problem with auto arm

[newalarm]

Hi all,
 
so i have a problem with our garage area on Elk m1g. Our garage is set up as separate area. Since we are in an out of it all the time, i set it to auto arm after 30 min. Problem is, every once in a while, it fails to auto arm. Today, we left out garage door, and 3 hours later, we came home and garage was not armed.
 
Here are the 4 rules i set up.
 

11. WHENEVER G South Motion (Zn 1) BECOMES NOT SECURE

           THEN SET Arm Garage (Counter 1) TO 30
 


12. WHENEVER G North Motion (Zn 2) BECOMES NOT SECURE



           THEN SET Arm Garage (Counter 1) TO 30
 



9. WHENEVER EVERY 60 SECONDS

     AND G South Motion (Zn 1) IS SECURE

     AND G North Motion (Zn 2) IS SECURE



           THEN SUBTRACT 1 FROM Arm Garage (Counter 1)






10. WHENEVER Arm Garage (Counter 1) CHANGES TO 0

           THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO AWAY IMMEDIATELY

 

 

[wuench]

It would probably be more efficient to set a phantom relay on. i.e. whenever motion turn relay X on for 30 min. Whenever relay x turns off, arm.

 

[mikefamig]

Hi all,
 
so i have a problem with our garage area on Elk m1g. Our garage is set up as separate area. Since we are in an out of it all the time, i set it to auto arm after 30 min. Problem is, every once in a while, it fails to auto arm. Today, we left out garage door, and 3 hours later, we came home and garage was not armed.
 
Here are the 4 rules i set up.
 
11. WHENEVER G South Motion (Zn 1) BECOMES NOT SECURE
           THEN SET Arm Garage (Counter 1) TO 30
 
12. WHENEVER G North Motion (Zn 2) BECOMES NOT SECURE
           THEN SET Arm Garage (Counter 1) TO 30
 
9. WHENEVER EVERY 60 SECONDS
     AND G South Motion (Zn 1) IS SECURE
     AND G North Motion (Zn 2) IS SECURE
           THEN SUBTRACT 1 FROM Arm Garage (Counter 1)

 
10. WHENEVER Arm Garage (Counter 1) CHANGES TO 0
           THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO AWAY IMMEDIATELY
 

 
This looks like it should work but I wouldn't check for motion every 60 seconds, just subtract 1 from counter every 60 seconds.
 
I have working rules that arm the garage automatically but only after sunset and before sunrise.
This is how I accomplished it:
 
DETECT 30 MINUTES OF INACTIVITY ON GARAGE MOTION 1
18 WHENEVER Garage Motion1 (Zn 165) BECOMES NOT SECURE
THEN SET Motion 1 (Counter 1) TO 30
19 WHENEVER EVERY 1 MINUTE
AND Motion 1 (Counter 1) IS GREATER THAN 0
THEN SUBTRACT 1 FROM Motion 1 (Counter 1)

DISABLE AUTO-ARM ANY TIME YOU DISARM SO THAT IT DOESN'T AUTO-ARM AS SOON AS YOU WALK INTO GARAGE
20 WHENEVER Garage (Area 2) ARM STATE BECOMES DISARMED
THEN SET Motion 1 (Counter 1) TO 30
 
ALARM GARAGE AUTOMATICALLY BETWEEN SUNSET AND MIDNIGHT AND NO MOTION FOR 30 MIN
21 WHENEVER EVERY 10 MINUTES
AND Garage (Area 2) ARM STATE = DISARMED
AND Motion 1 (Counter 1) IS EQUAL TO 0
AND THE TIME IS LATER THAN AT SUNSET
THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO AWAY IMMEDIATELY

ALARM GARAGE AUTOMATICALLY BETWEEN MIDNIGHT AND SUNRISE AND NO MOTION FOR 30 MIN
22 WHENEVER EVERY 10 MINUTES
AND Garage (Area 2) ARM STATE = DISARMED
AND Motion 1 (Counter 1) IS EQUAL TO 0
AND THE TIME IS EARLIER THAN AT SUNRISE
THEN ARM AREA(S) 2 TO AWAY IMMEDIATELY
 
Hope this helps, Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Also have you looked at the log? Is it possible that it IS arming but you have another rule that is dis-arming it?
 
Mike.

 

[newalarm]

Yes. I did look at log. There was nothing that showed what was going on, that could have prevented it from arming. Is there a more detailed log that shows if a motion is tripped without alarm situation? I was thinking that a spider web in front of motion could do this. But that would mean false alarms. The only time we ever got a false alarm was when a cat got stuck in garage; freaked the hell out of us.
 
I am going to study your rules and see. I am not very good with rules so I have to really read through them carefully.
 
One last thing, my rules are out of order, but i assumed this was not an issue. Like i said, there are VERY few times it does not work. The only other thing i though it could be was fact that their are two motions in garages.
 
I also think that most of the times i have noticed it not arming, is when we leave with the car, and close the garage sectional door. But I would need to check.

 

[mikefamig]

If any of the motion detectors (or any zone) are violated when the system is trying to auto-arm and those zones are not by-passable then I think that the system would not arm. I believe that the system needs to be in a ready state in order to auto arm.
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

Elk rules can be difficult to understand but here is a link to a tech note from Elk that explains the inner workings of how a rule is treated by the control:
 
www.elkproducts.com/_literature_139149/Tech_Note_-_How_the_M1_Rules_Engine_Works
 
Mike.

 

[newalarm]

Thanks. I have been in garage with sectional open, and the system started to arm. So system was not in ready mode as the doors are monitored. I don't know what would happen when it tried to arm. I guess alarm would go off and it would report as a arming error?

 

[mikefamig]

Thanks. I have been in garage with sectional open, and the system started to arm. So system was not in ready mode as the doors are monitored. I don't know what would happen when it tried to arm. I guess alarm would go off and it would report as a arming error?

 
I do not know what happens when a rule tries to arm the system and it is not ready but give it a try and we'll both learn something. My guess is that it will just not arm.
 
Here is a thread that I started a while back concerning rules and how they work.

 

[newalarm]

I do not see a link to your thread???
 
I was wondering if there was any way to organize rules. When i started this thread, i started copy pasting the rules out of RP, and it was torture. you can only copy one line at a time and sometimes it does not register the copy. There must be a way to export to excel or something; i have not yet explored this.
 
I wonder how people keep their rules straight and organized. I only have about two dozen. But if you had hundreds, sifting through them to find an issue would be a major headache.

 

[mikefamig]

In RP you can right click on a rulel and then cut and paste it to another location in the list of rules. I also like to add comments to the top of each rule and make the comment all caps so that it stands out in the rules list.

 

[Del91574]

If any of the motion detectors (or any zone) are violated when the system is trying to auto-arm and those zones are not by-passable then I think that the system would not arm. I believe that the system needs to be in a ready state in order to auto arm.
 
Mike.

Force arm takes care of that. The M1 will give it's unhappy brap sound and then arm normally. The doc you linked to does provide an insight for what and how it works (for the OP).
 
The comments only stay with the local DB and not the panel, so if you have the tendency to use multiple machines, unless you sync your DB across them, the notes aren't going to help.
 
The rules can be exported out, modified and reimported. If you pay attention to the extension and modify and follow the syntax details, you can modify in a standard version of MS access or excel.

 

[mikefamig]

I do not see a link to your thread???
 
I was wondering if there was any way to organize rules. When i started this thread, i started copy pasting the rules out of RP, and it was torture. you can only copy one line at a time and sometimes it does not register the copy. There must be a way to export to excel or something; i have not yet explored this.
 
I wonder how people keep their rules straight and organized. I only have about two dozen. But if you had hundreds, sifting through them to find an issue would be a major headache.

Sorry about that....here's the link
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/27708-elk-rules-engine/?hl=%20elk%20%20rules%20%20execution

 

[mikefamig]

newalarm
 
here is a link to a document published by elk that explains how rules work
 
www.elkproducts.com/_literature_139149/Tech_Note_-_How_the_M1_Rules_Engine_Works