UPB Device Firmware Revisions

[rmcneil]

Has anybody seen, heard of, or made their own chart of UPB device firmware revisions? It would be nice to have a reference chart showing who added what to which devices.

It sure would make troubleshooting easier. For instance, I've now installed my SA Starter Kit and my switches are painfully slow, even though SA is supposedly shipping Gen II stuff. I can't configure the response time in UPStart, even though this was supposed to be available now. If I had access to a firmware chart it would be easy to see if I have Gen II or not and what other features I may or may not be lacking.

I also purchased an HAI scene switch and IR remote, but the switch doesn't react at all to the remote. If I had access to HAI's firmware release chart, I could easily determine if this is a Rev A switch (No IR) or a Rev B switch (with IR).

Maybe it's wishful thinking, but it would be nice if the manufacturers would at least put somewhere on their websites what the currently shipping firmware revisions are so a person knows if they are getting reasonably current stuff or not.

FWIW, my Firmware Numbers are:
SA US1-40 2.14
SA US2-40 1.11
HAI 38A00-1 01.01

Anybody know what the handwritten numbers on the back of the SA switches mean? Are those the preprogrammed unit ids since this was shipped as a starter kit or do they have some other meaning?

Thanks,
RM

 

[hucker]

Not sure if this helps but I just downloaded the latest UPStart and it has the programmable delay stuff in it. I added a 140 to test it and I can see that it supposedly will operate with a 300ms delay (default is 750 )

 

[rmcneil]

Not sure if this helps but I just downloaded the latest UPStart and it has the programmable delay stuff in it. I added a 140 to test it and I can see that it supposedly will operate with a 300ms delay (default is 750 )

I downloaded UPStart before I bought anything and saw this as well. When UPStart finds and adds my actual switches that feature is no longer there, so I must have older switches. Upstart must know by version number or something else internal what features to allow in the configuration. I can set those features in "virtual" switches, just not in my actual switches. Maybe I'll tinker with trying to manipulate firmware numbers in a virtual switch just to see what happens.

Thanks,
RM

 

[LightenUP]

SA does not have GEN II yet. They need more coaxing.

 

[rmcneil]

SA does not have GEN II yet. They need more coaxing.

Really? I was a fence sitter and among the nudges that got me off the fence was this line from Martin:

"With the new UPB switches (at least Simply Automated and the new PCS
switches) there is an adjustment you can make in the programming on how long
to wait for the double tap."​

That was when I downloaded UPStart and confirmed that some SA switches did indeed appear to have a configurable response time. There is so much different info floating around out there, it just makes sense to publish a firmware revision history to keep things straight.

RM

 

[rfdesq]

PCS changed the logic in Gen II. Rather than wait for the second tap the switches are programmed to react first and listen for the second tap last. Does that make sense?

 

[DeLicious]

from what i understand, "gen ii" is a protocol change... SA doesn't have "gen ii", but did upgrade firmware recently to allow modifcation of the response times. my guess is what you got in the starter kit was older firmware switches since it was probably packaged as a starter kit before the firmware upgrade was available.

 

[Steve]

Well it can certainly all be very confusing. I personally think there is more than technology behind the 'Gen II' thing, but that is purely speculation. To me, a generational change requires a significant change to the core protocol, not just feature upgrades or exposing existing functionality as changeable parameters in UPStart (as in the delay time settings).

But a big question is why PCS and HAI has announce GenII and SAI has not. Perhaps this quote from SAI will clear up SAI's position:

GEN II UPB CORE
Simply Automated has decided not to adopt the new UPB CORE at this time. We have done exhaustive testing and are not convinced that it is “better” .
Very simplistically, the new core tries to mask the effects of noise and attenuation by increasing transmission levels and reduces receive sensitivity of the UPB devices themselves.

In a residence with no significant noise or attenuation issues the Gen II core and Gen I core work equally well and are compatible with each other.

As noise levels and or attenuation of the UPB signal increases, we have had much more successful, long lasting, results using mediation devices that greatly reduce or, in most cases, completely eliminate noise and attenuation at their source.

CONTINUOUS PRODUCT IMPROVEMENT
Simply Automated is continuously working to improve the functionality and reliability of our products.

Yes we have added timer functions to several of our products in recent months.
We have made reliability, functionality, and/or flexibility improvements to nearly every product we make during the coarse of the year.

So it appears they do not necessarily believe that Gen II is truly a generational change. I know they were the first to change the delay parameters as I tested that many months ago. That was simply a firmware change, not a core protocol generational change. Simply taking advantage of things that were already in the protocol or exposing them in new firmware is also just 'upgrades' to me, not a new generation. Just like the M1 has evolved and has had significant improvements with new firmware updates, but those are simply updates. The M2 (or whatever it may be called) will be a generational change.

I am not an expert here, and certainly do not have all the facts of everything or anything that may have changed in the protocol itself, or other factors at work here, but this is merely my perception.

 

[LightenUP]

Well I can say I don't know what the mediation devices are that were mentioned in the article. I'm assuming filteration but typically that's easier said than done. I have used a X-10 filter on a TV that allowed a transmitter to work that was on the same circuit. Without the filter the transmitter could not work several things in the house. This luckily fit behind the TV but what if it didn't?

Time is money, if the NEW firmware isn't effected by noise as much than how can you justify trying to find noise, then trying to filter it to get the older firmware working? Plus convincing all our locations to go through the process of battling noise is loosing business for myself and ultimately Simply Automated.

What I can tell you is the new CORE FIRMWARE in PCS and HAI has proven itself to me in very noisy homes that can't be comming from in the house, outside source.

I had to put in PCS genII and it works fine even though the noise is still extreme. It's proven itself to me several times.

Look this is not wishful thinking, it is a huge improvement. It really is a significant change to the protocal itself that SA needs to do. I feel bad about selling to a home owner something that isn't the best plus local noise could come at any time with a bad triac in another dimmer somewhere in the house that decides to cause a problem at a later date.

I have been using modules with the NEW firmware for a while and will not use anything but. These modules have been much more reliable. I'm even leary of outlets or harwired devices w/o this new firmware.

SA is the company of choice for price and flexibility but let me tell you...I'm loosing faith that they want to improve upon the reliability when I've even sent noisy devices for review especially knowing they affected my network.

Another question, if it's not worth doing then why would the inventor of the technology go with the NEW STUFF...CAUSE of $$$$$ ??

 

[rmcneil]

Back to the theme of the thread. We don't have a table full of data, but for those that might be considering a purchase, and/or otherwise want to know, according to SA, these are the currently shipping units and they have the user configurable response times:

US1-40/US11-40 firmware 2.18
US2-40 firmware 1.13

The 1-40 also has the timer function.

(Thanks to hucker in the other thread and Ken at SA)