it's come down to this... please, please, somebody make a UPB whole house filter. still happening, once a week, no UPB communications are working due to powerline noise. i know it takes some pretty severe powerline noise to knock out UPB, but whatever it takes, I got it. plus, I'm fairly certain that the noise is originating outside my house because there are no changes within my house whenever the outage occurs. when i happen to be home and notice communications failing, i always check to see if something changed (air conditioner turned on? wife using a blender or electric stove?) and as far as I can tell, it's not us. so i'm begging, please, please somebody release a UPB whole house filter so no outside noise can get on the powerlines in my house and I can start trusting my UPB installation again.
UPB whole house filter
- Thread starter DeLicious
- Start date
AutomatedOutlet
Senior Member
Adam,
Please call me. There are a couple of different solutions to this. Madge had this same issue in her condo and it was fixed by installing a 15A ACT plug-in filter to absorb the noise.
Please call me. There are a couple of different solutions to this. Madge had this same issue in her condo and it was fixed by installing a 15A ACT plug-in filter to absorb the noise.
Wouldn't an X10 whole house noise blocking filter work just as well? I thought it filtered out all the noise. I use UPB and have an X10 whole house filter that seems to work but I can't tell for sure. I know that you are pretty sure it isn't coming from inside your house but I would keep looking. I spent 6 months confused as to what was causing the noise in my house and it turned out to be the microwave. It was a fluke that at the exact moment I was installing another module it stopped writing when my wife started making popcorn. I can see now that it is nearly impossible to catch some things because they aren't on long enough to catch in the act.
martin, i'll call you when i have a few minutes, but that may be a couple of days... or if you want to PM me with the details, that would be easier for me as well.
jasv, the thing is, it's not like it stops working for a few minutes. often, it stops working for several hours. and even if you're right and it is somehow coming from inside the house, at least the whole-house filter would eliminate outside possibilities and i wouldn't have to wonder about that anymore.
jasv, the thing is, it's not like it stops working for a few minutes. often, it stops working for several hours. and even if you're right and it is somehow coming from inside the house, at least the whole-house filter would eliminate outside possibilities and i wouldn't have to wonder about that anymore.
another reason why i'm pretty sure it's coming from outside the house...
last night, i was able to activate my 'going to bed' UPB link, which turns off every light except the reading lights at our bedside. so, the only things in the house that were on were those lamps, my daughter's lamp (which acts as her nightlight), and things that are always on (refrigerator, tv on standby, etc.). Even the air conditioners weren't running, so we can rule them out... well, sometime in the 20 minutes between activating the 'going to bed' link and the 'going to sleep link' (basically, just turning lights off), communications problems began happening, and the lights wouldn't go out.
Martin, I've been thinking about your suggestion (without having actually talked to you yet), and I'm curious as to how you fixed this problem with a plug-in filter. Does the plug-in filter only filter out the noise from the appliance you plug into it?
If anyone from SAI or PCS reads this and has an idea, I'm listening.
edit: spelling
last night, i was able to activate my 'going to bed' UPB link, which turns off every light except the reading lights at our bedside. so, the only things in the house that were on were those lamps, my daughter's lamp (which acts as her nightlight), and things that are always on (refrigerator, tv on standby, etc.). Even the air conditioners weren't running, so we can rule them out... well, sometime in the 20 minutes between activating the 'going to bed' link and the 'going to sleep link' (basically, just turning lights off), communications problems began happening, and the lights wouldn't go out.
Martin, I've been thinking about your suggestion (without having actually talked to you yet), and I'm curious as to how you fixed this problem with a plug-in filter. Does the plug-in filter only filter out the noise from the appliance you plug into it?
If anyone from SAI or PCS reads this and has an idea, I'm listening.
edit: spelling
Martin and Jim suggested that I plugin the filter as close as possible to the breaker box. In my case, nothing is plugged into the filter (no appliance, etc). It's just plugged in naked right under the panel - on the phase where I experience severe noise. Watching the real time stats in UpStart, I can see a marked drop in noise when the filter is plugged in. Unplug it and noise immediately jumps up.
I posted a few words about my issues [post="0"]here.[/post]
Maybe this link will work
http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry53619
I'm still not 100%, but the plugin filter definitely helped.
UPB transmits at 4-40 kHz. A whole house filter would be large... think something like an isolation transformer large enough to handle the current in your house. It would keep UPB in the house and noise out.
If you are certain the noise is coming from outside the house... I have a similar issue at night in my house... I have noise that keeps a switch in my kitchen from controlling the rest of the kitchen lights... but my timer (Model UCS-01) gets through to turn off the lights. There has been a lot of work going on to combat noise. The problem is characterizing the noise... and the trade offs when adjusting for any particular noise. Anyway, if the noise is on both phases, and not bleeding over from one phase to the other, a non-inverting phase coupler or two can help attenuate that noise. Noise that interrupts UPB is in the UPB range and has an amplitude large enough to interfere or saturate the receivers. If it is attenuated (the amplitude lowered) UPB can go through it. We (Simply Automated) are currently selling only inverting phase couplers. PCS and HAI sell the non-inverting phase couplers... or you can get a Panasonic capacitor (SPU25X156AQSA... 250 VAC, 15 µF) to put across the phases.
The ACT filter could help... it looks like there is a 22µF cap across the power line. It does not appear to attenuate the UPB signal much in my limited test.
There is also a company called Filter Concepts that specializes in filters. They sell a "Home Automation" filter. I don't know that much about it yet but I bet it is designed for X10.
If you are certain the noise is coming from outside the house... I have a similar issue at night in my house... I have noise that keeps a switch in my kitchen from controlling the rest of the kitchen lights... but my timer (Model UCS-01) gets through to turn off the lights. There has been a lot of work going on to combat noise. The problem is characterizing the noise... and the trade offs when adjusting for any particular noise. Anyway, if the noise is on both phases, and not bleeding over from one phase to the other, a non-inverting phase coupler or two can help attenuate that noise. Noise that interrupts UPB is in the UPB range and has an amplitude large enough to interfere or saturate the receivers. If it is attenuated (the amplitude lowered) UPB can go through it. We (Simply Automated) are currently selling only inverting phase couplers. PCS and HAI sell the non-inverting phase couplers... or you can get a Panasonic capacitor (SPU25X156AQSA... 250 VAC, 15 µF) to put across the phases.
The ACT filter could help... it looks like there is a 22µF cap across the power line. It does not appear to attenuate the UPB signal much in my limited test.
There is also a company called Filter Concepts that specializes in filters. They sell a "Home Automation" filter. I don't know that much about it yet but I bet it is designed for X10.
Is this noise worse in damp or rainy weather or snow? If it is try this...
Here's a little different approach that you can try to spot the interference if its outside the house but relatively close(and maybe the power company could fix), is just take small AM radio, "tune around" to see if you can hear a loud noise source(HV electrical "leaks" do generate a lot of "broadband' noise), and walk around a bit, chances are if it is something arcing, you may be able to figure out where it is.
Here's a little different approach that you can try to spot the interference if its outside the house but relatively close(and maybe the power company could fix), is just take small AM radio, "tune around" to see if you can hear a loud noise source(HV electrical "leaks" do generate a lot of "broadband' noise), and walk around a bit, chances are if it is something arcing, you may be able to figure out where it is.
i know there is more work required on my part to get the noise characterized better. how do i tell what plugs are on different phases so i can test to see the the noise is on both? what kind of radio would i need to hear the arcing noise? what would it sound like? it has been awfully rainy here the past month or so, so i guess that could be it.
Steve
Senior Member
The quick answer is first you need to have a circuit layout - know what switches and outlets are on different circuits. Each circuit can be defined as all those devices on an individual breaker. In most cases the breakers in your panel are arranged in staggered fashion. So say the top left breaker is on Phase A, then the next one down would be Phase B, then third is Phase A again, etc. This applies to single wide breakers supplying 110V. A double wide breaker with 2 wires on it is 220V and is attached to BOTH phases (110V each). So just alternated each individual slot all the way down and on both sides and just remember the double wides are both phases on the 1 breaker. You can probably located the manual for your exact panel online if needed. Hope that makes some sense...
WayneW
Senior Member
If you don't already have a good list of what lights and outlets are on which circuit breaker, I would start there. Then, using Steve's instructions, you can make a list of what is on what leg.
Home Depot and Lowes have similar devices (but they make it hard to link).
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-hi-tech-circ...pi-1814337.html
or you can do it the old fashioned way with a loud radio and flipping circuits over & over.
Home Depot and Lowes have similar devices (but they make it hard to link).
http://www.acehardware.com/sm-hi-tech-circ...pi-1814337.html
or you can do it the old fashioned way with a loud radio and flipping circuits over & over.
Just a small portable AM radio, pocket sized, or anything with an AM/FM tuner in it. As far as the "noise" thats hard to characterize, but would probably be a "ragged" sound rather than just a "hum". It could be continuous or intermittent too, so if you can "hear" something that is intermittent, chances are your UPB will work OK when you aren't picking up a "noise" signal. I've had similar problems with X-10, but have since gone over to Z-Wave.
Good luck,
Mike
Good luck,
Mike
Finding the phases that each device is on is easy. Fire up UPStart, and run a network test. Under phase, an S means the Same Phase as the Computer Interface, an O means the "other" phase. Typically the signal levels that you will see will be lower for the other phase than the same phase.
You can also perform a test over a longer period, like 24 hours. UPStart will record the noise and signal at each device. You can find out a whole lot about your network with just this tool.
You can also perform a test over a longer period, like 24 hours. UPStart will record the noise and signal at each device. You can find out a whole lot about your network with just this tool.
I myself have a 95% UPB House. My problem is similiar to yours. 1 leg (of the 2 leg power) contains 100% noise at night and some parts of the day. Using my Simply Automated Pocket programmer, I'm able to clip staight onto the power leg with the 200A breaker off, and SEE that noise coming in from the power company. My electrian says that it's the Light on the pole across the street that is definately causing this noise. Until they come out, I popped every breaker with UPB onto the clean leg and I'm 100% error free and consistent with the technology. Brad from SA is your best bet for an upcoming line filter.
-=*Sharby*=-
