Still Pondering Camera Options

upstatemike

Senior Member
Not going to do anything till it gets a lot warmer outside but I am still trying to come up with a long term strategy for cameras. My current plan is to go with Panasonic wired IP cameras but I'm still notsure this is the best option. My thoughts on the Panasonics are:

PRO-

-Works with Elk TS07

-Works stand-alone from browser so they can be used in other ways in addition to the automation system interface.

-Includes Pan/Tilt/Zoom

-Very easy wiring... net + power in one cat-5.

-No separate weather enclosure required

-Good operating temp range... no heater required.


CON-

-Low light but no IR mode for night vision.

-Limited options compared to separate camera + IP server systems

-Video quality good but not as good as Super HAD type optics

I think the built-in Pan/Tilt/Zoom will keep me leaning toward wired Panasonic IP but I want to research all of the options.
 
Gimme a part # and I can give you a better opinion.


Panasonics are generally a good pick but from what you are saying I think you are looking at consumer products.

If it is consumer stuff you can probably forget about real low light performance, in IP cameras performance costs.
 
CollinR said:
Gimme a part # and I can give you a better opinion.


Panasonics are generally a good pick but from what you are saying I think you are looking at consumer products.

If it is consumer stuff you can probably forget about real low light performance, in IP cameras performance costs.
A Panasonic HCM331A costs $650, is in an outdoor enclosure, has PTZ, and is supported by the Elk TS07.
 
IMHO thats not a good deal.

I am ~guessing~ the Elk supports it because it is JPEG / MJPEG, this is very easy to integrate a live (of kinda live in this case) feed because you can just call the URL for the JPEG from http without concern for codecs like you would with an MPEG4 or H.264 camera.

It is a PT only, no zoom. Not a big deal for you IMO.

Do you already have one of these in your system (signature)?

I am somewhat limited on cameras that small, is the tiny size a main priority?
 
CollinR said:
IMHO thats not a good deal.

I am ~guessing~ the Elk supports it because it is JPEG / MJPEG, this is very easy to integrate a live (of kinda live in this case) feed because you can just call the URL for the JPEG from http without concern for codecs like you would with an MPEG4 or H.264 camera.

It is a PT only, no zoom. Not a big deal for you IMO.

Do you already have one of these in your system (signature)?

I am somewhat limited on cameras that small, is the tiny size a main priority?
No I don't have one. (I have a Panasonic phone system). The size is not really an issue. I was more concerned about the P/T controls working OK from an Elk touch screen and from a PC browser. I also want to stick with a camera that uses a single Cat-5 cable for everything (video, power, and P/T control).
 
Where would you be mounting it?

How far away is the object you wish to capture?

ie
Right next to my doorbell button. / 3 feet'
Under the soffit on the gable of my roof. / 2200'

Any strange enviornmental issues? How cold does it get "up" there. :lol:

After re-reading my post I think I could have been easily misunderstood.

There is nothing wrong with that camera I just don't think it is good bang for the buck. That $650 could go a long way into megapixel IP technology. An analog camera that is of the same quality might bring $350, since that one is IP it's $650. I just don't like letting people make that choice without knowing that up front. So good camera I dunno about the price point, in 5 years those cameras will probably be the absolute baseline due to their VGA (640x480) output which is usually worse then your quality analog 480 line counterpart.

This is also not a true low light camera, it may work kinda but not like one designed for it. IR on the camera itself can also be a REALLY bad idea, don't fall into the hype. If you want IR support get a remote illuminator.

Also keep in mind that the PT functions of that camera are VERY limited, IIRC it was 40* pan and 20* tilt. The mechanicals of making the cameras move is always my concern, and usually what dies first... Me personally I would rather have a better picture and more cameras fixed cameras then one PTZ in a residential situation. This does assume you are recording evidence.




Now I wanna know more about how the Elk is controlling this thing. Is it just http like a webpage, or actually putting the cameras webserver in a frame? If this is the case a bunch of stuff opens up to you.

Will you be recording the video too?


You can run any camera that does not have PTZ or IR on it from a single Cat5 cable, so no worries there. ;) Many with IR can be as well but I ALWAYS suggest using 18/2 for power to the cameras and lights. The mechanicals in most PTZs prevent them from running safely over Cat5.
 
I will be mounting these on various porches to the side of the doors to see visitors. They will be a little above head height but low enough so the porch light is not in the line of sight. They will be able to see a profile view of visitors from about 10 feet and will also look out past the porch to view cars in the driveway, weather conditions, etc.

Temps lately have been between zero and 20 degrees Farenheit but 20 below zero is not unusual.

I don't mind using an IR illuminator if the camera can take advantage of it... the panasonic is color only and I don't think it can see IR at all.

I don't know about the details of the Elk Pan Tilt controls. I don't think it is just the camera web page because the touch areas on the screen need to match up with the camera web page buttons somehow don't they?

I have not thought about recording. My priority is to see visitors before answering the door and to view things remotely across the Internet.
 
Upstate, you can get some nice 1/3" Sony SuperHad cameras with IR for $200-300. That, coupled with a ninja mount and appropriate plug-in can be viewed and controlled thru Homeseer.

You won't likely have any problems with the cold. I run a variety of cameras outdoors with minimal protection (just under eaves) and have had no problems with temperatures that have reached -20 F.
 
I'll have to research the ninja mount . I'm not familiar with that.

I don't mind using a PC to record cameras if I decide to do recording at all (I probably won't). Also not clear on what is required to use cameras with homeseer. Do I really want to process video on my HA machine? Wouldn't there be a risk of resources constraints? I guess I need to learn more about this approach.
 
I would really evaluate the need for a moving camera, fixed cameras for doors are plenty. Also cheaper and more reliable.
 
upstatemike said:
I'll have to research the ninja mount . I'm not familiar with that.
Hey.... I suggested that approach 8 posts ago! :lol:

I have 3 ninja's setup outside now. (I got them a few weeks ago.)
THere is nothing that can compare to a cam that can pan and tilt! I've had stationary cams for years and these Ninja's are the best thing since sliced bread.
Knowing that they are X-10, I'm keeping my fingers crossed as far as longevity.
 
CollinR said:
I would really evaluate the need for a moving camera, fixed cameras for doors are plenty. Also cheaper and more reliable.
If I follow this advice, then I could use analog super HAD cameras but I'm still not clear how I get the picture onto my HA touch screen (which will initially be the Elk TS07) or how to view them remotely over the Internet. IP cameras are simple because the picture is already on the network available to all systems via http... Not as obvious to me how I would architect an analog setup.
 
You would get something like the AverMedia NV5000 and turn a PC into a DVR, with web access and a PDA client. I am actually planning on using a ninja mount myself, now that I have confirmed that the mount remembers the 4 preprogrammed positions after a power disconnect. I am going to hook up the palmpad remote to the Elk M1, so the camera can move to certain areas based on activity
 
electron said:
You would get something like the AverMedia NV5000 and turn a PC into a DVR, with web access and a PDA client. I am actually planning on using a ninja mount myself, now that I have confirmed that the mount remembers the 4 preprogrammed positions after a power disconnect. I am going to hook up the palmpad remote to the Elk M1, so the camera can move to certain areas based on activity
Correct, you wouldn't have to actually record it. You could use just a simple TV tuner/encoder and use VideoLan to stream it.


You'll have to know something about how that Elk unit works though. Many CCTV DVR setups have an http interface for mobile phones. That will normally just be a jpeg file and java refresh on the server side.



post-38-1142135296.jpg


This the porch on the right or left?


After looking at it, I'm thinking WIDE angle lenses. :eek:
 
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