Rule space in M1?

[fleetz]

I am going to control 11 ceiling fans by remote controls that will be in each room in the house.

Some preamble..... I need to use marine grade stainless steel 316 fans as we are near the coast and in the tropics. Want to be able to control the fans in each room via a unified remote control (have selected RTI control solution for this). Have C-Bus throughout but don't want to throw 3 X 12ch relays at the control not to mention the cost of a sparky wiring them up.

That all said the option I really have is Hunter Pacfic Typhoon 316 marine grade ceiling fan. They have an RF control option that supports up to 16 fans by separate addressing at the remote and reciever. Each fan will be fitted a reciever set to a seperate address except for the two on the patio which will share the same address.

I have done a number of tests to ensure that a centally located RF remote can comfortably control each fan in the house. The Hunter Pacific system seem to opertate around 30 metres in a hostile environment ie through walls, doors closed etc. I have modified a remote where I have a relay across each of the 4 address switches (1, 2 , 4, 8 ) and a relay for all the fan functions ie stop, low, med, high. The test system works great.

Sorry to take so long to get to the question however you will better understand why I am asking the question. My issue is currently I will use about 38% of rule space servicing the control of the fans. I need to set up the ceiling fan address first then select the fan function for each fan, this requires a total of 44 rules, gobbling up approx 38% of the rule space.

Can anyone think of a more effecient way of achieving the same result but using less rule space?

A Happy New Year to all Cocooners!!

Regards,

Fleetz

 

[FrankMc]

Hi Fleetz

Just thinking out loud here......

Would it be better to have some kind of serial device which controls the relays and then send some simple ascii messages from the elk to control it ...???

Something like this device might be suitable....

http://www.oceancontrols.com.au/controller...al_daq_k108.htm

Just a thought

HTH
Frank

 

[upstatemike]

this requires a total of 44 rules, gobbling up approx 38% of the rule space.

Yikes! That can't be right can it? This would imply that the M1 has a maximum capacity of around 116 rules which is not even enough to have a rule for each input! And because of the simplified logic it often takes multiple rules to do the same thing a sigle rule would do in If/Then/Else type logic. Plus the M1 has no OR logic or Exclusive OR logic....

Coincidentally my Stargate is at 38% rules space right now. I recently pruned it down to 1500 lines to simplify the logic before trying to map it over to an M1. Now I am concerned that the Elk is still not going to have enough memory for me to make the transition!

 

[electron]

Really advanced logic should be moved to something like the Ocelot, that's what I do, and works great.

 

[upstatemike]

The point was to eventually retire the Stargate and simplify my system... using the M1 plus an Ocelot is not really an improvement over a Caddx panel plus Stargate in terms simplifying things.

 

[fleetz]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input. The reason it has got to 38% is each fan selection can have up to 6 rule instructions a "whenever" to activate and up to 4 "then' for fan address selection and a single "then" for the fan function.....stop low or med etc. Each whenever. and then is a rule so you soon see the "fuel" gauge heading to half full....(or is that half empty )

It is conceivable that 116 on the gauge would be on empty err full! Not all remaining rules would require 6 conditions per instruction. I still have 7 air conditioning relay interface boards that will gobble up a chunk more and also 6 motorised roller blinds. All requiring some logic. I can see the reality that I could run out of space where I am currently heading. Add irrigation, 32 lights channels and general HA stuff in the control logic and the M1 will be past the limit.

The Ocelot might be the way out the RTI system enables serial ASCII to be sent. The Ocelot could then recieve the string and drive sepearte relays to do what the M1 is currently doing. It is just a pity that I have to have another HA controller in to do what the M1 already does! But it is a solution. Just have to throw more technology at it.

The suggestion Frank made would also work from Ocean Controls. I do have an Ocelot which I bought some time back before I went down the RTI control path so I would need a ADI relay output unit to replace the ELK one I am currently using to address the remote control fro the fan.

Thanks for the input thus far.

Regards,

Fleetz

 

[electron]

The point was to eventually retire the Stargate and simplify my system... using the M1 plus an Ocelot is not really an improvement over a Caddx panel plus Stargate in terms simplifying things.

Well how are you planning on doing IR? As far as I know the M1 doesn't do IR. The Ocelot adds features to the M1 platform, I don't consider it a 'fix'.

 

[upstatemike]

Well how are you planning on doing IR? As far as I know the M1 doesn't do IR. The Ocelot adds features to the M1 platform, I don't consider it a 'fix'.

I haven't figured that out yet but I guess it will be a PC based function like TTS. If I need something like PowerHome to manage my Insteon Links and provide TTS then I guess it can do IR as well.

Besides IR I also need some way to replace the analog inputs of the Stargate as well as the LED Keypad annunciators... Maybe I should have thought this through some more before ordering the M1.

 

[Spanky]

Just for clarification, the M1 has a 528 Rule space. A Rule is a WHENEVER...THEN. Each additional AND is a Rule and each additional THEN is a Rule. Every 8 bytes of ASCII text is a Rule.

 

[upstatemike]

Thanks Spanky. Good to know that there are more than just 116 rules available! On the other hand applying the definitions you provide here to the kind of rules I generally write it looks like I might max out somewhere around 11.

 

[fleetz]

The point was to eventually retire the Stargate and simplify my system... using the M1 plus an Ocelot is not really an improvement over a Caddx panel plus Stargate in terms simplifying things.

Well how are you planning on doing IR? As far as I know the M1 doesn't do IR. The Ocelot adds features to the M1 platform, I don't consider it a 'fix'.

Hi Electron,

I suppose I see the Ocelot as a "fix" because I will not be using IR for my M1 control instead I will be using RF. I have selected the RTI Corp gear as my control solution. www.rticorp.com

I have selected the RTI control system for the following reasons.

1. It removes a lot of the problematic issues that you get with IR by using RF
2. It supports both IR and RS-232 (ASCII) at the reciever end
3. It will also be the complete media control solution
4. They have a range of remote controls that I require for my whole of house HA and media control. I have main living room control (T4) , Bedrooms and general living (T3), Pool (U1)....remote that floats!
5. It already has a lot of the control codes already saved for a lot of the gear I will be using Russound CAV6.6 etc
6. It is very cost effective compared to AMX and Crestron with I think a better domestic remote control selection
7. I keep Bill Gates out of my control solution ( not quite correct as I have a TS-07 in one location in the house)
8. It stores common commands in the RF reciever so you do not have to duplicate the IR commands in each remote control.
9. It has just the one program "TheaterTouch Designer" tool that allows you to do all the programming of the family of remote controls and the RF reciever.

That all said it is probably making more sense to cut the M1 out completly and bank the rule space for true HA applications. I probably will see how I go before throwing the baby out with the bath water though. I will ensure any neccessary cables go in the where my modified Hunter Ceiling fan remote system is so I can replace the ELK relay with a ADI one and incorporate the Ocelot. I see the probably of incorporating the Ocelot in the ninties (%) range. Most likely time permitting I will do it before rather than after just so I know I have the rule space.

I can remember when I first bought the M1 thinking jeez 500 (528) rules I will never get close to needing all that and here I am having not put a wire in the place yet and juggling how I am going to do everything I want to do. I got a bit tripped up on a rule actually not being a complete automated task. It wasn't to after I got the M1 and started using the rules that I was aware of the WHENEVER, AND, THEN and 8 bytes of ASCII equalling one rule a time.

At the minute when I am doing rule programming it is similiar to looking at the fuel gauge of my 5.7 litre V8 whilst driving....only with the car I can top it up!

The joys and challanges of integration and home automation......isn't this why we do it! ? B)

This why I see in my situation the Ocelot as a "fix".

Happy New to All

Fleetz

 

[fleetz]

Forgot to allow for the 44 ASCII text strings need to support each functions so 38% + another 44 rules. Looks like the Ocelot is definetly into to play!

Hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go :blink:

Fleetz