rack patch panels between studs?

[wkearney99]

I'm debating how to provide some on-wall termination for a bunch of in-wall wiring and get that's in adjacent structured media cans.
 
I've currently got three 16" stud bays side-by-side.  They're in a 2x4" stud wall built out in front of the rest of the foam insulated wall.  So there's actually a little more of the stud bay behind them as available depth.  As in, with the current wall there's actually room behind the cans to snake wires.  Not and even enough amount of allow for an extension ring, but enough to avoid crowding the top entry holes.
 
I'm not sure I like the configuration.  I'm debating changing it from three 16" stud bays.  I'm thinking it might be better to have the two 16" bays on the outside and a single 19" rack capable center bay.  It's not a big deal to reframe this as it's just a wall specifically for this gear, it's not load bearing or related to the structure at all.   I'd probably reframe it with 2x6" depth as well.  
 
I really do prefer having the ability to enclose these items, so changing to a bare stretch of plywood isn't going to happen.  So let's just not go there, please.  That and I've already got the cans.  Yes, I know, designing around existing gear isn't always the smartest route.  We're not going there.  Two of the six cans may show up in the For Sale section...
 
What I may also do is put a blank panel of plywood along the back of some portion of this rack-width bay.  That way I'll have a flat open space to screw things down while also being able to cover it with rack panels.  
 
The rest of the flat surfaces around & between the boxes will be painted finish-grade plywood.  This to allow for removability should access be needed.
 
It would appear from Middle Atlantic's literature the width needed is 19-1/8".  Sound right?  
 
My questions are what width is desired and whose rails should I consider for it?  
 

 

[Del91574]

I may not be completely following, but I don't believe you're going to have the necessary depth to effectively use rack mounted hardware on a normal stud bay....it'll be too tight.
 
If this is to simply use the rack blank plates to clean up the look, I'd look at a different way to accomplish this....I don't see the effort and finished product justifying the means.

While you already have the cans, I'd look at a small double hinged wall rack that is shallow. Easy enough to create the holes to get cabling in, swings both ways and then is reasonably clean when closed up.

I think the larger item is I don't know what you're intending on rack mounting and what the end result is supposed to be, but even for punchdowns are terminations, I'd want a good 8-10" to allow for cable management and slack.

 

[wkearney99]

I've got a bunch of 8U faceplates.  So covering the unused sections isn't a cost issue.  It's also in a workshop so I'm not terribly worried about it looking perfect.  But I am very interested in making sure it's all covered.  Between dust and other crap moving around I've learned to prefer buttoning this sort of stuff up.
 
A 2x6 stud bay is plenty deep enough for patch panels.  That and the flat area behind them would likewise been deep enough to wall mount most gear.  But I'm specifically NOT looking to need to use this as a place to mount actual devices INTO the face of it.  Just for the outward facing patch sockets for stuff over on a nearby rack.  Most likely concentrated along the top section.
 
Look at it another way, if you have a lot of wire coming into a set of cans, what would you use to then patch from them to nearby gear?  You'd most likely use wall plates, right?  
 
But I've got quite a lot of in-wall wiring coming into this location and 24 zones of in-ceiling speakers (of which I may not light up all of them).  Trying to bring that many audio and cat5 connections out to cross-connect via wall plates would likely be quite a lot more expensive than just using 1 and 2U patch panels with cat5 and likely speakon connections.   Yes, directly wiring them to the rack would certainly be 'easier'... in the short term.  I've learned over the years to avoid making hard connections directly to movable racks.  Invariably things get moved (upgrades, fiddling, floods, etc).  Having spent more up front for patch panels and their cabling saves from a lot of hassles that come with fiddling with in-wall connected strands.  Yes, it costs more upfront, yes it's overkill and yes it probably won't ever be an issue.  But I'm willing to squander the funds on doing it this way, so just humor me on that.

 

[wuench]

I kind of did this, rolled my own rack between existing studs.  The spacing was already wide enough because I had mounted my SuperPro panel in that stud buy above it and it requires a wide bay.   After having done it, I would really recommend a steel frame if you can instead of raw rails.  The problem is that studs are not straight.  I created a wood frame like a door frame using flat plates to keep the width right and then shimmed that frame into the existing studs.  But over time the frame warps if you don't keep the rack filled to hold the dimensions in place.  A steel frame would be more resistant to those effects.  
 
One thing you could consider is using raceway for patches and still use a can.  Using a can does give you better options than plywood if you want put components inside.  Raceway comes in all kinds of sizes, depths and fingered or not.   I basically have a patch panel setup with my Superpro and I really regret not doing a normal structured wiring can but I am a network guy and just went with what I was used to...

 

[wkearney99]

Excellent point regarding studs warping, hadn't considered that.  Ok, so whose frame then? (you knew I'd ask...)
 
I've debated picking up a 2 post rack and cannibalizing the parts.  The downside being the side clearances if you want to bring wires in from the adjacent cans.  The cans have various punch-outs in the sides allowing for bringing wires in/out.  There are also a few on the back.  If I use the ones on the side then I have to be careful about how deeply the rack rails extend into the stud wall.  
 
What's additionally infuriating about the cans is their extender ring does NOT use the same dimensions!  Yeah, I sort of understand what, but damn that's annoying.  
 
One way to counteract some of the potential for warping would be to use some cross-bracing. Perhaps even with some metal brackets.  I don't forsee getting into this area all that often once things are configured.  So the panels themselves across the front would be acting as a stabilizing force, to a degree. 

 

[wkearney99]

While I mentioned a 2 post rack being built-in would potentially block cross-connecting holes from the cans, I can always solve that by using a metal hole saw.  
 
I've had my share of experience with hole saws and cutting through framing wood.  Not supporting framing, of course, but false wall framing like this.  So I'm able to do this, both from having the right tools AND knowing how not to let a bound-up bit break my arm.

 

[wkearney99]

The pivoting PPM-6-16OB from MA might be worthwhile for the patch panel section.  6" deep would fit (assuming some surface wall covering in addition to the 2x6 lumber actual depth of only 5.5".  I'll have to check that.  I do know the stud bay for this would overlap the existing stud bay on the wall and it's foam insulation.  So if there's not quite enough depth for the version with the back the I'd either furr it out a bit or use the backless variant.  The one with the back would, at least, give me some lateral rigidity in the process.
 
http://middleatlantic.com/dcm/wall/ppm.htm
 
Or actually any number of other hinged, swing-out panels would work, and probably be a considerably less expensive.  I'm guessing it'd be easier to just hinge-out a 2U panel and it's cabling rather that pivoting down a whole 6 or 8U section.

 

[RAL]

Excellent point regarding studs warping, hadn't considered that.  Ok, so whose frame then? (you knew I'd ask...)
 
I've debated picking up a 2 post rack and cannibalizing the parts.  The downside being the side clearances if you want to bring wires in from the adjacent cans.  The cans have various punch-outs in the sides allowing for bringing wires in/out.  There are also a few on the back.  If I use the ones on the side then I have to be careful about how deeply the rack rails extend into the stud wall.  
 
What's additionally infuriating about the cans is their extender ring does NOT use the same dimensions!  Yeah, I sort of understand what, but damn that's annoying.  
 
One way to counteract some of the potential for warping would be to use some cross-bracing. Perhaps even with some metal brackets.  I don't forsee getting into this area all that often once things are configured.  So the panels themselves across the front would be acting as a stabilizing force, to a degree. 

 
To avoid the problem of the studs warping, how about using steel studs?   You might have to drill/cut some additional holes in them to bring all your wires through, but that's doable.

 

[Del91574]

Steel studs are a lot more work and require bushings....not to mention not really sturdy and twist a lot more than wood.
 
I'd still probably bring my cabling down the bay and look into a relay rack or similar to allow for more service loop and the ability to reterminate cables without pulling a ton of hardware....unfortunately I've seen plenty of punchdowns develop issues over time and realistically, the MAC's in a residence are very limited...so what it does get you is simplified patching. I'd probably be on the fence unless there's a lot of copper involved.