Selling a Home with DIY HA

[ginigma]

Just curious. I know that Home Automation can be a plus or minus when buying/selling a home. I'm interested in hearing different opinions on that.

Also, do most people leave their install when selling a home and start over with newer/better technology in their new home? I'm talking Insteon, UPB, Zwave, not hardwired systems which you really can't take with you. What do you do with HA servers? Leave them and provide instructions to the new owners?

 

[shenandoah75]

imho, it is/will be a major selling point... unless it's unsightly (read: my closet) and too difficult to use

Think about not having to go out to two outdoor sprinkler timers to change programming, not having to go to the sprinkler timer, solar control to adjust those things (esp in hot climates). Lighting control (not going outside to plug in christmas lights), Whole house audio - also definately a plus. I think that the A/V control is where people who have never seen it before would be baffled, but the upside is too strong.

I bought my house with "smart home features" stuff from 1995 installed. The Moose security panel, the intercom / radio system were yanked upon closing knowing i'd replace.



the downside is the CQC licensing... (if you use CQC) i've hoping Dean revisits this

-brad

 

[ver0776]

I think Options are the way to go. When I sell the vCrib, I will list a price Stripped, w/Light Switches and Wiring, and Fully Operational with 1-year of basic support.

The support option will be the most complicated one to write up and the most costly for the buyers, but then they get to live in the house exactly the way it was demonstrated to them... Bonus for me too though as I will get to buy all new hardware for my next house. I really hope they buy it with the lighting at least so I can get out from under my Insteon investment and buy something decent hehehe.

Just keep selling in mind when doing DIY.... Make sure your cable runs will work with other systems that the new owners may buy, etc. Like my DS10a won't help them unless they use certain systems.... So in every case possible, I run wiring so they can use a cheap alarm panel if they want...


Vaughn

 

[Steve]

Amother perspective is replacement costs. I guess this depends on what you have. how easy it is to use and maintan and use. If you have alot of equipment that cost alot to put in and the buyer is not interested or not willing to pay for it (whether sold as a separate option or bundled into the homes price) and you won't even get near replacement value then I would probably take alot of it - at least the expensive and easy to remove stuff. If you got a decent return on the investement and enough money to at least come close to replacing then I would probably leave it. I think many people would find it a nice thing to have but many not want to pay extra for the house to get it.

 

[TakeFlight]

I'm going to have to disagree with some. The average person could care less about home automation. In fact, most people still wouldn't want it even if you showed them how cool it is. It would only be a "selling feature" if the person you are selling it to is already interested in it to begin with.

Take for example a sports car that has been heavily modified with performance upgrades. If you try to sell that car to the average public, it's not going to be worth anymore than a car that is completely stock. Only if you market it to a car performance enthusiast will you get more money for all the upgrades the car has.

I guess what I'm saying is, for the average person, automated lights, sprinklers, etc. are not worth paying more for a house. The house itself and the location of the house are the most important.

And don't get me wrong, I love home automation. But, you have to remember that the "automation world" you and I live in is not necessarily the same world the average person lives in.

 

[Sacedog]

I'm going to have to disagree with some. The average person could care less about home automation. In fact, most people still wouldn't want it even if you showed them how cool it is. It would only be a "selling feature" if the person you are selling it to is already interested in it to begin with.

Take for example a sports car that has been heavily modified with performance upgrades. If you try to sell that car to the average public, it's not going to be worth anymore than a car that is completely stock. Only if you market it to a car performance enthusiast will you get more money for all the upgrades the car has.

I guess what I'm saying is, for the average person, automated lights, sprinklers, etc. are not worth paying more for a house. The house itself and the location of the house are the most important.

And don't get me wrong, I love home automation. But, you have to remember that the "automation world" you and I live in is not necessarily the same world the average person lives in.

I will definately agree with you there. The house will not sell for more, however, it might sell faster. If there are two identical houses for sale, for the same price, and one had an automation system installed, that one would probably sell first (all other things being equal).

There is definately the potential to drive away some potention buyers though, unless your automation system is installed with a professional look (panels are neat inside, wires are dressed and labeled, etc.). If it looks like a DIY project when the buyer opens that door to the automation closet, they will be driven away.

 

[carry15+1]

And IMHO most buyer would shy away from anything that didn't have local support for service - something that isn't available in my area.

I try to keep my system as invisible as possible. The M1G would likely be accepted by most buyers. The Homevision is another story - and it can be taken off the wall and the house still works fine - but manually. My lamps are controlled by plug-in modules and all the switches operate fine and look just like all the other decora switches in the house. My outside lighting controls are in a weatherproof junction box with a photo cell and a switch to toggle between PC and HA control. When I kick the bucket it should be pretty easy for my wife to undo all my fun projects.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I'm also thinking that DIY home automation aspects would not go well with a sell of a home. Let me ask two questions:

1. Can you NOT tinker with your system say for more than a month and have it FULLY operate? This includes not having to restart a PC for updates, not having to manually restart anything (computer, programs, etc...) after a power outage, etc...

2. Would YOU yourself purchase a heavily modded "DIY" system composed of various vendor parts (that you may not be familiar with) merged together in a PC environment?

Now if you had a canned (NON-PC) hardwired lighting system, or canned automated pool system, that's a little different.

Again, JMHO!

 

[JohnWPB]

Not really any good advice here really, but just a side note

I just purchased my first home, and I sure as hell wish it would have all done for me when I bought it! LOL! Would save me a lot of cost and work for sure! This of course, as mentioned really just applies to us HA geeks for the most part, and probably would not be a major selling point to most.

I would imagine that most of us in the Cocoon forums would love to have purchased a home that was wired, and all set up for HA. Of course it's not going to be exactly the way we would want it, but it is so much easier to start with something, and just tweak it out.

 

[shenandoah75]

To BSR's point,

this is exactly why i use the elk for lighting/sprinkler/relay, etc control and refuse to go direct-to PC based well not exactly the main reason, but one of them

-brad

 

[electron]

Same reason here Brad. My entire HA system is hardware based, all using Elk components as the 'core'. I have an Elk touchscreen which doesn't require any maintenance, but controls everything. My goal is that the products do not require any maintenance in case the home owner desires the functionality, but doesn't know how (or doesn't want) to take care of it. At the same time, the home owner can hire a professional to make changes to the system, or try to figure it out on their own since there is plenty of support for all the hardware.

I also have a binder with 40 pages of color coded documentation, with many tables which indicate what does what, even how the power is distributed, and includes schematics of how to wire new things, including, but not limited to, serial port connections, ethernet connections, and more. Very important if you are interested in selling your hardware with the house.

I do have a home automation PC, but it doesn't do much right now, and even when it does more, I probably will not leave it behind just for support reasons. Any young couple looking for a home that is 'future ready' will probably jump on this kind of house.

Also, this kind of system is something that can be operated by my wife, should something happen to me.

 

[IVB]

Same reason here Brad. My entire HA system is hardware based, all using Elk components as the 'core'. I have an Elk touchscreen which doesn't require any maintenance, but controls everything. My goal is that the products do not require any maintenance in case the home owner desires the functionality, but doesn't know how (or doesn't want) to take care of it. At the same time, the home owner can hire a professional to make changes to the system, or try to figure it out on their own since there is plenty of support for all the hardware.

I also have a binder with 40 pages of color coded documentation, with many tables which indicate what does what, even how the power is distributed, and includes schematics of how to wire new things, including, but not limited to, serial port connections, ethernet connections, and more. Very important if you are interested in selling your hardware with the house.

I do have a home automation PC, but it doesn't do much right now, and even when it does more, I probably will not leave it behind just for support reasons. Any young couple looking for a home that is 'future ready' will probably jump on this kind of house.

Also, this kind of system is something that can be operated by my wife, should something happen to me.

Dang, now that's the most compelling reason to use an Elk to directly control all, and use an HA-PC for extras that i've ever seen. I still don't buy the whole "hardware controllers are more reliable than software controllers" bit, but "ease of resale" is certainly something I can't argue with.

 

[ginigma]

Thanks. A lot of great perspectives here.

BSR has a good point. How often are we tweaking our systems (PC based). Me? A few times a week, but I enjoy it, and I have learned a lot from this and other HA forums. I don't mind the PC upkeep (patches, software upgrades, etc.) but I'm sure a technophobe who buys the house isn't going to want to do that.

However, as many good things I've heard about the Elk (I don't have one), I think it still poses a problem for a new house owner, since the HA components are connected to it. For an alarm panel, it's probably a no brainer, but for controlling lights, irrigation, motion sensors (for lighting), etc. a new homeowner may look at it and wonder WTF?

Like Dan, most of my system is well documented, and this brings up that I should review and update it. And all you who don't have things documented, start now, so if you're ever laid up (or worse), your spouse can figure out what to do when she can't turn the lights on. Sometimes we get so used to the automation, we forget things still work manually. [Reminds me of the story of the person who couldn't get into her car because the key fob battery must have died, and she couldn't unlock the doors. She called roadside service to come out and unlock the doors for her. When the guy got there, he asked to see her key fob. Well, she had the physical key on the key ring, so he just put the key in the lock to unlock the door.]

Personally an automated house wouldn't sway me if I was buying it. If I recognized the components, I would be fine with it, but if it was completely home grown, that would be a turnoff since support would be a problem. I'd probably have to rip most of it our and replace with components I know about and trust.

 

[mtwalsh367]

I also agree with the last post and several other's opinions. I would hesitate to purchase a home that was HA enabled unless I was confident that it was bullet proof, trouble free stuff and I knew of a company that would be able to support it. This essentially knocks out alot of the DIY installs. Even the Elk installs run into challenges as soon as you branch out beyond just the basic security panel features. I started with using the Elk just as a security panel and this was pretty much trouble free. Once I added lighting control via Insteon my maintenance and tinkering factor went up considerably. Occsionally the Elk would lose an Insteon address, a lightning surge took out an Insteon controller, etc. As an HA enthusiast I would apprciate having a house that was pre-wired for home LAN, security sensors, audio/visual, etc but would likely end up installing my own DIY stuff so I knew how it worked and how to maintain it. If I was not an HA enthusiast and didn't have a bunch of extra money I would certianly steer clear of an HA setup that might requrie me to bring in an electrician to remove the stuff to bring the home back to a more typcial environment.

I love the DIY HA approach and enjoy spending a couple hours a month tweaking this rule or adding a new switch here or there. If I were to sell my house today I would probably pull all of my HA lighting controlls and switches out and replace them with the originals. I would probably leave the basic Elk security system because this might be viewed as a selling feature by itself.

Just my opinion.

 

[ver0776]

I can't really argue, because if you HA guys are scared to buy an automated home, you are probably right about everyone else feeling that way.

However, I still believe that even though I am 100% DIY that I can sell the house with its automation in tact. I don't have a lot of the hardware you guys have though, so maybe I see this place differently. Another issue is the sells job, I see my house as a 1 of a kind creation, and I would not sell it to someone who wanted to turn it back in to a dumb box. That is like giving your puppy to someone you know hates animals and will stick it out in there back yard and negelct it. I don't think a real estate agent will sell my DIY house, but I know I could sell it myself.

I realize if you need money and have to dump your home, best to strip it and move it. I am not thinking from that position either. I am thinking when I want to upgrade my house, the Virtual Crib will go on the market, and I only want to sell it to someone who wants to live in the Virtual Crib 1.0 =)

Now for the technicals: Since I use opensource software, there are no licensing fees and everything if just thiers now. The lighting will work even if they abandon the HA software, so no loss there. If they change their mind and want an ELK, all the wiring is right there and can be swapped out in an afternoon... Troubleshooting hardware is as simple as the little manuals that come with Insteon and Zwave products, nothing anyone should be afraid of. My roommate is a 22-year old waitress and I let her configure all my newZ-wave stuff herself... If people are afraid of your stuff, then you may have to demonstrate and sell it... show them your docs.... give them a file with links to all the products you have and links to manuals...

When I bought this house the outlets were ungrounded, switches were old and there was noise on all of the lines, lightbulbs popped and burned out all the time... If I went into a house that had nice lights and everything was automated, I would know the owner was smart and that the house was not in need of electrical work. To have dimmable lighting and remotes, even without the PC would be very attactive to me... The fact that the house has interactive maps and graphics showing every device in the house would make me wet myself. It would lead me to believe they cared about the other aspects of the home too...

Normal is not good, special is good. Making my house the only thing like it available in the city will bring a better price. Yes, fewer people will be interested but that is ok! I am not trying to sell it to 100 people, just 1. Just because most people don't care about your hotrod Mustang mods, you don't tear it apart and make a stock Mustage out of it, you sell it to someone who likes hotrod Mustangs.

I will not turn my wonderful smarthome into a turd so stupid people can live in it. I will sell to someone smart enough to LOVE my home. I am not scared to support it, but I will streamline it, dumb it down a little AND BE REAL CLEAR on the support terms.

You have to know your home and love your home enough for it to show in the sell job. If you love it, they will love it. If you don't love it or can't keep it stable then tear your crap out and move on. I am willing to sell my home in move in condition with stereos, plamsa on the walls, everything... I am also will to pull out any of those items they don't need.

Oh no, maybe I am getting too attached to my home. Maybe I need to change my TTS voice as maybe I am falling for Crystal hehehe.

Vaughn