, think about what you want your end product to look like. Any method will technically work (cans, rack, plywood, tree).

Enough said.

 

[RandyKnight]

Sounds like I should just go for the plywood wall mount and my 19" rack and between the two should be able to do whatever I need to.

Also sounds like I need to dig into a higher end whole house audio system. I like the sounds of the Cav 6.6. Which is better for integration with Elk and/or other sources for HA stuff?

 

[RandyKnight]

Using a plywood backboard I have not had the need for the S/W cans.

Yeah, for that matter you can nail it to a tree too in your backyard if you protect it from the rain....

Seriously though, think about what you want your end product to look like. Any method will technically work (cans, rack, plywood, tree).

Enough said.

Martin, I'm thinking my goal should be something that looks about like the closet in the house we were at Saturday don't you think?

Seriously, I hear you. But at the same time since this is to be installed in a dedicated server rooom, I'm more concerned about functionality, ability to switch things out, etc. than aesthetics.
SW Cans are great for installs in a coat closet, master bedroom closet, etc. But since I'll have a dedicated room, it seems like a more "commercial" style of installation might make more sense.

 

[Captain Caveman]

The M1 supports the ALC lighting system. ON, OFF, Dim setting, scenes, status feedback to the M1 for RULES. ALC is a great hardwired lighting system with the M1. What else do you want?


Next M1 software release will give you lighting dim level control from the keypads.

Not sure if this would be a problem but the M1XSP documentation states that it only supports ALC 4 button scene switches on ALC branch 1.

The M1XSP can control up to 124 individually addressable ALC devices. If I need to control more (not that I have a need) do I simply add another M1XSP?

If using the ELK RM software will one be able to see the status of an ALC device?

 

[Captain Caveman]

ALC...One more question

The Elk M1XSP doc states that it can do 4 virtual scenes. The On-Q Home Lighting Controller states that it can do 64 scenes, are virtual scenes different than regular scenes? If not then I think that four is not enough.

 

[royalj7]

I guess I'll be putting a vote in for the enclosure approach. I used OnQ in a fairly big install a year back in it did pretty good. I like Leviton/Channel Vision modules better, but that's just personal preference. I did the network/phone/security in on 42" can, and the audio and video in another. Looked neat and professional, was easy to switch drop locations and troubleshoot problems, etc. There are also expansion brackets that you can use to fit some of the larger pieces of electronics in the can.

I would also go with something other than Abus, which the Lyria system is even though it is not compatible with other Abus systems, for the whole house audio because you have virtually no control over it via HA. Russound makes a couple products other than their flagship CAV6.6 that might be worthwhile to look into. CAM and CAA come to mind. Also, Xantech makes a couple whole home audio systems that are competitively priced.

My .02. Good luck and let us know how it's going.

--Jamie

 

[upstatemike]

Seriously, I hear you. But at the same time since this is to be installed in a dedicated server rooom, I'm more concerned about functionality, ability to switch things out, etc. than aesthetics.
SW Cans are great for installs in a coat closet, master bedroom closet, etc. But since I'll have a dedicated room, it seems like a more "commercial" style of installation might make more sense.

I have to agree. The problem with cans is they tend to restrict your flexibility and room for growth. I will commonly reassign a cat-5 wire from being a phone extension for example, to being a serial line on 2 pairs and a motion detector feed on the other two. very easy to recross with 66 blocks... not so easy to split pairs with patch panels.

I have some 25pair cables connecting the basement to the attic that I installed in 1984 that are still in use today. Over the years I have reassigned the pairs many times as my needs have changed.

I also feel that people are unrealistic in the amount of space they are willing to dedicate to cabling and equipment. I have a server room, a telephone/automation room, and 4 subclosets for wiring hubs and video distribution points. Maybe a little much but I don't think I could get the same functionality to fit into a rack plus a couple of cans at the back of a coat closet.