Ultimate Protocol List?

[MrGibbage]

Why isn't there a "Ultimate HA Protocol List" like the Ultimate hardware list and ultimate software list? Those of us getting started with HA have to decide among probably close to a dozen or more different protocols, all with very different characteristics, compatable hardware, performance, and reliability.

That being said, what protocol do you use and why? If I am starting from scratch, what protocol would you recommend I use? I am pretty much open to anything.

 

[upstatemike]

ULTIMATE PROTOCOL LIST

1 Insteon

2 See number 1

END

 

[Squintz]

I am sure there are more than a dozen. I will start off with the few that I know of and the rest can follow.

Z-Wave (my favorite)
UPB (don't know enough about it)
Insteon (don't enough about it)
Clipsal C-Bus (Oz)
Lutron GrafikEye
Lutron RadioRA
X10
DLS (http://www.digitallighting.com/protocolfolder/protocol2.htm)
ZigBee
Control4(proprietary zigbee)
Crestron(pro only)
Homedepot carries a few brands of controllable lighting devices from a variety of manufactures.

The list goes on and on. So perhaps a good matrix would not be a bad idea but when it comes down to picking a lighting system it really has to do with the situation you are in. You can mix and even match some technologies. The first three in my list and x10 are by far the most popular on Cocoontech. But if you go to the charmed quark site and do a search for the resent poll I put up about lighting you will find that it is spread out evenly. Eveyone has a differnt opinion including an opinion on looks and feeling of the switches.

I would suggest that you do your homework on a few and then when you think you have it narrowed down buy a single switch and give it a try. If you don't like it try another until you do.

 

[MrGibbage]

What have you seen at Home Depot? I must be looking in the wrong section.

 

[Squintz]

In the electrical section of all my local homedepots there are Switches and Plugin modules that are controllable by RF remotes that come with the devices. Sorry I don't remember the names of the manufactures right now. Chances are its something like leviton since they carry a lot of their stuff. Also, Radio Shack has been known to carry some x10 stuff and GE stuff in the past.

 

[Mike]

I think you are referring to Lutron items. I've seen their remote controlled switches at Home Depot.

 

[MrGibbage]

What protocol do the Lutron switches use?

 

[ginigma]

The Lutron's I saw at HD are the Maestro's. They have other models also. I was looking at the Maestro because it's IR. There's no real protocol: You connect it like a regular dimmer switch, but it has an IR receiver in the faceplate and a small IR remote. Unfortunately I wanted two of them in a 2-gang box, controlled independently, which the Lutrons don't do.

Then I heard about Insteon and the spending began....

 

[MrGibbage]

What do you like so much about Insteon? How many devices do you have? Is there anything that you don't like about them? I had pretty much thrown them out because it sounded too much like X-10, but I'd like to hear why you like them so much.

 

[jeffx]

ULTIMATE PROTOCOL LIST

1 Insteon

2 See number 1

END

I 2nd that emotion

1. 100% reliable, grid network, instant response.
2. Price - Icon switches and modules @ $20.
3. Price
4. Price

5. By the end of the year, your mind will boggle with all the Insteon devices that will be available (sorry, can't post the list again due to NDA).

 

[ginigma]

The only negative is lack of devices. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully committed to Insteon, but I'm waiting for more of the "fun" devices such as IR interfaces, motion detectors, thermostats, sensors, IR interfaces (did I mention I'm waiting for an IR interface for my remote). Yes, I know it's on the list for Q2.

 

[MrGibbage]

Does Insteon work good with the ELK M1 (gold)? If you search for "Insteon" at the ELK site, you get zero hits. I see some mention of it here, but it's not clear. Is it just a hack, or are they running them in X-10 mode? Also, does Insteon seem to be affected by line noise as much as X-10 seemed to be?

 

[SmartLabsMike]

Does Insteon work good with the ELK M1 (gold)? If you search for "Insteon" at the ELK site, you get zero hits. I see some mention of it here, but it's not clear. Is it just a hack, or are they running them in X-10 mode? Also, does Insteon seem to be affected by line noise as much as X-10 seemed to be?

Yes the M1 supports INSTEON-enabled devices.

No, INSTEON devices are not as susceptible to line noise as X10. INSTEON messages are broadcast on a different frequency on the powerline and with every device being a repeater the network gets stronger as you add more.

 

[tanstaaf1]

A lot has happened to advance Insteon even since last Fall. Icon came out somewhere in the Fall, I believe, lowering the price threshold for a really high quality switch to $19.95 (or less on sale). In January, Insteon was being criticized for possible quality issues and lack of adequate software support to map and maintain the network. However, the quality concerns seem to have lifted, and I can tell you first hand that SmartHome makes good right away on any possible defects or desired returns. The release of the Insteon beta of PowerHome has removed most concerns that Insteon networks couldn't be adequately maintained via software. Until PowerHome, one of the advantages touted for UPB was that it had a good network explorer; now Insteon has one too.

In my opinion (I'm not that advanced, except in making mistakes, so keep that in mind) UNLESS (1) UPB or Zwave soon makes dramatic moves - especially in terms of meeting Insteon's price point or (2) some major and unfixable glitch is discovered in the Insteon protocol (increasingly unlikely by the day, imo) then I think Insteon is going to sweep the field of home automation switch protocols by the end of this year.

Zwave is late to the game and UPB appears to have effectively defaulted its leadership already by not meeting Insteon's price point vs. quality. UPB still has a considerly more mature and tested base, but given the price difference I expect that to be reversed this year.

Buy a couple of Icon switches and get hooked; they are very useful even without a dedicated controller.

 

[upstatemike]

The only negative is lack of devices. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully committed to Insteon, but I'm waiting for more of the "fun" devices such as IR interfaces, motion detectors, thermostats, sensors, IR interfaces (did I mention I'm waiting for an IR interface for my remote). Yes, I know it's on the list for Q2.

I agree that the Insteon product mix is the biggest problem right now. Too many iterations of the same thing (dimmers) while other key items are not available at all. Even though it is quicker to bring different variations of the same product to market, in the long run it is detrimental because all those "short" development times used to produce different dimmer versions add up to push off the day that other product categories come to market.

It could be argued that all these different dimmer versions are not even needed. A 1000 watt V2 dimmer will work in a 600 watt application, and people who prefer the ICON look can just put an ICON paddle on a V2 dimmer to hide the light bar. (This would also let you keep the ICON look but still choose your LED color).

While I'm sure the low cost of ICON takes some market share from X-10, I suspect that most ICON sales are made at the expense of V2 sales. So having all these dimmers just increases the cost of maintaining multiple product lines. Better to have one "universal" dimmer and use the savings from scales of economy in manufacturing plus reduced admin overhead to maintain the aggressive pricing.

There is also rumour of an ICON keypad. For what? Unless it has some dramatic new feature not found in the existing V2 keypad dimmer it just serves to dilute KeypadLinc V2 sales and further delay other key products by diverting development resources from them. It is far more important to have a relay KeypadLinc V2 for CFL fixtures than another version of a keypad dimmer.

Another huge gap that needs to be filled in the retrofit area is a surface mount control of some sort. Either a wall-mount plug-in controller or a battery "stick-a-switch" type controller are needed in retrofit situations where in-wall devices are not feasible. This should be a much much much higher priority than an ICON keypad or any further dimmer iterations.