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Problem with light control on an HAI Omni 2E

Redgecko

Member
Hoping someone can throw some light on my problem.
A little background....
Moved into new to us house that came with this system fitted and no communication from previous owners.
System seems to work and was working controlling various lights such as porch on at Sunset off at midnight, would also activate kitchen and hall light at dark when motion detectors activated.
Now all of a sudden no lights are being controlled at all but when I check the status on the panel it shows them as on.
I feel it has to be something silly but as a complete novice to home automation, I'm stumped.
Would anyone have any suggestions please?
 

ano

Senior Member
Redgecko said:
Hoping someone can throw some light on my problem.
A little background....
Moved into new to us house that came with this system fitted and no communication from previous owners.
System seems to work and was working controlling various lights such as porch on at Sunset off at midnight, would also activate kitchen and hall light at dark when motion detectors activated.
Now all of a sudden no lights are being controlled at all but when I check the status on the panel it shows them as on.
I feel it has to be something silly but as a complete novice to home automation, I'm stumped.
Would anyone have any suggestions please?
The Omni supports many different lighting protocols. They all work differently, and troubleshooting them is different. There is X-10, UPB, wired, Zigbee, Z-wave, and probably 5 more. No one can help unless you give more info. 
 

pete_c

Guru
Welcome to the forum Redgecko.
 
I would start by reading the user manual and installation manual.
 
hxxp://www.homeauto.com/Downloads/Products/AutomationControllers/OmniIIe/20R00-50_V2-11.pdf
 
hxxp://www.homeauto.com/Downloads/Products/AutomationControllers/OmniIIe/20R00-50_V2-11.pdf
 
You will need the installer 4 digit code to make any changes via consoles or PCS.

Or contract somebody on the forum to review your installation locally or remotely.
 
Where are you?
 

Redgecko

Member
Thanks so much for the replies guys, I very much appreciate your time. Sorry I didn't back sooner but as you know it will only let me reply once a day initially.
 
ano said:
The Omni supports many different lighting protocols. They all work differently, and troubleshooting them is different. There is X-10, UPB, wired, Zigbee, Z-wave, and probably 5 more. No one can help unless you give more info. 
Ano, as stated I am new to this so it's all a little double dutch on some of the terminologies and system types but, on what paperwork I do have that was left with the house, I find this info.....

House code                      A
X-10 3 Phase:                  No
UPB Network Address:    1
UPB Status Time:             5
UPB Transmit Count:        2

Does that help with anything? Does this mean it is a UPB type or could it be multiple types still?
 
mikefamig said:
 Having no knowledge of the system I would first cycle the power on the system.
 
Mike.
 
Mike, as I stated it seemed to be working OK this past couple of months and I thought I had figured how to make some changes to things via the control panel. However now the system is still controlling the heating and operating the heat time and temperature settings OK but now fails to operate any of the lights in any form, programmed or manual. What it does show though is when I manually tell it to turn something on it will show in status that that light is in fact on although it is obviously not and it will do that for every light shown in the system. It just seems that it's lost the connection to the lights themselves somehow?
Do you think it would be worth trying to cycle the power and, if so, how is that actually done....... told you I didn't know much about alarms... :mellow:
pete_c said:
Welcome to the forum Redgecko.
 
I would start by reading the user manual and installation manual.
 
hxxp://www.homeauto.com/Downloads/Products/AutomationControllers/OmniIIe/20R00-50_V2-11.pdf
 
hxxp://www.homeauto.com/Downloads/Products/AutomationControllers/OmniIIe/20R00-50_V2-11.pdf
 
You will need the installer 4 digit code to make any changes via consoles or PCS.

Or contract somebody on the forum to review your installation locally or remotely.
 
Where are you?
Pete, thanks for the welcome. At this point I am looking for any ideas to get things sorted as having these system working was extremely useful. I am in rural Wisconsin and at present am having a hard time finding someone local to even call, so any suggestions you may have are welcomed.



Thanks again for all your inputs.

Ian.
 

pete_c

Guru
Ian,
 
Does that help with anything? Does this mean it is a UPB type or could it be multiple types still?
 
X10 and UPB are both powerline protocals (means the signals use your home electrical wires).
 
Both are prone to power line noise which affects the transmission / reception of control signals from the switch to the UPB PIM or X10 PIM. (PIM = Powerline Interface Module).  Typically powerline noise affects X10 and UPB.  UPB much less than X10.
 
Noise can come from motors (like your AC or Heat blower motor), AC/DC transformers, UPS's et al.  The noise can crop up any time.
 
Your Omni Panel / UPB Pim should be fine if you haven't changed anything.
 
Best way to test for noise is to purchase another UPB PIM and connect it to a laptop and utilize Upstart diagnostics.  You can also disconnect your HAI UPB PIM and connect it to a laptop with a RJ to RS-232 interface.
 
Just returned from a short visit to the Oshkosh vicinity.    (well northwest of there on a lake at Waupaca). 
 
Thinking we were the only folks there.  Most of the homes there looked closed up. 
 
 
I am an EAA member and have been there for little get togethers over the years.  
 
Brought my golf clubs / fishing stuff but mostly sat inside and played cards with a nice view of the little lake...this was our first venture since the beginning of the virus debacle.
 
The house we rented had a Control 4 system which did not look much maintained but it worked fine. (controlled Lighting, Thermostat, TV, Media, et al).
 
;)
 

RAL

Senior Member
To Pete's comment about power line noise... another source can be CFL and LED light bulbs, especially inexpensive ones.  So if you've replaced some light bulbs recently, that would be another suspect.   Also, cell phone chargers can cause trouble for UPB and X10. 
 
One simple thing to try is turning off circuit breakers one by one and then each time see if the lighting controls start working again.  Obviously, you can't turn those circuits off (at least not all at once).   If things start working again, then you know that the last circuit you turned off is the likely source of your problem.
 

ano

Senior Member
Redgecko said:
Ano, as stated I am new to this so it's all a little double dutch on some of the terminologies and system types but, on what paperwork I do have that was left with the house, I find this info.....

House code                      A
X-10 3 Phase:                  No
UPB Network Address:    1
UPB Status Time:             5
UPB Transmit Count:        2

Does that help with anything? Does this mean it is a UPB type or could it be multiple types still?
In PC Access, click the "setup" tab, then below, select "units", then at the top, you should see a column called "House Code Format."  The Omni can have a different format for every 16 switches. For a simple system, they are all likely the same.  Does the first group say HCL, UPB, X-10, or something else?
 
Also, you can look at the switches. Can you find any company or model number? 
 

Redgecko

Member
I would firstly just like to say I appreciate all of the help and suggestions. I will try some of them like trying to eliminate the possibility of noise via the circuit breakers.
As far as laptop access, I don't have any or at least don't know how to go about setting that up, so I'm sorry I can't answer any of those related questions right now.
I have done a little more digging down by the panel and it appears there is a X-10 Powerhouse TW523 Two-way powerline interface module connect. So from my, so far limited knowledge, I'm assuming that is what should be making the connection between the Omni and the lighting switches? Is it possible that this unit could have gone bad? Any way of testing it?

Thanks,
Ian.
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
Redgecko said:
I have done a little more digging down by the panel and it appears there is a X-10 Powerhouse TW523 Two-way powerline interface module connect. So from my, so far limited knowledge, I'm assuming that is what should be making the connection between the Omni and the lighting switches? Is it possible that this unit could have gone bad? Any way of testing it?

 
do you have an X-10 lamp or appliance module?  You could plug that into a power strip along with the TW-523 and see if you can send a command via the Omni to operate it.
 

pete_c

Guru
The TW-523 X10 module is a bit more susceptible to power line noise.  Looking at the above looks like you are configured for House code A and devices 1-16.
 
The TW-523 module can fail but its all or nothing with it.  If only some of the X-10 modules or Light switches are controllable then typically it is power line noise.
 
The HAI UPB module controls your UPB modules or light switches.  It is a bit like an X10 module on steroids and the UPB network is a bit more secure than X10.
 
The UPB Module is also all or nothing if it is failing.  Individual UPB devices / light switches not going on or off is typically due to powerline noise.
 
For checking the X10 devices without a computer you can utilize an old plugin controller made by BSR or Radio Shack if you have one around.
 

Redgecko

Member
BraveSirRobbin said:
do you have an X-10 lamp or appliance module?  You could plug that into a power strip along with the TW-523 and see if you can send a command via the Omni to operate it.
 
Thanks for that idea but unfortunately I have no lamp or appliance modules.
 
pete_c said:
The TW-523 X10 module is a bit more susceptible to power line noise.  Looking at the above looks like you are configured for House code A and devices 1-16.
 
The TW-523 module can fail but its all or nothing with it.  If only some of the X-10 modules or Light switches are controllable then typically it is power line noise.
 
The HAI UPB module controls your UPB modules or light switches.  It is a bit like an X10 module on steroids and the UPB network is a bit more secure than X10.
 
The UPB Module is also all or nothing if it is failing.  Individual UPB devices / light switches not going on or off is typically due to powerline noise.
 
For checking the X10 devices without a computer you can utilize an old plugin controller made by BSR or Radio Shack if you have one around.
Well I think the module may possibly have failed as I have nothing that is operating so it appears it is a case of all. The only thing that is receiving any communication is the Thermostat and, as that is an HAI unit, I'm assuming it isn't controlled via the X10 module.
With regard to checking the devices is this the sort of thing you are meaning I can use?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/X-10-Powerhouse-IR-Command-Center-Model-IR543-AH/143779263684?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131231084308%26meid%3D1704b002ceda479fb2e4dfc25143f74a%26pid%3D100010%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D303712771987%26itm%3D143779263684%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DDefaultOrganic%26brand%3DX-10&_trksid=p2047675.c100010.m2109
 

pete_c

Guru
The thermostat works via a serial connection (3 wires) to the panel as shown above in the pictures. 
 
IE: Left you see the furnace wires and to the right you see the 3 thermostat serial wires going to the Omni panel.
 
The above mentioned x10 controller will work to test your X10 devices.  You can purchase an old TW-523 on Ebay these days reasonably priced.
 
Can you take a picture of your panel and post it here with your telephone?
 
Is the panel connected to the network?  Do you have mobile phone access to the panel?
 
PM me.
 

Redgecko

Member
pete_c said:
The thermostat works via a serial connection (3 wires) to the panel as shown above in the pictures. 
 
IE: Left you see the furnace wires and to the right you see the 3 thermostat serial wires going to the Omni panel.
 
The above mentioned x10 controller will work to test your X10 devices.  You can purchase an old TW-523 on Ebay these days reasonably priced.
 
Can you take a picture of your panel and post it here with your telephone?
 
Is the panel connected to the network?  Do you have mobile phone access to the panel?
 
PM me.
 
Ok good to know on the controller.
I don't know whether the panel is connected to the internet, certainly doesn't show in my network but that's wireless obviously. I have no mobile phone access either
I'll grab a pic of the panel.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a09j0fnuzjgd4nb/20201028_172633.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rucut3h6shfie3t/20201028_172618.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jiy1km0z9lpppje/20201028_172546.jpg?dl=0


 
RAL said:
Yes, that's what you can use to send X10 commands to any unit.
 
Thanks RAL
 
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