UPB Noise (Outback problem?)

[ScottKemp]

Hi. I am trying to get UPB working in my house.


I have 6 outback FX3648 inverters stacked to make 240 A/C. UPStart is reporting a "severe" noise level (the meter is pegged). Has anyone used UPB with inverters, Outback in particular?

I called Outback and they said, Yes, their inverters are "noisy" in that frequency range, even though it is a true sine wave. They were unable to give me any advice.

When I run straight off the generator, I get no noise at all. So I know it is something with the inverter assembly.

Any filters that I can put on the line? I ordered a Leviton filter that goes around the neutral wire, but it is designed for X-10, so I am not sure if it will work.

Any ideas? I really want to use UPB!


Scott Kemp

 

[rfdesq]

I would contact Powerline Control Systems directly www.pcslighting.com or [email protected].

 

[Event5]

I had a similar situation with an inverter and I worked with Brad at Simply Automated. I beleive they now have filters available for situations like this. Their contact info can be found Here.

 

[Steve]

Yes, either PCS or SAI can help you with filtering. You will probably have to stack a few together for a current usage.

 

[ScottKemp]

Thanks,

I am working with Brad. I'll ask him about the filters on Monday.

 

[ScottKemp]

Here is the end of the story...


I couldn't get UPB to work in my situation. I worked with Brad Cone at Simply Automated extensively. They were very responsive and had great support, BTW.


Being off-grid, we make our own power with generators and inverters. When running strictly off the generator (bypassing the chargers/inverters) it would kind of work when the generator frequency was below 60.6hz. My generator (30kw desiel) runs between 59.3 and 61hz depending on the load, so this was a problem. It seems that UPB is pretty sensitive to the frequency. This was confirmed by Brad as well.


Even when the frequency was below the 60.6hz, the UPB could only pass simple packets (light on/off). Any configuration or longer length packets were not able to pass. We suspect this was because the frequency was not as stable as it needed to be because it speeds up and slows down every time a cylinder fires.


When running off the inverters with the generator off, the noise on the UPB meter was off the chart and no UPB communication was possible. I called Outback and confirmed that they use a switching frequency of 20khz which is right in the middle of the 5-40khz range UPB uses to communicate. So the inverters created tons of noise that UPB was simply unable to deal with.


I tried the Leviton X-10 (I know, different frequency) panel filter that wraps around the neutral wire. Didn't work.


I tried some filters that Simplay Automated is coming out with for UPB but that didn't work either.


I talked with the guys at Filter Concepts and they claim that 20khz is hard to make a filter for and for the power requirements I was looking at (100 amp/240V). Would be a big expensive filter that may/may not work. I didn't want to spend the money to try this solution.


So the UPB stuff went back to the store and I will be giving ZWave a chance.


Thanks for your advice.


Scott

 

[hucker]

Does this mean that when our power goes out and I fire up the generator I should assume that none of my UPB switches will work?

When selecting a generator is there a spec I can look for to verify operation with UPB? Luckily the need for a generator is a ways off but you can bet the WAF will be low when the power goes out, the generator comes on and the lights don't work....

 

[Steve]

Does this mean that when our power goes out and I fire up the generator I should assume that none of my UPB switches will work?

When selecting a generator is there a spec I can look for to verify operation with UPB? Luckily the need for a generator is a ways off but you can bet the WAF will be low when the power goes out, the generator comes on and the lights don't work....

I'll have to try that with my generator and see what happens. I remember when I tested it last I had local load control which should be enough in an emergency.

 

[Powersg]

If UPB has problems with inverters, will UPB work with Photovoltaics panels? The system we are look at installing is a grid attached system. But is will still have some king of inverters.