Security Camera Solution with HA in mind

[hobbes487]

I recently moved into a new house so I am in the process of setting up a HA and security system. I have the HA part figured out (Home Assistant), but I am not sure what to do with regards to a security camera solution. There are so many different options out there and I am having trouble figuring out what to go with. The main requirement I have is that it will record video and I will be able to watch live streams and recording remotely. Motion sensing and being able to tie it is with my HA would be nice, but not completely necessary.
Here are all of the different options I can see:

1. 
   DIY - Buy a bunch of POE IP cameras and build my own NVR using BlueIris/ZoneMinder
   Pros: Can pick any cameras I want. Relatively easy to integrate with HA system
   Cons: Requires building a 24/7 server. Probably a bit more maintenance.
   
2. 
   POE Security Camera System (something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Zmodo-Simplfied-Surveillance-Weatherproof-Detection/dp/B01KZJ3T4E/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506622913&sr=1-3&keywords=poe+security+camera+system)
   Pros: Cost. Simplicity
   Cons: Can't integrate into HA? Can't choose cameras or add cameras
   
3. 
   Xfinity Home or some other cloud based system - Pretty sure I don't want this
   Pros: Professional. Easy.
   Cons: Expensive. No HA integration
   

Am I correct in my assumptions about the options available for a security camera system? The kits are very tempting due to their relatively low cost, but I'm not sure if I am missing any other downsides. Is there anything else I should be considering? What are you all using and why?

 

[pete_c]

Here over the years (tinkering with a variety of analog cameras to tinkering with a variety of IP HD cameras) have DIY'd my CCTV using ZM and my OmniPro 2 panel and Homeseer.
 
There is a Homeseer 3 plugin for Blue Iris and a Homeseer Omni Plugin.
 
I have been able to integrate all just fine.

 

[42etus]

I built a new house four years ago and ran cat6 cable literally everywhere during construction. I have added 10 IP cameras, and a dedicated PC running BlueIris software that records to a remote NAS. I couldn't be happier with this setup and would do it all over again. I really don't like the package "everything included" deals. To me, they always seem to lack something and often aren't expandable. YMMV

 

[PigsDad]

Have you looked into the Blink XT cameras?  Motion activated recording, live video modes, audio.  No need for a server, as it includes storage for video in their cloud systems w/ no subscription fees.  Video quality is very good, but the low-light video is not great.  Something to look into.
 
Kurt

 

[batwater]

I built a new house four years ago and ran cat6 cable literally everywhere during construction. I have added 10 IP cameras, and a dedicated PC running BlueIris software that records to a remote NAS. I couldn't be happier with this setup and would do it all over again. I really don't like the package "everything included" deals. To me, they always seem to lack something and often aren't expandable. YMMV

 
When you say remote NAS do you mean off site?  Also, are you using BI archive function to move the recording?  I can't see how it would be practical to record real time to a remote NAS depending on where it is located.  I find your setup interesting as I currently store my recordings on the same machine that is running BI.

 

[42etus]

When you say remote NAS do you mean off site?  Also, are you using BI archive function to move the recording?  I can't see how it would be practical to record real time to a remote NAS depending on where it is located.  I find your setup interesting as I currently store my recordings on the same machine that is running BI.

It's off site as in a different building on the property. I don't record continuously in real time, only when cameras are triggered. The clips are then stored on the BI machine for 48 hours. If I don't delete them in that time, they are then archived onto the NAS. BI deletes them from the NAS after 30 days. It's a system that works well for me.

 

[batwater]

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[batwater]

OP: The other benefit of Blue Iris (Zoneminder may be able to do this as well, not familiar) tying into the title of this thread "Security Camera Solution with HA in mind" is that BI has software hooks to trigger external events e.g. run a script when X occurs.  It also has a JSON interface for external control. While there is some overhead maintenance with a PC running Win10 it is not much.  I have BI running as a service, the machine automatically patching itself at a certain time in the morning and an auto reboot 1x a week. I've not had a single issue with this setup.

 

[Linwood]

I ran my own ip cameras.  I did not want wireless for any number of reasons; wires generally just work.
 
I used Zoneminder for a couple years, and did some programming in it.  ti works.  It's clunky.
 
I just spent time searching through other software products.  There's a thread here (look for NVR) and I just wrote a draft of my experience here if you want to see the comments (that's really more of a draft and I need to do a proof read; the site has no ads). There are a LOT of software choices, especially if you want to spend money.  I highly recommend doing trials on some, as you may not find killer issues (or that special feature you will really love) without spending some time with them, and they vary a lot.

 

[JNA]

@ Linwood. I read your linked overview of the options you considered thanks. Did you look at either Bluecherry or Shinobi options as i didn't see them listed? Not sure if they satisfy all your desires (and didn't see whether either supported reviewing multiple video streams simultaneously) but both are cross platform so support Linux. Shinobi has a Pro and CE version but Pro is free for personal use. Bluecherry is a commercial offering but fits the budgets you were outlining and has a 30 day free trial.
 
Edit: Never-mind ref Shonobi as I see from your DVR thread that you had already considered and rejected it as too buggy.

 

[Linwood]

@JNA, Shinobi It is an interesting tool, as one guy apparently built it very quickly, and it has a lot of features.  The author wrote me back when I put up an issue on github for some of the more repeatable bugs, and he said his development branch is better. I did not try it; it may be worth a go. I do worry a bit about a one-man-shop leading to abandonware soon, but he has done an awful lot, and with source available there's less concern.
 
Bluecherry - I did not run into that one at all.  I just did their online demo, and it looks rather shallow off hand, but maybe because I didn't get to configure the server side?   Also 2 of the 3 cameras it showed did not work.  Should you try it yourself and find it interesting, let me know.  I rather hate to tear down the windows system now, but frankly I might, as I really wanted Windows (right now I'm running my linux stuff inside the windows in a hyper-v).

 

[JNA]

I haven't looked at Shinobi in depth and have some similar concerns about a one man band but IIRC Blue Iris is still a one man band too or at least was for a long time if not still today (but stand to be corrected if not) so that can work out long term. I also use Snapraid which is in a similar situation. There's certainly no doubt that there are some talented developers out there.
 
Similarly Bluecherry has just been a web page analysis so far since I don't run any cameras currently, so it will likely be a while before I can test. I too prefer a Linux machine for this type of application, although both Blue Iris and Milestone are on my Windows short list.
 
To not get too off topic with the thread. The main reservation I have with the IP Camera -> DVR -> LAN solution is that while it removes the cameras from the LAN to avoid security issues in the camera you are still faced with potential security problems with the DVR software which is most likely Linux based. As we've seen with router software from very large consumer suppliers, their response to patching security holes has not been satisfactory so I expect even less from DVR manufacturers and trust Ubuntu much more.

 

[pete_c]

Bluecheery software in Linux came out a long time ago in the analog days.  Bluecherry's 8 chip analog video NVR board was cloned to a much cheaper version.  I purchased it and used it for ZM.  There was always chit chat about Bluecherry being faster in Linux than ZM.
 
I have not looked at or played with Bluecherry in Linux in over 10 years now.  Thinking though the roots of Bluecherry are in ZM.  (linux).

 

[Linwood]

@JNA one option is to block all camera and NVR's at your firewall, period.  Not let them talk in or out, then you do not really have to worry (except for people you may allow to use your Wifi or LAN). 
 
Of course this prevents you from seeing the cameras remotely.  One option to solve that is a vpn solution.  While not immune to security issues, it does mean that you can isolate the vulnerabilities to that device and your remote device, and not have to worry about cameras and NVR software of NAS boxes or the like individually.  Running an open source router or firewall (and using it for VPN) does not guarantee prompt patches but does give you a lot more visibility into whether a device is patched since you can watch development efforts, ask on forums, or look at the code.  
 
Obviously none of this is for the technically-challenged homeowner.

 

[JNA]

@Linwood
What's becoming very apparent to me is that one can't take any product or supplier for granted in terms of security and in particular how well (or otherwise) products are supported when security goes south in a big way, usually due to some newly discovered loophole/bug in the software.
 
For example this weeks major security problem with WAP2 wireless security aka KRACKS https://www.krackattacks.com/ that seems to impact most wireless LAN clients including security cameras, laptops, android phones (and apparently to a lesser extent routers/wireless access points.) The Ubiquiti wireless access point I use already has a patch, but I'm probably going to have to upgrade my LG phone and Nexus tablet to LineageOS ROM (which has already been patched against KRACKS) from the currently unsupported versions of Android that may never get patched at this stage. I suspect many security cameras will never get patched for this, which is why I'll be using PoE for mine. It also raises questions about how well supported alarm security panels are which use either wireless LAN, Bluetooth (Blueborne anyone?) or Zwave or a combination of these apparently increasingly vulnerable communications.
 
To your point, I have even started considering creating my own cloud based VPN/mail server which can be surprisingly affordable at a what seems a doable $5/month, albeit possibly a little bit challenging for me depending on what solution I pursue since I don't have your technical chops. I already use a Ubiquiti router but it may make more sense to keep that as backup for my own Linux based router/firewall in due course.
 
Looks like being technically challenged isn't going to be an acceptable option.