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Self-install Elk & Security, or get a pro?

IVB

Senior Member
I'm going to rip out my ADT system, and put in an Elk M1. I'd love to see if all my motion sensors & door/window contacts can be re-used, but I'm a little afraid of this effort. I only have a 1650 sqft house, but I think I want a pro doing this. They could put in the M1 and rewire all the security crap, then I'll handle integration with CQC.

Am I being too wussy? Should I do this myself? Any other thoughts?
 

betrickey

Member
After seeing your work on your web site you should have no problem setting this system up. I am by no means a security/HA pro(just a dumb carpenter and fireman ) but I was able to do all of the install and programming myself. If you follow the manual it lays everything out in very clear simple terms. This was my first security system install of any kind and it was much easier than I thought. I wish that I knew more about programming rs232 so I could take advantage of that option. As you know there are quite a few members of this fourm who are very knowledgable about this system including company reps who I'm sure would help out as much as possible.
 

FrankMc

Active Member
IVB said:
I'm going to rip out my ADT system, and put in an Elk M1. I'd love to see if all my motion sensors & door/window contacts can be re-used, but I'm a little afraid of this effort. I only have a 1650 sqft house, but I think I want a pro doing this. They could put in the M1 and rewire all the security crap, then I'll handle integration with CQC.

Am I being too wussy? Should I do this myself? Any other thoughts?
Hi Ivb

I have replied to your post but unfortunately i selected report instead of quote i hope the Moderators wil paste it here soon...

Sorry
Frank
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
FrankMc said:
I have replied to your post but unfortunately i selected report instead of quote i hope the Moderators wil paste it here soon...
Hmm, I haven't seen anything come down. Maybe just electron gets notified! Should hopefully be fixed tomorrow!

IVB;

One question I have is do you know if they used "end of line" resistors on your current sensors and where these resistors were placed?
 

IVB

Senior Member
BraveSirRobbin said:
One question I have is do you know if they used "end of line" resistors on your current sensors and where these resistors were placed?
Not sure, and here's an embarassing question which may sway your opinion of what I should do: Does "end of line" mean the panel end, or the door/window end? The googling I've done on that phrase implies that sensors are daisy-chained, and this resistor is basically the termination point. I don't want to make any assumptions, though.

And to make me admit feeling sillier, - i've lived in this house for 6 years, and I still have no idea where the ADT "panel" or whatever is, and where the lines are running. There's this brick of a transformer against the AC outlet, i'll see if there's any resistors there. If not there, I'll get into the crawl space below it to see if there's any wires there.

Is this what an "end of line" resistor looks like? It's from http://www.heritagemedcall.com/hm-585.htm .
hm-585-small.gif


Thanks for the help with this, btw.
 

FrankMc

Active Member
IVB said:
BraveSirRobbin said:
One question I have is do you know if they used "end of line" resistors on your current sensors and where these resistors were placed?
Not sure, and here's an embarassing question which may sway your opinion of what I should do: Does "end of line" mean the panel end, or the door/window end? The googling I've done on that phrase implies that sensors are daisy-chained, and this resistor is basically the termination point. I don't want to make any assumptions, though.

And to make me admit feeling sillier, - i've lived in this house for 6 years, and I still have no idea where the ADT "panel" or whatever is, and where the lines are running. There's this brick of a transformer against the AC outlet, i'll see if there's any resistors there. If not there, I'll get into the crawl space below it to see if there's any wires there.

Is this what an "end of line" resistor looks like? It's from http://www.heritagemedcall.com/hm-585.htm .
hm-585-small.gif


Thanks for the help with this, btw.
Hi ivb

The end of line resistors SHOULD be located at the sensor end , but lazy installers will sometimes put them in the alarm panel.....In the post i previously sent i indicated that if end of lines were used that they may need to be changed to suit the M1 panel...

The brick thing would be the wall wart for the alarm panel...usually located in a cupboard and sometimes in the roof space (crawl space) .....

Have you connected things up before ???? You dont sound too confident ;-)

Frank
 

IVB

Senior Member
ave you connected things up before ???? You dont sound too confident ;-)
Yes and no. I can do things that are simple, simple but time consuming, but I prefer to stay away from complex. I built out my whole HA/HTPC system, ran the wiring for the plasma, just did it today for the Aprilaire [ran through crawl space & walls]. I don't consider any of that complex as it was just a ton of elbow grease.

However, I'm wondering whether to put security in the same category that I do brakes on my car. I can do a lot of DIY on the car, but I won't touch brakes even though they're damn simple. Theory being - if I screw something up, people get hurt.

If it's "just" wiring, then I'm cool. But if I gotta deal with stuff like calculating impedance, analyzing resistors, getting more than "basic" stuff, then I need to ask the question.

Unless, of course, it'll cost $1500 in labor to do all of this, in which case I'm suddenly an expert :D
 

FrankMc

Active Member
IVB said:
ave you connected things up before ???? You dont sound too confident ;-)
Yes and no. I can do things that are simple, simple but time consuming, but I prefer to stay away from complex. I built out my whole HA/HTPC system, ran the wiring for the plasma, just did it today for the Aprilaire [ran through crawl space & walls]. I don't consider any of that complex as it was just a ton of elbow grease.

However, I'm wondering whether to put security in the same category that I do brakes on my car. I can do a lot of DIY on the car, but I won't touch brakes even though they're damn simple. Theory being - if I screw something up, people get hurt.

If it's "just" wiring, then I'm cool. But if I gotta deal with stuff like calculating impedance, analyzing resistors, getting more than "basic" stuff, then I need to ask the question.

Unless, of course, it'll cost $1500 in labor to do all of this, in which case I'm suddenly an expert :D
Hi Ivb


Its not brain surgery but like anything it sure helps if you have done it before.....

In my post i sent to the wrong area i stated the following.....

Before removing the old caddx panel walk test your exsisting system and confirm the zones status , ie bedroom 1 is zone 2 lounge is zone 1 ect...document this......This will give you some reference later if you get confused.....

Before opening the caddx panel you may need to put it into maint mode as it should be tamper protected...so best not to do this task late in the evening in case you set the alarm off...

Mark all cables before disconnection ..ie zone 1 zone2 ect.....ensure you identify the + and - on cables that go to external sirens or strobes.......once everything is marked then power down and disconnect the batttery and remove the wiring.....


I would only suggest you do the discoonection if you have plenty of time to do it and dont mind if your system is down for a day or two........

HTH
Frank
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
IVB;

Go over this How-To on installing a security system as it contains an explanation of end of line resistors.

One thing you will need to do of course is locate the panel itself. Can you take a picture of it and post it here? Would particulary like to see the terminals where all the wires are connected to the panel itself.
 

electron

Administrator
Staff member
Frank's reported post:
Hi IVB

If have the time then im sure you could do the changeover yourself.....

Firstly before ripping out the old panel , i would walk test the system and verify which sensor is on which zone ,same for doors and windows...you may need your better half to assist here....

Mark all cables before disconection , ie zone 1 ,zone2 etc...
With external sirens strobes etc also mark which wire is postive /negative ......

Also the installer should have put the E.O.L (end of line) resistors at the sensor end if not they will be located in the panel ...you may need to replace these to suit the elk-m1.

HTH
Frank
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
Not sure what you mean E, perhaps I should have explained my suggestion better. If the EOL resistors are installed at the sensor end, then the picture will show no resistors in the panel (thus the picture).

Of course there may be the case where no EOL's were installed at all, but I doubt it.

If the EOL's are inside the panel I was hoping to see the color code so we would know their values and see if they are indeed compatible with the Elk. This was my initial worry.

I didn't want to go into the disconnecting wires and measuring with a multimeter quite yet until this minimal information was obtained! :D
 

IVB

Senior Member
Huge thanks for the help, guys. This is really helping me understand how this stuff works. And, in a seriously embarassing fashion, my wife pointed out that the panel is located in my daughters' bedroom closet. [on other side of wall from the transformer]. As I almost never go in there, I didn't even realize it was there. On the upside, I am starting to understand how this whole thing works.

I just opened it up, and et voila, I think I see EOLR's. That might actually make things simpler - i(or installer) won't try and re-use any of them, just rip it out and add Elk-supported stuff.

I took a few pics. Rather than shrink/compress & post them here, I'll just put them on my website. They are 800K-900K images; if you want them smaller, please let me know and i'll put a shrunken copy there.

http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/temp/panel.JPG

http://www.myhometheaterpc.com/temp/panel_close.JPG

One more question: Will all my current equipment work with the Elk and new EOLRs, or is there a chance it wouldn't work?
 

BraveSirRobbin

Moderator
EDIT: Those do look like EOL resistors. Note that the Elk uses 2.2k EOL resistors.

I personally don't use EOL's at all, but that's just my opinion.

As far as "current equipment working with the Elk" this depends.

Do you have glass sensors, motion sensors, smoke detectors, keypads, etc... along with the common magnetic contact sensors for your doors and windows? The ELK will not be compatible with your present keypads, but hopefully there are four wires running to their locations back to your panel so you can replace them with the Elks.

If the motion and glass sensors are standard 12 volt with contact closure, then they will work with the Elk. You should add up how many you have so we can do a "rough" calculation of the 12 volt supply's current capability that you would need, but just looking at your panel (amount of zones), I don't think that will be a problem. Also note that these sensors require four wires running to them (two for 12 volt power and two for the contact sensor).

One thing I would do though is ring out that wiring after you rip out the panel and check for continuity/shorts/leakage just to make sure you aren't introducing any past problems before you connect it to your Elk. But again, this is just my opinion. Read over that How-To I linked to earlier. Have you ever used a multimeter?

Lots of professional installers on line here plus we also have Elk's chief engineer as a Cocooner as well (Spanky). FrankMc has also given a lot of advice and I hope he continues to do so (thanks Frank). :D

The Elk is not my specialty so I'm going to defer any more complex Elk questions to the many Cocooners who have a lot more experience with this system.
 

Spanky

Senior Member
If you have EOL resistors installed at the control ( lazy installer), then take them out of the circuit and reprogram the hardware definition of each zone in the M1 to "Normally Closed". This way you do not need an EOL resistor. EOL resistors just add another level of confusion and are many times not used in residential installation.

Welcome to the M1 Family.
:D
 
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